Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Hey Joel, I just read your thread over the last couple days. As everyone else said your attention to detail is amazing. I really appreciate all the thought and research you put into your projects. I can't wait to see what you come up with as an alternative to conventional frame stiffeners. Oh and those rx7 headers.... Droollllllll..... Damn! Impressive work!

I'm glad you kept going on the build thread. And congrats on the house!

My current jeep is my second jeep, and I've tried hard to put a lot of thought into it and try to do things right the first time.

Check it out and let me know what ya think if you got time.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1109586
 
He did some pretty sketchy things in that video, stitch welding the spacers, lengthening his tie rod by welding extra jam nuts, re-using the old style unit bearings and then adding spacers to the brake caliper brackets.
 
I'm not a welder or even a well-experienced amateur. Stitch welding seems to have the advantage that a single crack can't get very far, though, as it might with a full perimeter weld.
 
I agree on the stitch welding, as that's a similar technique I used. My idea was not to drive too much heat at a concentrated point.

But I also agree his method of using spacers on the caliper bracket is a little sketchy. But that's the problem you run into when using the 99 and older unit bearings. I don't have the measurement off hand, but I know the "00 and newer unit bearings are shorter.
 
I think the 00+ bearings are a 1.9" flange offset, the 90s bearings were 2.1" offset. Flange offset meaning knuckle mating surface to wheel mating surface.
For whatever reason, I had Sport Trac rotors on hand - and had to put 9/16" washers behind the rotor to get it spaced right. Shrug. WJ rotors (redrilled) + 2001 bearings seems the best way to go.
 
Back again...

A few months back I thought I had a rear brake leaking so I swapped the wheel cylinder a while back and cleaned everything. It reappeared and I finally figured out it was the axle seal no brake fluid. It just took a while to show up.

AxleLeak1.jpg


AxleLeak2.jpg


Anyways, you take a jeep with already marginal brakes, then lube up one of the rears so it's not doing much and everthing goes to crap on the binders.

After I almost rear ended someone in a panic stop a few weeks ago I decided that I just couldn't deal with the steering and brakes on my XJ anymore. At the same time, "hardcore" axles are outside my budget and/or desire to go crazy. Current goals:

-ZJ rear discs
-WJ steering
-Update trackbar/brackets (double shear was one of the first things ever mentioned)
-Add or swap a leaf to my rear to pick that up a hair.

I wend junkyarding last weekend during Ecology's 1/2 off sale (Victorville) and scored ZJ discs, plus leaves from an MJ. It looks like MJ main leaves are a little longer but since I only need a leaf or two from the set I firgured it'd give me options and they were 95% of the way out anyways.
VictorvilleEcology8.jpg


Apparently when you go junking in the desert, you find more rigs intended for desert use (duh, don't know why I didn't think about that before). What I didn't find was the WJ steering bits. Too new apparently. Junkyard report is here with a bunch of pictures of what's there as of a week ago. http://naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=246193540&postcount=580. There were a healthy stack of both XJs, ZJ's and the MJ noted above.

A couple questions:

-I forgot to grab the ZJ's prop valve. Anyone have one or going junking who could help me out? Anyone use an aftermarket adjustable prop valve?

-I have a coworker who's offering me D44/D30 conversion knuckles with high steer. Anyone used them or have thoughts on pros/cons? I'd like to find the better akebono calipers if I can. It looks like some of the deals on new/remanufacturered units aren't terrible.http://www.jcwhitney.com/powerstop-...78&c2cid=e388bbfd-3f29-45a4-a204-2164f54cbe2d

-What are my odds of my current 15" alloy wheels working with WJ steering?
 
A couple questions:

-I forgot to grab the ZJ's prop valve. Anyone have one or going junking who could help me out? Anyone use an aftermarket adjustable prop valve?

-I have a coworker who's offering me D44/D30 conversion knuckles with high steer. Anyone used them or have thoughts on pros/cons? I'd like to find the better akebono calipers if I can. It looks like some of the deals on new/remanufacturered units aren't terrible.http://www.jcwhitney.com/powerstop-...78&c2cid=e388bbfd-3f29-45a4-a204-2164f54cbe2d

-What are my odds of my current 15" alloy wheels working with WJ steering?

