My Mazda Dealer sucks

[coldoath]

Well, that doesn't make it impossible, that makes it out of your price range. Besides, there's plenty of kids out there modding modern vehicles on a budget. You don't need the same equipment that the dealer has, a laptop and proper interface can do the job.

Ok, if I have a problem and I have to have a certain tool to fix this problem, but I can't afford the tool it therefore makes it impossible for me to fix the problem. Now perhaps it's not impossible for somebody who has butt loads of money to throw at diagnostic machines and such, but I would say at that point I'd be willing to pay $90/hr to get it fixed. It goes beyond just needing modern equipment when having to work on brand new cars. They have started to tie everything together, especially with the new ford sync. New cars also do a hella lot more calculations when they are running down the road. Most new cars are trying to get you the best MPG so they adjust numerous things all the time i.e. they shut off two of you cylinders. BTW have fun working on one of those cars in your garage when the engine management system starts messing up.

Base point being that an older car is easier to diagnose, fix, and is generally cheaper. Cheaper because said vehicle has been in production longer so there are a nice collection to pick and pull from in the junk yard, the after market has had time to develop, better established user base, and replacement parts in general tend to be cheaper.

Personally I don't like new cars cause I think they look like ass. I would prefer to have a car that not ever soccer mom in America has. Would be nice to have a Nissan Skyline(not a new GT-R), Nissan Sylvia, Foxbody, or pretty much just any old school car.

 

[tbburg]

Every manufacturer has the problem of bad dealerships/service. Hell, look how many members here love Jeeps and won't go anywhere near their local Jeep dealership. I'm not too hot on the Mazda products(I do like the 1st gen Miata,..)but I do like that Mazda is big into racing.

Sorry to hear about your problems with the local punks bigalpha. Any chance you have another dealer close enough to go to? It won't solve your personal issue, but letting management know you're spending money somewhere else, recommending the same to all your friends and telling them exactly why might help the situation for someone else.

 

[bjoehandley]

i do remember that one, all car company's have there problems it all starts somewhere down the where some kid straight out of school who has never touched a car says "hey we can save a couple bucks by making this part cheaper" and everybodys like give that kid a raise. 10 years later bam axles are falling out and frames are rusting in half

Seems more like it's the accountants what want to make things as cheaply as possible and/or figure it's cheaper to pay off victims of their "re-engineering" attempts than build things correctly. Just look at the Pinto and how much chit that caused Ford because the accountants cheaped out on that thing.

If you look at the rear beam on a windstar you can tell it's a bad design.

Lets see, inverted U with channels to catch and hold water/road salt: Check

Lightening holes to let water/road salt in: Check

Metal made as thinly as possible to save a few bucks: Check

I don't know why Ford felt the need to re-invent the beam axle. Chrysler's been using the same tube with knuckles welded to it for a long time. They should have just copied it.

Exactly how is it shaped? If it's a U design with the open portion facing down, you should be ok since water and salt can't collect in them as easily as it could those channels were facing upwards towards the floor. Both of the "K-Cars" I had used that design and rust out wasn't a problem with the axles with those even though both cars spent plenty of time in the Chicago area prior to the Windstar/Freestar platform being released. Now if Ford cheaped out in what alloys and metal thicknesses they used, well that's their own damn fault.

 

[RNMedic]

no happy about the repair frustrated with the lack of preparation by Ford and I"ll have him check on the front subframe

those axles are starting to come in already but there about 2-3 months behind, the rental company's are handing out what they have (ford cant do anything about that) besides would you want your son and 4 grand kids in the van while driving 70 down the interstate to crash and burn cause the rear end fell out and they went spinning out of control , BTW the front sub-frame has a recall also might want to have him call his dealer and make sure there checking that also

 

[Jeepman401]

Would you prefer that they let it slide until they were ready to take care of all the recalls? At least they acknowledge there is a problem, and are working to fix it. They could have taken to toyota approach, and waited until it was all over the news before saying maybe we have a problem.

