Long Arm Upgrade teraflex vs rock krawler

[Wil Badger]

so you're going to tell me that this pic



is of the Gen2 or 3 what ever they are on now.if it is then they are still using some of the crappiest bracketry out there next to Teraflex

 

[ROCKREADYXJ]

so you're going to tell me that this pic



is of the Gen2 or 3 what ever they are on now.if it is then they are still using some of the crappiest bracketry out there next to Teraflex

That is the Gen II kit that everyone is loving. Except for the Krawler Joints on that kit they have the 3/4 shank the new ones come with the 1 inch shank.

Whats the Beef with the brackets? I ran NEUROC 2 years with the same brackets except with thier rear coilover kit. It is all still in working order.

 

[Wil Badger]

no thanks .i'll stick to something more intigrated to the frame and belly pan.i'm not about to trust two bolts placed through sheet metal to hold my axle on.i mean you can bash Rustys all you want but atleast he is smart enough to use an intigrated belly pan that clamps the entire frame rail on both sides.sure it hangs down a bit more and kills ground clearance a bit but i knew it wasn't going anywere.

hey more to ya if you run it and like it.i don't and i'm allowed to voice my opinion last i checked.you are well with in your rights to question why i don't like it but again its always going to come down to a matter of opinion.

 

[herreraxto]

Everybody is talking about the different arms setups y-link, radius arms, 4 links, 3 links, but on my own judgment i am more convinced to go whit RK 3-link and if I you don’t feel secure enough you can still get the 4th arm the benefits that I see on this first of all is the price (still a student) and there is not limitation of flex like y-link and radius arms, the only thing is the belly pan

 

[GirlScout1]

Wil- the LCA brackets aren't just held with 2 bolt's. They are meant to be welded on as well. I guess you could just bolt them but I wouldn't.

 

[Wil Badger]

ok so they are welded and bolted to a piece of sheet metal no thicker then 14 gauge steel.thats like saying you wouldn't mind taking your fender folding it over to double it then using that material for your brackets to hold on the axle.sure your RK bracket might be 3/16 or 1/4 but it all about what that is being attached to .

like i said before i'll take a belly pan combination that spreads the load out over as much of the frame as possible.look around at the three links that were made by the people here they almost all used a combined belly pan for the frame side mounts.

 

[GirlScout1]

I see your point Wil but I do run the RK set and have had no problems with it just like many others. The stock setup brackets are more flimsy and many run those with no problems. I would be more worried about ripping off an LCA mount from the axle which is the same thickness as the uni-body. That's where most people ignore. To me that's the part I want beefed up. Or even the pass. side UCA which is worse. All your stress will exploit the weakest point no matter where it is.

-b

 

[ROCKREADYXJ]

no thanks .i'll stick to something more intigrated to the frame and belly pan.i'm not about to trust two bolts placed through sheet metal to hold my axle on.i mean you can bash Rustys all you want but atleast he is smart enough to use an intigrated belly pan that clamps the entire frame rail on both sides.sure it hangs down a bit more and kills ground clearance a bit but i knew it wasn't going anywere.

hey more to ya if you run it and like it.i don't and i'm allowed to voice my opinion last i checked.you are well with in your rights to question why i don't like it but again its always going to come down to a matter of opinion.

Now wil do you really think those two bolt hold the control arm on? come on you seem smarter than that. those get welded along the (semi) frame rail on the XJ. the bolt holes are for alignment purposes.

So how did you atach yours to the frame?(pictures)

I went back to the begining and read some more. You think that the 3 link gives you too much articulation? and that is bad? if you want less articulation then run limiting straps with the kit. The Idea of the kit is to give you limitless travel without binding. The raduis arm designs binds up while articulating those little tourque arms are fighting each other constanly. I don't think you can argue with that.


you later went on to explain that the radius arm kits use the stock bushings to help counter the torsional force that the radius arm kits encounter while flexing. Knowing this information why would you build/copy a suspension that flaws to begin with and not inprove upon them you talk about what wrong with everything but have no answers to fix any of it. eliminate the binding and you will get a kit that flexes easier and does not wear out components from the design.

I personally like the RK kit and then the Full traction I think they are both well thought out kits and far better technology designs than the radius arm design that everyone likes to copy. If you are that uncomfortable with three arms then why do you look at it another way when you really think about it you only have 2 arms just like the ford engineers used. The original design two mounting points on the frame and a large diamond shaped bushing on the axle on each side. You have the same two mounting points on the frame and are atache to the axle on each side.So if one of your arm falls off all you have is one. But with the RK there are three attachment points to the body of the vehicle. and the FT there is four.

