I've lost my mind.. or an MP90 on a stroker

[Talyn]

The equal length runners on the 99+ intake was done more to regain low end torque lost due to emissions. I'm not a fan of modifying the runners in this way, but I don't think it will be a problem. Look at the pre 99 manifold. Drastic differences in runner lengths, but no problems.

It has been my experience using the 99+ intake that the #1 and #6 cylinders run leaner judging from burn pattern on the cylinder head after removal. However, after removal of the excess casting around the injector bosses and balancing the flow on my current NA manifold the burn pattern looks even across all cylinders. If you look at the gasket side of the 99+ intake you will see what I am talking about. The injector castings grow from the ends to the center. Lee @ Hesco said that that was due to casting core shift. But it looks purposely done, but not sure why.

I'm not terribly interested in gaining low end torque as I already have enough of that. It would be interesting to see how this modified manifold fares on NA... I could make an adapter plate to bolt the TB onto the manifold, but its more time and money and I don't think it would show that much.

This is just one way of doing this, not the best. The best would be to have a custom intake manifold designed based on engine specs, super charger specs, etc, but that is easier said than done $$$$.

 

[bpas328xi]

Taking a break from the banter, the intake has been cut.

After a quick sandblasting clean up:
Its rough now and needs a lot of clean up before being welded up. Many hand grinding hours are anticipated.

Maybe I missed it... But how did you cut that thing open? Bandsaw?

Looking pretty good so far. Can't wait till it's finished.

 

[Talyn]

For those of you not keeping score the reason for the angle cut is to keep the SC snout low and avoid hood clearance problems. Same reason I don't have the HD brown dog mounts yet as they can lower the engine if necessary. Sure I could cut a hole in the hood for clearance if necessary, but I like the stock hood line and I already fool people with the pontiac hood vents.. most think they are stick on. When I had the body shop spray them they tried to tell me they wouldn't work.. they thought I was just going to stick them on.

 

[kastein]

Looks to me like it involved a big end mill and a manual 3ax milling machine, but I've been wrong before.

 

[Talyn]

LOL. You are correct. I'm not very good with an Etch A Sketch as you can see from the curves.

Ours is similar to this one, but not quite as clean.

 

[Luke95]

LOL. You are correct. I'm not very good with an Etch A Sketch as you can see from the curves.

Ours is similar to this one, but not quite as clean.

I run one of them fun stuff! :shhh:

 

[Talyn]

Since we are talking about equipment, this is what the various adapter plates will be cut on:

Its a different story with that one.

"You know I'm surgical with this bitch, Jake"

 

[kastein]

I'm officially jealous. I've been hoping to get a bridgeport sometime but I don't even know how the hell I'll get it into the basement if I do get one.

 

[CobraMarty]

That's great to have access to those tools. Most of us can only drool.

Past aside, I love forced induction and only want your's and all s/c or turbo projects to succeed. Below are pics of pre-'99 intake with near equal length runners to a common plenum, Rimmer's s/c intake and Sprintex's intake all with near equal length runners. I fully agree and understand the purpose of the angle mill and the hood clearance issue and desire to keep it under the hood. It is the secondary problem/hurdles created, the unequal length runners and unequal airflow to each cylinder, which concern me, not torque 'lost' due to short vs. long runners. 1+6 are nearly twice as long and 2+5 half again as long as 3+4. The already lean 1+6 will now get even less airflow than 2+5 and 3+4 and will be even leaner than the the other cylinders. Unless you can tune each individual cylinder, you will get uneven AFR's of each pair of cylinders. This can and will destroy engines. Not what I want to see happen to you or anyone.

I would build a simple adapter plate like you said, alumn or plastic, that bolts to your welded plate with a ?70mm centrally located hole like where a TB would bolt onto, and flow test it and look at the balance of airflow. It would be money well spent. You don't and I wouldn't try and run it N/A as a test. Just have it properly flow tested. Shops like Dr.J's or SAM might take an interest in getting the flow equalized.

Maybe a small 'dam or lump/hump' to runners 3+4 would help balance the flow or cutting the wall down between runners 1+2 and 5+6 to 'shorten' their lengths to closer to 3+4's length would help.

 

[Talyn]

Below are pics of pre-'99 intake with near equal length runners to a common plenum,

I had no idea why I though the pre 99 intake has un equal length runners

the unequal length runners and unequal airflow to each cylinder, which concern me,

I am not sure that that would be the case thought.

The already lean 1+6

Once the injector casting in the runner was reduced on 2, 3, 4 and 5 the burn pattern looked uniform. Now, I don't have an O2 probe on each cylinder so I can't tell for sure that it actually helped, but judging by the color of the combustion chamber it did.

I would build a simple adapter plate like you said, alumn or plastic, that bolts to your welded plate with a ?70mm centrally located hole like where a TB would bolt onto, and flow test it and look at the balance of airflow. It would be money well spent.

