Iraq

[8Mud]

I´m not a lawyer, but my classes in the convention, said something like you couldn´t be forced to reveal tactical information. As a prisoner of war.
But you could be required to give evidence, after the sesation of hostilities. Or in other words, testify. I seem to remember the president, making a statement to the affect, that major hostilities were finished.
There are povisions in the convention, for spontanious combatants, but the choice is mostly up to the captor, the captive can´t really declare. If he does declare, the captors, need not listen. The captor, can pretty much decide wether you are being held as a spontanious combatant, a criminal or a spy, at it´s discretion.
If the theory, that a person who lives under the protection of a government, is required to protect that government, is valid. Then the converse is true, a person who takes up arms against that government, forfiets his protection under that governments laws. He has no rights.
Pretty much the same thing, if you were to walk in a foriegn embassy and take an oath of allegance, you just lost your rights. There are treaty rights that are applicable, among nations. Don´t really know if the Iraqi government has signed a treaty, pertaining to it´s citizens under US control or not.
They tried to teach me this stuff and turn me into a gentleman, it never really did take though.
The simple solution is not to take any prisoners. Let Allah or whomever, read them there rights.

 

[brokexj]

Funny how easy it is for you to "tell the truth", when you live in the states. You sound like Fonda to me. American soliders murdering "innocents", huh? You running your mouth like that reminds me of hippies. Sleep good tonight in your bed knowing that someone who gives a sh@t is watching your back even you are trying to fu*king stab them in theirs. Semper Fi!

The Taliban DID wear a uniform. You were lied to.
The resistance wore the flat topped brown hats.
The Taliban wore white turbans.
Look it up if you disbelieve.






Yet, in ten years, they never managed to actually down a single aircraft.
They must have awfully poor aim.
They were contained and controlled, by the admission of the Bush administration, through public statements by Powell, Rice, Cheney, and others. This is not compelling enough to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people for. No one was harmed by their "pot shots".
This was a cease fire with some serious loop holes with it.
GHW Bush allowed them helicopters, and Rumsfeld sold Saddam toxic gas, and Saddam combined them, and later, AFTER the Kurds had been murdered for starting an uprising the GHW Bush said that he supported, but didn't, Rumseld later went BACK to Iraq to shake hands with the murderous dictator, and sold him more weapons!



So you support the murder of the Kurds? Why?
So you like that more than 100,000 innocent Iraqis are murdered for no reason other than to steal? Weapons inspectors destroyed all their weapons. Why do you think that Saddam's air force was buried under the sand? You were lied to by the Bush administration. Where is the nearly 9 BILLION dollars that "disappeared" at the time that viceroy Bremmer left?
These people are thieves.



Abu Ghraib prison, and 33 other illegal and immoral torture and dentention facilities controlled by Bush/Cheney have damaged the credibility of the United States as a promoter of democracy, and you know it.
If we torture, we cannot say that we have the moral high ground, period.
These torture facilities are no different than Ravensbruck prison. The practices are similar in many instances, including forcing prisoners to torture and kill other prisoners. Heinrich Himmler would laugh to know that Bush/Cheney have reused his failed torture policy, a policy which he abandoned is being completely ineffective and counter productive. More than 30 people have been tortured to death in American prisons, in violation of the Geneva Conventions, International law, United States criminal code, and military law. Bush/Cheney are war criminals.




You will NEVER shut me up! My wife and children will carry on my legacy of dissent long after you try to shut me up. My friends will carry on as well. You can't kill more than 100 million Americans without people taking notice.
We will never rest until everyone knows the truth.
The current count of bodies of the innocent are estimated to be around 130,000, and American soldiers murder more innocents every day, and are dying EVERY SINGLE DAY. More than 28,000 brave American soldiers who were lied to have been wounded. It's enough. We have lost the illegal and immoral war in Iraq, and lost the war on terror, as the bombings in London prove. They have brought the war back to our shores, contrary to the stupid and irrational promise of Bush. We will pay dearly for generations for Bush's evil, and I and my family will always stand up for the truth, and denounce the war as the most evil thing that has occurred in my lifetime, after the Vietnam war and the illegal, immoral secret wars in Central America.
Why do Republicans love to kill people so damn much?

The London bombings were performed by British nationals using military grade bomb materials.
The British have already made criminal arrests, and are onto those that did the bombings.
This is the right way to deal with it, NOT bombing a country that had nothing to do with terror attacks on the United States.
They had no weapons of mass destruction!