You can forget about the 15" alloys unless they have a stupid amount of offset. Others have done it with 15", but you have to shave the caliper and add wheel spacers, and even then they might not clear. You'll need at least 16" wheels. I'm running JK wheels with wheel adapters. Since I needed new tires anyway it worked out.

I'm also running the stock prop valve with the WJ brakes and rear disks. I haven't had any issues, and I had to mash the brakes once, she stopped with no issues. Others may advise to change it, but I haven't needed to.
 
You can forget about the 15" alloys unless they have a stupid amount of offset. Others have done it with 15", but you have to shave the caliper and add wheel spacers, and even then they might not clear. You'll need at least 16" wheels. I'm running JK wheels with wheel adapters. Since I needed new tires anyway it worked out.

I'm also running the stock prop valve with the WJ brakes and rear disks. I haven't had any issues, and I had to mash the brakes once, she stopped with no issues. Others may advise to change it, but I haven't needed to.

Thanks Brandon,

Sounds like I go ahead and do the ZJ rears sooner rather than later. I found a few more links if anyone else is planning the work and figured I'd post them up...

ZJ disks on XJ write up:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/zj-rear-disc-conversion-8-25-write-up-whole-truth-607435/
http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f51/rear-zj-disc-brakes-cherokee-xj-chrysler-8-25-a-57807/

ZJ prop valve info
http://go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoZJvalve.htm


Thanks also for confirming wheel size. I was kind of afraid of that. Pretty sure my 15x8 M/T sidebiters are the 3.625" backspacing version.

The steering still annoys me, so I expect I'll keep an eye out for a WJ. If I can't find one, I did discover that Rusty's has an all-in version that would give me the dual track bar mounting at the same time. Just the time saved in designing all that stuff is worth something to me and it looks pretty nice from what I can tell.
http://www.rustysoffroad.com/rustys-wj-steering-and-brake-conversion-xj-tj-zj.html.

There's a little commentary on the kit here:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1098880

-Joel
 
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Good to know. I had heard of people trying to run 15" wheels! but they had to shave the caliper and on hard turns the wheel contacted the TRE. But from that thread sounds like yours might work. I would try it and if all else fails, then you can buy new wheels. :cheers:
 
I was out junkyarding and scored the and had an opprotunity to grab a Grand Wagoneer D44 front axle (complete).

88waggy.jpg


I passed since I was out of time for the day but I could go back pretty easily. I was looking for some commentary on whether it would make sense to start over on my front axle.

My HPD30 is a 99 so it's a non-disco with the late model u-joints. The axle was gone through a few years ago when it was geared to 4:10s and had an aussie locker. New unit bearings etc. I've since trussed it so there's that.

If I did the upgrade, I'd be looking at:
-Low pinion D44 (coast side of the gears so maybe not that much stronger?)
-WJ knuckle swap may or may not work.
-Need to regear which means rebuild.
-Redo all bracketry and likely truss it.
-Need to redo a locker (would likely pick something other than the lunchbox).

I've done a bunch of reading on D44's and I'm not sure this is that much better, particularly given how much effort it is to redo. Is there anything different with the 88 waggy? Crash's epic write up only points to 80-86:
http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=52219

Opinons? If I don't pull the trigger I'm glad to offer a lead where this is sitting, but honest advise is appreciated.

-Joel

PS Waggy had a D44 rear as well, but someone had already grabbed the shafts.
 
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One more question: I didn't manage to get the ball joints on the WJ I was stealing parts from, but they felt fine. I can get them for $5 a piece at the junkyard, but I'm trying to figure out whether that's bad form. From what I've read I at least need the uppers.

Just trying to get my ducks in a row before I rip things apart.
 