 

[stumpXJ]

Ford isn't the only one with issues, remember the Toyota Tacma buyback because the frames rusted in half?

I do, unfortunately, thats why im here... RIP taco!

On the same note, I have had the absolute best luck with Mazdas, I have had a Mazda 3 hatch, Mazda b2300 Pickup, and now a Mazda 5. All great vehicles over the years. Its so hit or miss with the vehicle itself, and of course with the dealership... Id also buy another Tacoma without a second thought, once I checked out the frame.

I miss my Taco every time I drive my Cherokee.

Darky, I have driven a friends MazdaSpeed3. It was a friggin blast. My wife had a Subaru WRX at the time, and I would easily take the Speed 3 over it.

Either way, sorry bout your dealership experience. They seem to be a few fries short of a happy meal. Got another close by?

~ Stump

 

[bigalpha]

Update:

1. apparently, their report printed wrong and the trans fluid isn't leaking, it's just dirty. This isn't the first time their printed report has been wrong. I always point it out and make the service manager change it and put his signature on it. I refuse to have an incorrect report void my warranty in case something happens.

2. The coolant was just a little dirty and they always recommend it be replaced when dirty; even though it's a 60,000 mile coolant (for the first change). WTF? I can't believe they would - I bet some people always take dealer advice, too. He told me it would be perfectly fine to run.

tbburg - Not really - especially since we have to drop it off for oil changes and such. Doesn't make it convenient to drive 30 minutes one way to the next dealer.

Not to mention, I'm super critical of everything do; both the body shop and the service department. I figure they'd have already put a note in my file to stop jerking me around and get it right.

 

[Darky]

Would be nice to have a Nissan Skyline(not a new GT-R), Nissan Sylvia, Foxbody, or pretty much just any old school car.

You realize the Sylvia is just a 180SX or 240SX, depending on year and engine, right? Buy a 98 240Sx, swap in an SR20DET and have a Sylvia in America. 98 is just cause I like that body style.

tbburg - Not really - especially since we have to drop it off for oil changes and such. Doesn't make it convenient to drive 30 minutes one way to the next dealer.

Oh the joys of living in civilization...it'd be 30-40 minutes to the nearest Ford dealer, hour and a half almost to the nearest Mazda dealer from here.

 

[bigalpha]

And if you had a MS3, you can only get it serviced at dealers who are "authorized" to work on them. My local one wasn't one when i bought my M3.

 

[coldoath]

You realize the Sylvia is just a 180SX or 240SX, depending on year and engine, right? Buy a 98 240Sx, swap in an SR20DET and have a Sylvia in America. 98 is just cause I like that body style.

Yes, but I would rather have the real thing rather than buy a 240sx, swap the engine, swap the interior and convert to RHD.

 

[Darky]

Why RHD, seems to me that'd get irritating. From my limited experience, the interiors aren't that different aside from the RHD vs LHD thing. One of my buddies had an S13 on Okinawa, fun little car. His was the 180SX version.

 

[87manche]

I still don't see the argument. If I followed the FSM for my XJ using only the tools and methods they use then I would be out of luck doing my own work. Dealers have the best of the best equipment(or they should) that does not mean you need it to do the work. Your claim of it being impossible to work on modern cars is just false. It may not be easy for people used to working on older vehicles yes, but that makes it out of the ability/price range for those people.

You mention ABS scan tools, the first result on google brought me this.
Yep, and not one of those will work for a hona, except the one that was discontinued, and when they did sell it it was $1500. Seems that these can scan modern ABS for far less than the 25k you said. Searching just for a honda SRS tool brings a lot of these.And that one is $600, how is that affordable to the home mechanic? It says it works with the OEM-Honda Diagnostic Software, does it come with the software? It's a bit ambiguous, but I'm guessing that the CD-R with the sharpie labeling pictured is NOT the OEM HDS software. I'm no honda guy but it seems scan tools are certainly out there for cheap. A lot of searches showed forum threads talking about using paper clips to see the trouble codes.