Can you explain why US Airmen are being ordered out of London?
We look like stinking cowards to the Brits!

 

[8Mud]

Glenn,

From someone in the middle east right now, I am BEHIND you point of view the whole way!!! Keep fighting the good fight here and know I have read this post to many members in my shop (which happens to be Security Forces the AF equal to the Army MP's), and all everyone says is Get EM' GLENN.

Would you torment a prisioner for no good reason? I´m not talking about an attitude adjustment, for somebody who despiratly needed one. If some sucker threw feces at me, I´d probably put some lumps on his head.
I´m talking about making them perform, like circus animals.
In Mexico, the police used to shake up a coke and spray it up some tourists nose, until they got the truth. Or at least a beleavable story.
Two weeks later, when some migrant worker is found dead in a ditch, it´s a hate crime.
Is it possible some Iraqi, might shoot some soldier in the head, just because they wore the same uniform as there tormentor.
The whole thing seems kind of dumb to me.
I could be wasting my breath, but some things that seem prudent and reasonable in war, come back to haunt you 10 or 15 years later. They just don´t seem the same, with a little seasoning.

 

[ECKSJAY]

Do your homework. Learn what qualifies one for protection under the Geneva convention. These guys do not.

You're absolutely correct. I keep forgetting we're not fighting another country's Army. We're simply occupying another country under questionable pretenses. Our nation's prisoners are merely animals because they don't wear a uniform and don't use deodorant.

I humbly apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

We're simply occupying another country under questionable pretenses.

Aside from any opinions I may have on the occupation/liberation of Iraq...

How is this any different from any other episode in our or any other country's history when occupying territory by force...

When's the last time anybody invaded another country/territory and the local population just bent over?

and please...

France doesn't count

Lets place Iraq aside for a moment... isn't it SOP for resistance movements to not play by the rules?

We didn't play by the rules during the revolutionary war...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that those that can't (or do not want to) learn from history are doomed to get their asses handed to them.

Politics and tactics are strange bedfellows nowadays...

 

[goodburbon]

ok, lets say the democrats win the next election, and I dont like the changes imposed on me.

I start killing everyone I see with IEDs and shooting police officers, and wreaking all kinds of havoc.

I then cannot be subject to the death penalty when caught, because the geneva conventions protects me. wow this is a whole new murder defense. I can claim to be an insurgent and they have to give me fair treatment. and then as soon as the conflict that I claim to be partaking in is over, they have to let me go.

woohoo!

next retarded argument please.

 

[DrMoab]

Can we bring the Reputation points back....Please???

 

[ECKSJAY]

Lets place Iraq aside for a moment... isn't it SOP for resistance movements to not play by the rules?

Negative. The first row of each opposing force kneels and along with the second row, fire their weapons at each other while the third row makes ready their weapons.

Those, my good sir, are the rules of combat that gentlemen follow. To hell with all those other bloody animals.

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

Those, my good sir, are the rules of combat that gentlemen follow.

Ahhh...The crux of the matter...

problem is...

"combat" and "gentle" are two concepts that should never share a sentence...

Unless it's an Aikido class of course.

Wasn't it Patton that said it best:

"You don't win wars by dying for your country... You win wars by making some other poor bastard die for his."

Like any major conflict in recent history...

It'd be too easy to allow the military to do what they do best...

Get in... kick ass... Get out.

Politics are the true IED's in a soldiers life.

Being a veteran myself... I'll tell ya I never cared about the why I was sent where I was...

Part of the job/choices I made...

What I DID care about was getting home in one piece...

AND THAT is what should be the most important topic and consideration of ANY armed conflict our troops are involved in...

No matter the length and nature of their deployment...

and although most servicemen (and women) accept the risks...

We have to support and encourage our troops while away...

and wish for many safe returns.

 

[ECKSJAY]

Being a veteran myself... I'll tell ya I never cared about the why I was sent where I was...

Part of the job/choices I made...

What I DID care about was getting home in one piece...

I did it for the college money.

Oh, and the PTSD I've had to put up with for the last 6 years.

THAT wasn't even combat related. :wierd:

 

[Bent]

Islamic fundamentalism, has probably been around for awhile. The first anyone ever heard of it much, was when Iran changed hands.
And shortly after, when Islamic Fundamentalism, started growing fast.

Sorry, you may have just fallen off the turnip truck, but there have been countless in Indonesia that have died as a result of it.