I am not trying to convince you to buy one just pointing out the common misconceptions that most people have toward it. You were sold on not getting one just because there was only three arms. You continue to bash the kit and have never even driven in one. I am sorry that the mere thought of three arms agravates you so much that you feel compeled to bash it every time you read about it. When offering your negativity try to be a little more fair on what you judge. Does it really bother you that people want something different that what you have?

Remember theese arm my opinions and view. I am just commenting on what you wrote.

 

[Wil Badger]

i'm not some much bashing RK but the design used and the way it is implimented.i know a radius arm design has bind and i said that.i have no problem saying it does.i used radius arms because the amount of flex i needed was well with in the range of the design i used.it makes thing easy and quick while still working and stable.when i redid the front it was only because the rusty arms were worn out.they were worn out because of the thread stock they used on the frame side.the only thing i bash as you say i'm doing is really the way they have their three link it just allows the axle to twist on the passenger side.i actually like the Full Traction kit and thats the kit i was shooting for before i went with Rustys.i went with Rustys because at the time FT was months out on getting the 6 inch kit done.

now as to how i attached my arms

while being made
its a modified Rustys crossmember

which uses the outer plate along with matching inner plate and anti-crush sleeves.the crossmember then bolts to this.

as far as the RK being welded as well hey you never know have you taken a good look at TeraFlexs kit.their brackets aren't much more then that and they use frigin small bolts to hold it on

again no thanks not with a frame made out of paper.

 

[GirlScout1]

Looks like that is mounted using the T case bolts (like the RK kit) then welded (again like RK). Though there is less welded are than the RK kit and all your stress is put on 2 locations. Not to mention you run the stress of the t case and suspension to the same place. Nice modification though! I like what you have done with it.

 

[Wil Badger]

as to how to make a raduis arm flex more thats easy and there is a kit out there to modify the ford radius arm .it is a kit that sleeves the axle on one side to allow the axle to spin inside the sleeve freeing it of the bind.at least if you did that it is still fixing the axle top to bottom and front to back but it will still aloow the axle to spin or twist under hard load on the that side it was fitted to.of course the thicker and larger the tubes on the axle the less twist in the axle .but on a stock 30 it just twists like a champ.

with the RK kit the top side of the passenger axle is allowed to roll forward or backward depending on load given in each direction.you can't so much feel this happening from the drivers seat but it is happening none the less.under hard acceleration the axle wants to twist forward under hard braking the axle wants to twist backward.it physics theres no getting out of .there is no arm on the upper passenger side and with out some kind of crazy truss to stiff the axle and prevent axle twist its going to happen.i would rather fight the twist when i had to then let it just happen when i didn't want it to

 

[Wil Badger]

Looks like that is mounted using the T case bolts (like the RK kit) then welded (again like RK). Though there is less welded are than the RK kit and all your stress is put on 2 locations. Not to mention you run the stress of the t case and suspension to the same place. Nice modification though! I like what you have done with it.

i understand this but its the fact that this load is spread over a 12 inch area .the crossmember is also pinned in between two plates the bolts just hold it from shifting for the most part.

 

[Mike L]

as to how to make a raduis arm flex more thats easy and there is a kit out there to modify the ford radius arm .it is a kit that sleeves the axle on one side to allow the axle to spin inside the sleeve freeing it of the bind.at least if you did that it is still fixing the axle top to bottom and front to back but it will still aloow the axle to spin or twist under hard load on the that side it was fitted to.of course the thicker and larger the tubes on the axle the less twist in the axle .but on a stock 30 it just twists like a champ.

with the RK kit the top side of the passenger axle is allowed to roll forward or backward depending on load given in each direction.you can't so much feel this happening from the drivers seat but it is happening none the less.under hard acceleration the axle wants to twist forward under hard braking the axle wants to twist backward.it physics theres no getting out of .there is no arm on the upper passenger side and with out some kind of crazy truss to stiff the axle and prevent axle twist its going to happen.i would rather fight the twist when i had to then let it just happen when i didn't want it to

Is your natural hate of the three link also toward the URF hidden 3-link on both CRASH' and Jes' rigs? Or is it just against RK?