Forgot the paper clip link, maybe this would have showed your seat belt issue.
THe newer generation Hondas this will only reset the light, it will not show error codes without the diagnostic computer, period.

Let's face it, the manufacturers are intentionally locking people out of the systems in vehicles. For more than one reason.
Firstly is they have a ton of money invested in R+D that they want to protect.
Secondly they have a dealer network they have to answer too, and dealerships like to make money. They especially like to make easy money, like $80 for plugging in their fancy diagnostic computer.

Exactly how is it shaped? If it's a U design with the open portion facing down, you should be ok since water and salt can't collect in them as easily as it could those channels were facing upwards towards the floor.

It is u-shaped, and the u faces down, but they used a u made of sheetmetal, rather than a single solid 1/4" thick piece. So to make up for the lack of material they used gussets and welded in braces underneath.
Here's some good pictures. You can see on the bottom where crap will get up in there and accumulate around the reinforcements where the knuckle attaches.
http://www.fordforumsonline.com/forum/ford-windstar/1817-2000-ford-windstar-rear-axle.html

Edit: I mis spoke about the ABS computer up above, it is still available, but the link from the website provided lists it at $1700. Real affordable for the shadetree mechanic

 

[casm]

Why RHD, seems to me that'd get irritating. From my limited experience, the interiors aren't that different aside from the RHD vs LHD thing.

From driving RHD cars in LHD countries and vice-versa, I've got to say that the appeal is pretty limited after living with it for a while. It's fine right up until the point where you have to overtake another vehicle and suddenly realise that you're having to pull out about 80% farther into oncoming traffic to see around whatever it is that you're trying to get past. Having oncoming traffic flash their high beams at you at night because your lights dip to the wrong side also gets tedious quickly.

Granted, being able to park at the kerb and exit from the driver's side directly onto the sidewalk is kinda convenient, but... Ehh. Not worth the tradeoffs of having the steering on the wrong side on a daily basis.

FWIW, my folks had a couple of RHD Hondas (Civics) that had directly-equivalent models in the US. There's nothing really special about the interior other than where the driver sits.

 

[iwannadie]

Let's face it, the manufacturers are intentionally locking people out of the systems in vehicles. For more than one reason.
Firstly is they have a ton of money invested in R+D that they want to protect.
Secondly they have a dealer network they have to answer too, and dealerships like to make money. They especially like to make easy money, like $80 for plugging in their fancy diagnostic computer.


It is u-shaped, and the u faces down, but they used a u made of sheetmetal, rather than a single solid 1/4" thick piece. So to make up for the lack of material they used gussets and welded in braces underneath.
Here's some good pictures. You can see on the bottom where crap will get up in there and accumulate around the reinforcements where the knuckle attaches.
http://www.fordforumsonline.com/forum/ford-windstar/1817-2000-ford-windstar-rear-axle.html

Edit: I mis spoke about the ABS computer up above, it is still available, but the link from the website provided lists it at $1700. Real affordable for the shadetree mechanic

$600 is a far cry from the $25k you originally complained about. If you can't afford the tools needed that's too bad I guess. For those that can afford it they certainly can work on modern cars just fine was the point being made. You made the blanket statement they are impossible to work on, I still stand by that as not being true but oh well.

 

[iwannadie]

From driving RHD cars in LHD countries and vice-versa, I've got to say that the appeal is pretty limited after living with it for a while. It's fine right up until the point where you have to overtake another vehicle and suddenly realise that you're having to pull out about 80% farther into oncoming traffic to see around whatever it is that you're trying to get past. Having oncoming traffic flash their high beams at you at night because your lights dip to the wrong side also gets tedious quickly.

Granted, being able to park at the kerb and exit from the driver's side directly onto the sidewalk is kinda convenient, but... Ehh. Not worth the tradeoffs of having the steering on the wrong side on a daily basis.

FWIW, my folks had a couple of RHD Hondas (Civics) that had directly-equivalent models in the US. There's nothing really special about the interior other than where the driver sits.

