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Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Well, I've started answering my own questions above...

Q1) What rear axle to match a 35 spline D44 front?

Ford 9s seems like a really stellar axle: relatively light weight, high strength for the size (extra pinion bearing), tons of aftermarket support, etc. I ended up finding a decent deal on a Currie fabbed 9" that included with 35 spline axles, in a matching width (64") and a nice rear truss. It came with disk brakes, cable driven e-brakes, and was even the right lug pattern (Chevy Toyota 6 lug).

Ford9teaser1.JPG


Q2) Tire size, I think 35's are the place to be, likely with a 17" alloy bead lock. I've been reading a bunch about Staun's but I do like how traditional rings can be replaced once you rash them.

Q3) To link or not to link... Still looking for more opinions on this one. The perches on the 9 I just bought are a little narrow but I could mod that without too much difficulty.

New question: opinions on rear diffs. I have a TrueTrac back there now and I love it for street manners. I'm debating seriously sticking another one back there and they have 35 spline version that looks like it'd work. I know about the limits if you fully float a wheel but with OX front it seems like doing the drag the brakes trick once in a while isn't a big deal. Anyone else have experience wheeling on a TrueTrac?
 
IMO if you are going to bother spending any money on a carrier in the rear it should be an ARB.

also, my opinion on linking is that unless you raise the tank or go fuel cell and stretch the rear its really not worth it. especially on 35"s.
 
I agree 100% with everything rockclimber said!

Arb, and on top of what he said in regards to 'linking', imo there isn't enough room to take advantage of the suspension travel you will gain from links in the rear without chopping the rear and tubing in.

Fwiw, I have a linked Xj and a normal leaf sprung Xj. At the moment I prefer the leaf sprung rig, however I'm currently reworking the linked rig with ORI's and making a few other changes, so we will see.....

Just my .02
 
ARB has such amazing loyalty from the folks running them. They really must be doing something right... At the same time it kills me to add the complexity of on board air just for a single ARB (right now, I carry a tank to air back up). The simplicity of a cable actuation is part of why I was excited about the OX locker for the front. Problem is OX doesn't make lockers for the 9" (if they did I'd want one), I assume it has to do with the third member style rear end but I don't really know why.

If I was going to add on board air, it feels like I should sell the OX and do ARB's at both ends but now I'm kissing a large portion of the deals I got goodbye. Do the above recommendations still hold in the context of primarily a street rig? Unfortunately I think I do more hauling metal and plywood than I am wheeling these days... That said, I'm not exactly driving in constant snow or slippery stuff either where a Truetrac shines. Can either of you guys elaborate on the ARB recommendation?

The last wildcard with links is that I do keep thinking about the v8 swap and links are great for fighting axle wrap once there's some torque available. It almost feels like the compromises are harder for an all around vehicle than a purpose built rig.
 
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frijolee said:
If I was going to add on board air, it feels like I should sell the OX and do ARB's at both ends but now I'm kissing a large portion of the deals I got goodbye. Do the above recommendations still hold in the context of primarily a street rig? Unfortunately I think I do more hauling metal and plywood than I am wheeling these days... That said, I'm not exactly driving in constant snow or slippery stuff either where a Truetrac shines. Can either of you guys elaborate on the ARB recommendation?
Click to expand...

ARBs are not that complicated. Do the install right and you'll never sweat it.
Primarily a street rig? ARB is invisible on the street. Snow? Either locked for deep snow or open for sidehill traction.
Using the brakes to modulate the Truetrac is counterintuitive when you need momentum to power up steep loose hills - I've seen that firsthand with a local XJ'er who ditched his Truetrac for an ARB. ARBs have gone way up $$ from when I bought mine, but I'd do it again.
 
I'd have to agree with the statement(s) above.
I'd also say the ox is every bit as susceptible to 'issues' as the arb. Plenty of people have issues with the cable....

Arb's are just like anything else, ox included I'm sure. Do a half ass install (by install I mean plumbing/air lines) and your gonna have issues. I'd be willing to bet that 90%+ of the 'issues' you have heard about, or have thought about are directly related to plumbing.
Take your time and do it right, with a good air line, and protect it, you will have years of trouble free use.

And as stated above, especially since it's a mostly street rig, the arb imho is the way to go. Completely invisible, just like stock when it's off. Flip the switch and its 100% locked. What more could you ask for?