-Mike

 

[Wil Badger]

as i said more towards just RK's kit becasue of how they implement it.i haven't seen this other kit that you speak of so i don't know.it really comes down the the 30 not being able to handle being controlled from the drivers side alone .if you are running a 44 you are doing better ,a 60 nothing to really worry about other then the weight of the thing ripping the mounts off the frame.

edit ok i went and searched for it.i saw a pic and from that one i have saw and from what i remember the crossmember was pretty well attached at the frame.it has all the mounts on something other than tin.

i just don't like three links with the Dana 30 axle pretty much.i have seen enough of the RK kit in action to know i don't want it if other do great.


ok i'm done with RK conversations .its seems people ask for opinions ,you give one then you have to spend 3 pages trying to explain why you don't .its a matter of opinion thats all. i have explained why in three seperate threads in this forum alone from what i can remember

 

[GirlScout1]

Everything on an XJ, no matter how you attach it or who makes it has the same flaw...the uni-body. Every system out there will bind, stress, twist or some other thing to where it mounts to the body. Again, the axle mounts are the part that worries me. I see it as you create your own failure. If you are running 35s on a D 30 locked and just mashing the gas and bouncing it, you will break anything. Nothing is bullet proof and even the $150k buggies fail no matter what they run.

For me running 32s and taking it easy I HIGHLY doubt I will destroy the RK kit. Wrap or not. They ALL have their problems! I would not run Rusty's, but thats me. I have seen a couple thread of people breaking them and I just flat out won't run his stuff anymore for my dealings with his products and lack of support. Everything I have got from him has been 2+ weeks late, and had defects or broke within the first month. It's all crap to me.

On the other hand I have had no problems with my RK kit and great service from them. I would run it again. You say your not bashing it but go back and look through your posts here and you will see you are. Maybe you aren't saying RK sucks flat out but you keep saying the 'design' is flawed...they all are.

If you want good reliable mounts, get something with a frame like a Tj or the Fords you keep mentioning.

 

[GirlScout1]

Wil, you turned it into a closed mind bashing of the RK.

 

[mack]

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[matt6669]

"they are both total crap"
I don't know that to me sure sounds like you are bashing rk. But it might just be me.

Wow this thread has taken off since the last time i checked it out.

I forget who said it, but im going to agree. No matter how you look at it, every kit is being bolted to sheet metal. Theres no way around it on an xj. Now you say that being intergrated into a belly pan would be better because it would spread the force out. So lets think, you save all this money by buying a rk kit, so you buy a rk skid plate as well.

Now though the mounts arn't welded to the skid plate, they are just bolted in the same exact position. So now since they are one unit acting as one, its technially as strong as your belly pan setup. Because now since they are bolted together they will translet the force through the skit plate to the other side. In theory i think im correct, but im no physics freak so if im wrong someone please correct me.

Now i would like rock krawler to make an integrated belly pan with mounts, but i havn't really looked at the possibilities. Just from looking at wil's truck the only way to do it is having bent arms and im just not a fan of bent arms for some reason. I've also contemplated on rigging something up so that you can have one single arm in the middle but i don't know how that would work. There is deffinietly room for improvement in the rk's kit, but theres room for improvement in anyone's kit.

Now as far as trusting the lca bracket at the frame, i have yet to hear of anyone rip that off the frame. If it happens ill be sure to let you know and tell you that you were right, but i really don't see it happening. It's going to take a lot of force to rip that off the frame and if that much force is being applied, the lca mounts at the axle will give out before the ones at the frame do.

Matt

 

[mr4x4]

no thanks .i'll stick to something more intigrated to the frame and belly pan.i'm not about to trust two bolts placed through sheet metal to hold my axle on.i mean you can bash Rustys all you want but atleast he is smart enough to use an intigrated belly pan that clamps the entire frame rail on both sides.sure it hangs down a bit more and kills ground clearance a bit but i knew it wasn't going anywere.

hey more to ya if you run it and like it.i don't and i'm allowed to voice my opinion last i checked.you are well with in your rights to question why i don't like it but again its always going to come down to a matter of opinion.

you complain about something bolting up and welded up to the same place all ather kits bolt to along with your transmission and transfer case


ive been running rock krawler for 3 years no problems
every one that i notice complaining about rock krawler has not ever ran it
unless you count web 4x4

the same time i did my lift guy at work lifted his mall crawler with rubicon
express he has had to rebuilt a joint he has only went 4wheeling twice in three years
another friend lifted his with sky jacker and had to replace the cradle

 

[Wil Badger]

sorry but i use and abuse my Xj rather well .its not were the RK kit bolts/weld to its how .like i said in my post i just don't trust putting that bracket on the frame alone by itself with out having the load spread more by something bigger.the RK bracket could be fine if you plated the frame rail in the area in which it mounted to help beef it up.i'm been trying to drop this now for some time and let you guys win in your arguement.

you want me to say its the best kit in the world to get you to shut up and drop the subject .if you keep posting about what i have said i'm only oblidged to post again to defend myself and my opinion and thats all it is a opinion .get over it .is it killing you that much that i'm bad mouthing the suspension system you seem to love so much .christ get a life and move on already.