I would wait for a ford hp44
 
following along...thanks for the write up

that waggy D44 seems like a lot of work for very little payoff? Doesn't seem like an upgrade, not to mention the time involved welding on link tabs on the new axle (and different bolt pattern than your rear axle I believe?) What is wrong with your D30 with the WJ upgrade? I see no mention of you rockcrawling and breaking axles? A properly upgraded D30 will take some abuse, and really only gets weak when you get stupid with it, and from your postings it doesn;t seem like that is your goal.
 
Jon and Ben,

Thanks for chiming in. You both confirmed the same conclusion I reached. The 99's already have the best of bread Cherokee axles (at least other than the unicorn D44 rear) so I decided the waggy wasn't worth it. It means I should grab some trail spares and be content with what I have. Since I decided to pass on the Waggy I posted up details in the SoCal "junkyard finds" thread to see if it can help someone else. It's over at the Anaheim pick-your-part BTW (an oil slick of a yard for sure).

You're probably right about me not getting that stupid anymore (mostly). These days the Jeep is serving daily driver status after I screwed up my RX7. That means I A) can't tear into the Jeep too far and B) I can't be doing things that risk breakage until the other is fixed.


Side story on the RX7 mishap, since what the hell, it's the internet and half of most builds is pure entertainment anyways:

I had just finished a stroker LS2 and it's awesome (guessing pretty close to 600 wheel).

Expansion9.jpg


The thing pulls as hard as any vehicle I've ever been in but I haven't gotten the traction control installed yet. I'm out on was date night with Mrs. Frijolee, we're driving to dinner in the 7, and I was just in process of telling her how stoked I was on the car. "It corners like a go-cart, it goes stink..." etc. Right as I mention the later, I stand on it in 3rd gear to demonstrate (the things we'll do for a pretty lady riding shotgun, right?). I'm doing 50-55 mph or so on a divided/elevated frontage road merge thing when I get on it. It proceeds to near instantly light up the tires (this is with 295s and taller than normal 3:55 gears mind you) but instead of staying straight the back end snaps sideways hard to the right. Not sure if it was because the road was a little off camber, dirty on one side or what.

It snaps back left and I do an involuntary lane change left, I'm counter steering the wheel for all I'm worth but can't save it. It's never bit me like this before.

The good news is that I manage to keep it straight enough that I avoid a K-rail on the left side (missed it by about 6 inches). The bad news is that the K-rail protected the elevated part of the road I'm on so just as I’m getting a handle on the fishtail I smack into a curb at a 45 degree angle and launch it off the side of the road, down about 3' to the lower lanes, and directly into oncoming traffic.


:wave:


We’re airborne, wife is screaming… I'm starring at not much but the ground on the road in front of me moment before I proceed to nose dive my way into the asphalt below. Miraculously no one hits us. It comes to rest. It's stalled and I'm now looking at the headlights of oncoming traffic (all of whom courteously have slowed to see what the hell is happening).

I try to start the car and it does, I suddenly envision myself explaining to the officer the exact circumstances upon which I lost control of the car and that's not a happy conversation with Johnny law. I flip a U-turn and start driving. No one hurt, no other parties involved, unknown damage but it's drive-able so I'm out, and at this point I don’t care if I’m on multiple flats...

Car starts heating up on the way home and I'm convinced I've blown my radiator (turned out to be a pinched sensor wire). Still it's only 5 minutes away so we get there without further incident and it doesn’t overheat. One headlight won't close, so I leave them both up and park the car. Climb in the Jeep and head back out on date night, both pretty shaken but no ill effects.

Dukes2.jpg


So yeah, that's my most recent "getting stupid" story and it kinda sucked so I'm taking it a little easy for a while.

I need to get the RX7 functional before I tackle big projects on the Jeep (ZJ rear disk brakes and WJ steering are likely going to squeak in under the "big project threshold). That said, before I can really work on the RX7 I have to get my garage usable (bought out first house and just finished building an attic storage area). And in the midst of all that, I'm a full time engineer lead with an intense job, I still want to be a good dad, and I run a business on the side selling RX7 parts (www.roninspeedworks.com).