I would definitely not even consider keeping the spool. You will hate it!

I'm actually working on the very same thing you are right now myself. Hp Dana 44 front, and debating wether to build an Xj 44 for the rear (which I already have) or, spending a few hundred more and springing for a hp currie rock jock 60 for the rear.....
Regardless, fwiw, I'm running air (Yukon front and arb rear) even though it will pretty much be a dedicated trail rig, I like being able to unlock either end at will when I want/need too
 
Just another vote for ARB.

I had a True track in my 8.25, it came with my rig. Great for mild wheeling but was lacking for more than that. It slips and gives way too soon. Also, mine was only rated for up to 31s. Lastly, it is technically not a locker but limited slip. The gears bind on the wall of the carier and then slip and break free with too much force. This action causes wear and over time it becomes less effective. With 35s you will have a shortened lifespan.

When I put in my D44 and 8.8 I switched to ARB and have been very pleased. I was also worried about the air so I installed a ball valve at the manifold with a Shrader valve in the cab where I could use a hand pump to air up in a pinch. That and a hose patch kit will resolve all but an internal leak and a quality install should prevent that. (However I've never had a need for any of these impliments, it has been trouble free for over 6 years.)
 
Comparing a True-trac to an ARB is silly.

one is an LS designed for smaller tires and mild conditions. one is a full case locker designed for big tires and heavy abuse.

you are going through the trouble of putting a real axle in the jeep, you might as well put a real locker in it.

take it from someone who went through each phase of axles.

first I geared axles but didn't lock them (LS rear, open front)
then I only locked the front (LS rear, locked front)
then I locked both.

I was never happy with the capability of my jeep until I locked both. I cannot count the number of obstacles I didn't make it over or trails I didn't run because I was not locked in the rear.

I have never once wished I had an LS in the rear again.
 
Wanted to pause for a moment to revisit assumptions. I did pick up the third member I mentioned last night so I now have a spooled big bore third and I know I need to replace the spool with something. Basic types: Open, Spool, Auto Locker, LSD clutched, LSD geared, Selectable. Am I missing anything?

For the above the thought process goes:
-Not sure open diffs for 35 spline Ford 9s exist and if they do, I'd buy an LSD before I'd consider open.
-Spool, wrong for a street use. Out.
-Autolocker (Detriot/Grizzy). Cheap but don't want to live with the popping and banging unexpectely. Can also get you in trouble in icy conditions. LSD would get the nod first.
-LSD clutched. Pretty simple which generally means cheap, but between LSD types I think I'd rather have gears.

So that leaves me back where I started with only two types (geared LSD or selectable) and only three options I'm aware of. TrueTrac or Wavetrac for geared LSD, or jump in with both feet to the ARBs.

I get that the ARB would dramatically increase capability. But it also looks like it'll cost me +$1000 or more to get it done (cost delta in diffs plus on board air). That number climbs higher yet if I let my OCD for things done "right" loose and do ARB's at both ends. Assuming I did go kinds nuts I'm guessing it's $1300 more to do "right" and I could do bad ass air bumps on all four corners for the same amount if I can live with an LSD.

On the one hand, once you're $4-5k into axles whats another $1.3? On the other, I don't care how much axle and suspension I put under this, it's still an XJ which means it'll pretty much never be worth more than 10k. It seems that my choice is about to boil down to how much bang I want for how many bucks... Seem reasonable?

Just for the sake of argument does anyone have feedback on the WaveTrac? I have not been hearing great things about their strength but they do have a lifetime warranty and claim better performance in low grip scenarios. http://www.wavetrac.net/technical.htm

-Joel
 
Jbh97009 said:
I'm actually working on the very same thing you are right now myself. Hp Dana 44 front, and debating wether to build an Xj 44 for the rear (which I already have) or, spending a few hundred more and springing for a hp currie rock jock 60 for the rear.....
Regardless, fwiw, I'm running air (Yukon front and arb rear) even though it will pretty much be a dedicated trail rig, I like being able to unlock either end at will when I want/need too
Click to expand...

I looked at a few variations of HP rear. Issue seems to be that you give up ring strength driving on the coast side (front is opposite with the HP being drive side), both relative to forward motion. Biggest factor for me in choosing the Ford 9 was looking at really digging being able to drive faster through the desert and that meant keeping an eye on weight. I had a blast bombing from place to place at the last KoH.