I wonder if it would be cheaper to invade Israel, than Iraq. Or Saudia Arabia, Turkey, greece, Bulgaria, Egypt, Libia or Algeria.

There you go with that pinko left half a$$ approach again. Anything short of melting the whole sand box into a sheet of glass is a waste of time and effort.

 

[Reindeer]

this is fun.

I think you're silly. lets host international hug a taliban day

I see that you have both chosen to attack me personally. Interesting.
It's a shame that you didn't address honestly one single question that I posed to you.
You falsely assert that I have anything other than animosity for the Taliban, an entity that you yourself acknowledge was created by George Herbert Walker Bush and Ronald Reagan.
They had Osama bin Laden on the CIA payroll as well.
They created these people by placing military bases on the two most holy sites in Islam, in violation of their religious beliefs.
By supporting Reagan & GHW Bush, you support the Taliban, NOT me.
I supported sending troops into Afghanistan to capture and kill al Queada, and the Taliban, but the war in Iraq has nothing to do with that, and Bush took troops away from that effort to send to Iraq. He lied to us.

we have been screwing around covertly in the middle east for too long,

Agreed. The CIA should not have assasinated the Shah of Iran, causing the religious zealots to take power 20 years later, after Iran suffered under a brutal dictator that we installed. That was wrong, just like the war in Iraq is wrong. I'm glad the we can agree on something.

we supported the taliban because they opposed the greater evil at the time. we supported Saddam because he opposed the greater evil at the time.

And we are as a nation mirroring in our government the exact evil that we sought to suppress then. We are fast becoming just like the Soviet Union in that we are rigging elections, removing civil rights, attacking other nations that did not attack us, creating Gulags, crushing free speech and dissent, and establishing a state doctrine and one party rule.

Now that the greater evil is collapsed (USSR)

Yes, Soviet Russia collapsed under the weight of too much military spending fighting wars in Afghanistan and Chechnya, and it has cost them dearly. Now they live without any sort of democracy or freedom. We should learn from their grave mistake, not become them.

it is time to take out the lesser of those two evils (taliban)

Ah, but that war is lost, as is the war in Iraq.
We have only created more reasons for al Queada and other radicals to recruit new forces against us, thanks to Bush's illegal and immoral wars.
We could have caught and punished those that did this evil to us, and shown the world that we will not sit still, like Clinton did with the first terror bombings in NY, but instead Bush/Cheney have created a war that is about stealing and theivery and deceit and money. They are power mad, and they will be stopped, just like Nixon was, or we will become similar to the Soviet Union.

and since Saddam went out of bounds and attacked kuwait we had to weaken him.

GHW Bush baited him into it, because the Kuwaitis were slant drilling into Iraq's oil fields. Bush knew that this would create a situation that would make Saddam go to war with Kuwait, and then cried foul.
Why would GHW Bush do this? He and his family profit tremendously from Saudi connections, and from their stock in the Carlyle Group, a major weapons vendor. He also was sagging in the polls, just like his son.

he still refused to play nice, so we need something stronger to oppose Iran.

Oh, please. The Iran-Iraq war was fought because of our meddling, having created the climate for religious extremists to take over Iran, and once they did, Iran wanted control over Iraq, a secular nation cobbled together of disparate religious and ethnic groups.
Under GHW Bush, Iraq was sold all kinds of WMDs, most of which were not used, and all of which were destroyed by 1999 under UN sanctions.
You who oppose the UN should seriously rethink the matter, because without the UN, those WMDs that Bush sold would still be there.

So, you think that the policy of "they enemy of my enemy is my friend".
That means that you support Neville Chamberlain, and his "peace in our time" doctrine, because you support that idea that THE EVIL EMPIRE, Russia, is to be deterred at all costs, including siding up with the NAZIs. Think about it. If Iraq was our friend, and Iran the enemy, then why are we killing our allies? Hmmm. Maybe that doctrine the the Bush crime family uses doesn't work so good.

the war is not illegal, nor is it illigetimate. we have BEEN at war since the gulf war, and when a cease fire is violated by the parties bound by it you return to the previous state....war.

This war bloody well IS illegal AND immoral, just like Nixon's war on Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos was. Illegal bombings not authorised by Congress or the American people. Violation of international and US law, and the Constitution, all the way around. Public Law 102 was based on cooked intelligence and references only WMDs as the primary reason for going to war. "Facts and intelligence were fixed around the policy."
"The evidence against Saddam was thin." These are quotes from the Blair administration, thanks to the British press, which is currently (and ironically) more free and accurate at this point than our own.
The War Powers Act was violated, and now we have proof through the Downing Street Minutes. You haven't read them, but you know of them, thanks to the efforts of many brave Americans and John Conyers.
The American people have and are being lied to by Bush and his crime family. Lying to Congress is a felony. Outing a CIA operative is treason punishable by death.