For my needs no money would have to be spent, just time. I did this when I modified the intake for my stroker. I used a manometer and measure vacuum using a shop vac.

cutting the wall down between runners 1+2 and 5+6 to 'shorten' their lengths to closer to 3+4's length would help.

That is what I plan on doing.

 

[Vanimal]

I'm officially jealous. I've been hoping to get a bridgeport sometime but I don't even know how the hell I'll get it into the basement if I do get one.

take it apart and use a cherry picker to wheel it in. thats what i did to bring home one of my bridgeports in a 4cyl ford ranger.

 

[Luke95]

Taking the head off a Bridgeport is easy, ram is the same. Never had to take off a table/knee so I cant way in.

 

[Talyn]

I purchased a Jeep 4.7L throttle body to see if it would work for my SC. If it fit I would have had it bored to 70mm. Trying to avoid paying that much for a 70mm throttle body.

Well, it won't work. The IAC and TPS hang too low when mounted in this way. Oh well. Might be looking at other throttle bodies. At least the 4.7L TB was cheap.

I got around to drilling and tapping the SC snout shaft in case i need to change the pulley system. I was debating just leaving it, but "just in case" got to me.

Just for laughs this is what a stock throttle body looks like on a 70mm hole:

 

[kastein]

Dumb question, you can't just turn it 90 degrees either way so the MAP/IAC aren't colliding with that other mounting plate, can you?

I can't quite picture where that whole setup is going to end up in the engine compartment.

 

[Talyn]

Can't do. Still have to deal with throttle cables and bracket.

 

[Talyn]

Grinding has pretty much ground to a halt. Pun intended. First the 6" burr I was using wasn't cutting well, was old, dull, and a double cut. Then my 90* grinder broke. The 90* part stripped the threads that mounted it to the body. It was a cheapy but held up pretty well for 8 years. I got my money out of it. So I replaced the die grinder with ones from Lowes with a built in regulator. That was about a month ago. But I still needed a bit. About a week ago I got a 6" single cut bit. Besides that work and other projects have been consuming my time.

So, I had the grinder and a burr and some free time on Wednesday. I get everything ready and start grinding again. I was getting a whole lot of chatter and it was hard to control. When I could get it steady enough to cut it was cutting like a champ. Then the burr came out of the grinder. Maybe the collet wasn't tight enough. Put the bit back in and try it again. Still chatter. Take a closed look at the setup. The tip of the burr had about 1/8" of run out. Put the burr in a straight grinder.. runs pretty straight. Put the old burr in the new grinder.. run out. Took a closer look at the grinder. It was the majority of the cause or the run out. I took it back to Lowes and get another one figuring that it might have some how been damaged when the bit came out or I just got a bad one. Yesterday I attempt it again, this time I check it before I even start cutting. Same damn thing. Another pos die grinder with run out. The Lowes grinders may work well for surface finishing and smaller burrs, but no way would it work for this.

Last night I ordered an Ingersoll Rand 302B. While it still isn't an industrial quality ($300+ for one of those) I'm hoping it is at least better than the Lowes one.

I do have most of one side roughed in, just need to do some finishing on it.

I've also been thinking about supports. Besides the one at the front for the snout (that will come once I have the SC mounted to the intake manifold) I'm also planning on putting two under the manifold. One for the front and one for the rear which will come up from the engine mount. I'm debating on attaching it to the underside of the plenum, but then I would have to reinforce the underside so the mounts won't break the bottom on a good bump. The other option is to extend the front and rear of the 1/2" plate enough to run the bars from the engine mount to the plate. However, there i may run into the front and back of the plenum with the support bars, or not be able to push them out far enough without hitting something else. I could make a u shaped bar to tie the front and back together and run under the plenum. Then run the support bars to that. I'm just not fond of the idea of putting the bars directly under the plenum. I'll have to draw up some diagrams later to give a better idea.

 

[urban yan]

Damn. I remember having the conversation about that Lowes grinder. I didn't think it would be THAT crappy though.

 

[kastein]

I'm pretty happy with my Husky air grinder - got it from Home Depot a year or two ago and promptly forgot I owned it until about a month ago. I've only used it with short burrs, but it does pretty well for the 30-40 bucks I spent, and I can get a replacement basically anytime I want since HD is only around 10 miles from my house.

 

[CobraMarty]

Could the dreaded throttle body spacer move the TB back to give clearance for the sensors?

 

[Talyn]

I'm pretty happy with my Husky air grinder - got it from Home Depot

I no longer shop at Home Depot due to a debacle with a broken Husky torque wrench despite their lifetime warranty.

Could the dreaded throttle body spacer move the TB back to give clearance for the sensors?

Not really unless it was angled up steeply some how or offset. I already have a small spacer to clear the IAC mount on the TB from the SC intake plate. The sensor interference is with the manifold itself, not the back of the SC.

Since I have time I'll worry about that later and perhaps see what jeepersandcreepers come up with.