I've never driven a RHD before but I've herd the same complaint about passing someone being the big issue. Can't you just look around from the other side? I mean when sitting in the passenger seat I can see pretty good around the car in front of me to not worry about being unable to see on coming cars. You would have a limited blind spot that any on coming car wouldn't hide in.

Again, just asking as I've never driven a RHD.

Oh and the headlights can just be replaced with new housings I'd imagine no issue there?

 

[casm]

I've never driven a RHD before but I've herd the same complaint about passing someone being the big issue. Can't you just look around from the other side?

Not without moving towards the shoulder, but it'd be a bad idea to try it even if you have the room to: you'll end up with a blind spot between the front of the vehicle you're following and the left-hand passenger window of whatever you're driving (assuming you're driving a RHD vehicle in a LHD country). The problem is substantially worse if you're following something like a semi, bus, or even just a tall SUV.

I mean when sitting in the passenger seat I can see pretty good around the car in front of me to not worry about being unable to see on coming cars. You would have a limited blind spot that any on coming car wouldn't hide in.

It sounds like it would work like that, but in practice it doesn't quite shake out that way; basically, all it really does is trade one set of problems for another. Having said that, I have used my front seat passenger to give me the OK for overtaking when driving a car with the steering on the opposite side of normal.

Oh and the headlights can just be replaced with new housings I'd imagine no issue there?

You can do that, but the usual temporary solution (normally used when travelling from a RHD or LHD country to one that steers on the opposite side) is to affix stickers to the headlamp lenses that changes the cutoff pattern. The ones I used to see were just flat black, but it looks like they're now getting all high-tech and refractive (see here for an example).

 

[Darky]

$600 is a far cry from the $25k you originally complained about. If you can't afford the tools needed that's too bad I guess. For those that can afford it they certainly can work on modern cars just fine was the point being made. You made the blanket statement they are impossible to work on, I still stand by that as not being true but oh well.

I think you mistook his generalization for a literal statement. For the average home mechanic, a $600 scanner is above our price range when we could be spending that money on other tools, parts, upgrades, beer, etc.

Would you argue about my claiming it to be impossible to work on the shuttle? Sure, it can be done, but it's beyond the realm of most people out there.

 

[bjoehandley]

It is u-shaped, and the u faces down, but they used a u made of sheetmetal, rather than a single solid 1/4" thick piece. So to make up for the lack of material they used gussets and welded in braces underneath.
Here's some good pictures. You can see on the bottom where crap will get up in there and accumulate around the reinforcements where the knuckle attaches.
http://www.fordforumsonline.com/forum/ford-windstar/1817-2000-ford-windstar-rear-axle.html

Edit: I mis spoke about the ABS computer up above, it is still available, but the link from the website provided lists it at $1700. Real affordable for the shadetree mechanic

Damn, those were a pretty bad design! The ones on my Lebaron and Shadow were made from a much thicker metal!

 

[coldoath]

Would you argue about my claiming it to be impossible to work on the shuttle? Sure, it can be done, but it's beyond the realm of most people out there.

Bahaha. Funny, yet it is actually a good example, albeit it is an extreme example. As cars become more technologically advanced the computer systems that control these cars also become more sophisticated and begin to take over more than just the usual task of sitting there throwing codes and changing a few minor things. Then to be able to work on all these new sophisticated interconnected systems you need training, which is what all the techs at the dealership go through. So like the shuttle, you need training i.e. a degree(s) and who knows what else to work on the shuttle.

 

[Alienspecimen]

I want a 2007ish Mazdaspeed 3. Or 6. Either would be hilariously fun to drive.

I dont know about Mazdaspeed3, but dont think that there would be really that big of a difference.

My wife replaced this car http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1055029 with a Mazda 3. I consider it VW wanna be...there is some resemblance there, I admit, but is a dulled down boring version of the VW.

To be honest, sometimes when I get in it, it feels more like getting into an Accord or Camry than a sporty compact.

YMMV

Boris