Busy busy busy. I guess that's just life in your mid 30s. I will say I'm kind of beginning to understand the 40 year-old's mid life crisis where folks just want to blow a wad of money on something ridiculous and go nuts. As far as I can tell, it's a backlash of being too responsible in your 30s while lusting after your testosterone fueled 20s. I guess that's life too.

-Joel
 
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Sounds like you had a little too much fun haha. But hey if you're not having fun what's the point of having the car?

Also, my brother is big in the mazda speed community locally in Utah, and he also works at a mazda dealer at the parts counter. I'll forward him your website and let him know that you sell parts for RX7s since he runs into rx7 guys frequently. He can also get good deals on OEM stuff. :thumbup:
 
I took my girls out to King of the Hammers. Saw more nice XJ's than I can count running around and had a great time.

Before leaving, I did just a small modification on something that had been annoying me for a while, thought a few folks might be curious... Way back when I built my exhaust I had added a flex pipe to the cross over behind the oil pan.

5DSC_0531Custom.JPG


Well over time, that flex pipe began to droop a little bit. I've also had the exhaust installed and removed half a dozen times doing maintenance since (mostly smog stuff). It recently got to the point where it was rubbing on the BDS cross member which make for a some really annoying rattles.

I didn't want to risk trashing my exhaust work by banging on the cross bar repeatedly while romping through the desert so I decided to add a new hanger where there was none and thought I'd post a few pictures.

NewHanger1.jpg


It's a backer plate and topside hanger (both formed to match the tunnel). RTV to seal it in plus a spare rubber hanger which might have been from my RX7, not sure. I like stainless because you don't have to coat it to prevent rust. I build all my hangers from 3/8" pencil rod. Grab it in a big vice and you can beat things to shape. Heat from a torch makes things bend easier but isn't strictly required.

NewHanger2.jpg


During test fitting I realized that this was high enough on the tunnel that I had to drill the holes from the inside. I transferred the positions by measurement where I wanted vs. a few bumps and features on the tunnel. Went inside the rig and used a punch to mark where I thought I was (little dimple only). Then I climb back under the rig and if you're close you move that amount. IE my first hole actually wanted to be 1/4 over and 1/8 lower than my dimple check. Hose clamps work great to hold things in place while checking fitment.

Pro-tip: sand a flat spot in your bent hanger so it won't move during test fitting when held by clamp. I also used this last test fit to cut my mounting studs (welded in stainless button head) to a more exact length.

Once you're ready for install butter up the backing plate with RTV to hold and seal.

NewHanger3.jpg



Pull it home with the hardware and any extra RTV spooges out. This is about half the backing plate, the rest is hidden under the rubber mat.

NewHanger4.jpg



Wipe off the extra and you have your hanger.

NewHanger5.jpg


If it’s going to see bending than oversizing the backing plate in the direction of pull is a good idea (the topside in my case). I’ve used this technique for trans mounts and all kind of other structures as well, so long as the loads aren’t crazy.

Hey, a little RTV in the threads is kinda like a nyloc nut right?

NewHanger6.jpg



Once the topside hanger is done done done, you can do a final fit on the on the exhaust and burn that in too.

NewHanger7.jpg



And once again, I have happy exhaust clearance.

NewHanger8.jpg


The bad news… Looks like I have some floorboard cancer as well. At least I just was reading Adanymous’ build thread which has a nice to walk through for floorboard replacement. http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1117985

The other not so wonderful news: apparently the prep I should have been doing for KOH was dialing in my rear bump stops. My leaf springs have been sagging a bit after several rounds of wheeling. I do like going fast. I think I mentioned I’d bought some spare springs to add a leaf. Yeah, didn’t get those installed in time. I was romping through the desert with 5 of us and tools in the back and the rear shocks were bottoming out. Turns out it doesn’t like that.

KOHDamper1.jpg


KOHDamper2.jpg


Working theory is that the bracket went first and then the dangling shock hung up on a rock or something. Interestingly, it kind of makes sense that the passenger side broke. My pinion has been angled up to account for the CV shaft so the passenger shock had a little less travel and took the beating first. The bracket came off clean so it should be simple enough to burn back on. One more for the “to do” list.

-Joel
 
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