G2WANIT said:
Just another vote for ARB.

I had a True track in my 8.25, it came with my rig. Great for mild wheeling but was lacking for more than that. It slips and gives way too soon. Also, mine was only rated for up to 31s.
Click to expand...

Do you have a source for tire size ratings? I can't seem to find anything readily available.

rockclimber said:
take it from someone who went through each phase of axles.
[...]

I was never happy with the capability of my jeep until I locked both. I cannot count the number of obstacles I didn't make it over or trails I didn't run because I was not locked in the rear.

I have never once wished I had an LS in the rear again.
Click to expand...

Appreciate the candid response. You guys have me convinced the ARB is a significantly better option, now it's mostly a question of whether it's enough of a better option to justify the cost. With two little girls at home I only get out for real wheeling a couple times a year but I'm trying to leave myself room to grow with the vehicle.
 
frijolee said:
I get that the ARB would dramatically increase capability. But it also looks like it'll cost me +$1000 or more to get it done (cost delta in diffs plus on board air). That number climbs higher yet if I let my OCD for things done "right" loose and do ARB's at both ends. Assuming I did go kinds nuts I'm guessing it's $1300 more to do "right" and I could do bad ass air bumps on all four corners for the same amount if I can live with an LSD.


-Joel
Click to expand...

Most vendors run a special when you buy an ARB you get the small compressor for free. I have the small compressor and it works great for the ARB, but I do not think I would be patient enough to try and air a tire up with it. If it were me, I would keep the OBA you have, and add the ARB compressor as a deticated compressor for the ARB. The small compressor fit nicely under my rear seat and it dampened the sound of the compressor pretty well.

As others have stated, I have had no issues with my air lines. I took my time with pluming it and for added protection, sleeved the line with rubber hose to prevent any chaffing.
 
X2 on having a small ARB compressor for just the arbs. Keep it separate and simple.

You really don't need to put arbs in both ends, a Detroit front/ARB rear is the popular combo. You really don't need to be selecting the front

As far as the cost being worth it: that's a decision you have to make yourself. I regret doing the setup twice.
 
Really appreciate all the chatter fellas. Some great tips in here. I have a bit of time to think this through but I'm leaning toward selling the OX and going ARB both ends. Just need to make sure the budget is in line. By the time I'm ready to pull the trigger I might be able to leverage a Black Friday deal. Anyone know if the ARBs typically go on sale?
 
sidewaysstarion said:
You should research the ARB for the 35 spline 9", on pirate there are quite a few people that have had issues with them failing.
Click to expand...

IIRC they suffered a similar issue to the original D30 locker, and a design change dealt with that.
 
Some fascinating reading on the Ford 9, 35 spline ARB failures. Thanks for the heads up Starion. The unit in question is ARB model RD99, by the way.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gene...-9-arb-35-spline-rd99-vs-31-spline-rd55b.html

Starts out with some pirate typically bashing, then suddenly, there's a massive jump in the quality of conversation starting in post #32 where the gent from Red Bull posts a huge email exhange with an ARB rep.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/10468208-post32.html

Later in the thread that same ARB rep jumps in for some direct commentary.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/10474037-post73.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/10478164-post88.html

The whole thing is well worth a read, and it makes me respect ARB more, not less. My key take away points:
  • The ID of the ring gear limits diff strength. Since the Ford 9 has a small ID, that combined with the large OD of the 35 spline internals make for some tricky compromises with this particular diff.
  • There are some distinct ways of wiring things up that improve flexibility of functionality (ref post 32).
  • Running the compressors at higher pressure will help avoid chipping (Some folks push 150 psi or more, I might do 130 or so)
  • Need to verify housings are straight and install is good.
  • ARB engagement teeth are a wear item, so unless you want to R&R your diff, it may be better to shop new than used.
  • So long as I avoid crash-lock, I should be fine and this unit has some serious R&D behind it.
 
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Getting back to the leafs vs. links discussion, I took a few shots of the current perch spacing:

Ford9teaser2.JPG


Ford9teaser3.JPG


Ford9teaser4.JPG


Diff lands in about the right spot but the perches are a little narrow. It doesn't look that difficult to address though.

-Joel
 
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