Bush is a war criminal. It's fact. Deal with it.

I cannot understand your dissent, I try, but it is as though you ignore the fact that they want us dead.

I suggest that you haven't really been exposed to much of the truth, as our media is complicit, and has business before a Republican controlled congress.
My dissent stems from education about the principles on which this country was founded. Read H.W. Brands _The First American_ to understand the history of dissent and why democracy lasted so long before Republicans destroyed it by taking away the freedom of the press with the revokation of the fairness doctrine by the monster, Ronald Reagan and the CIA spook, GHW Bush. "Without a free press, democracy cannot survive." -- Thomas Jefferson

Your approach is to embrace ignorance and propaganda, it seems.
You believe the lies.
You need to realize that America is no longer accepting the lies.
The polls reflect that fact.
No one in Iraq had anything to do with 9/11, and your president has admitted that fact. It's a matter of public record. Listen to your president:
"We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Septemer the eleventh." - George Walker Bush

Wake up. Iraq is a war for cheap oil and profits from war. It's stealing.
America is a strong and resourceful place. We are blessed with excellent geography and natural resources. We can have alternative fuels if only the Republicans would accept it, and start some real programs (like president Carter did) to promote energy independence. We fight these people because we have been attacking them since 800 AD, and they are done with sitting still. They will only stop killing our children when we stop killing theirs.
We can be morally better than they are. Of that, I am sure.
We must secure our borders, and prevent the attacks, as Clinton did with the Millenium Bomb Plot. It can be done. 9/11 could have been prevented, but Bush ignored the warnings.

 

[DrMoab]

Reindeer and this guy... http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=61170 too much alike if you ask me.

 

[goodburbon]

reindeer,

you don't seem to understand. you use lots of words to try to prove your point, you cite papers written by someone else that are supposed to be the end all on the matter. I don't care what someone else said, what do you say, what proof do you have that your conspiracy theories are correct?

"goulag" "Bush crime family" you throw around this explosive rhetoric, and then proceed to try to convince people you are right?

fact: there is no other single company in the world that has the resources to restore the infrastructure to an entire countries oil reserves. that is why Halliburton was chosen, not because Cheney used to work for them.

fact:Iraq invaded Kuwait, directional drilling cannot be blamed for that. directional drilling to steal another countries resources is extraordinarily impractical, and the resources you could pirate would be minimal

I called you silly, sorry. I didnt feel that the explosive word "silly" would cut you too deep, and I am trying to keep it light.


It is evident that you are thoroughly convinced of your conspiracy theories, and there is no hope for you, or your family, or your friends, since you desire to live in world where if someone shoots at you, you have to grin and bear it untill someone is killed. that is not an insult. nor is it a personal attack.

if you cared to notice, by the way, the Iraq army didnt offer up much organized resistance. its as though they wanted to be overrun.

I dont know where you get your "soldiers killing innocent people" arguement. I would ask that you refrain from this kind of hurtful rhetoric. Soldiers do their job, that entails killing people, those people are that are killed are usually an immeadate threat. Our nations army is more concerned about reducing collateral damage and loss of innocent life, than any army in the world. please do not accuse them of murder.

why would you think that I would want to silence 100million americans? why would you think I want to silence you? your paranoia is rooted in fallacies, as you reach to mold the world into your crooked view using any theory you conjure up or hear about to make us the bad guys.

having said that, when we gonna wheel, so we can remember that we have things in common?

 

[red91]

next retarded argument please.

No, thanks. You've given us enough already.

Can we bring the Reputation points back....Please???

You wouldn't have someone PARTICLUAR in mind would you ???

The unnamed person would probably just bitch, moan, and whine to the authorities...

 

[Beej]

Reindeer, take it from an unabashed realist. YOU ARE GETTING NOWHERE! Its extremely difficult to change someone else's values, especially when they think they are absolutely right. How easily do you think you will be swayed from your viewpoint by right-wing war-economics ethnocentric rhetoric? If the stuff that's put up here is repugnant to you, take a shot of whiskey and flame them at your local pub with your buddies. You've broken into a conservative hothouse, and many growers are not even remotely interested in hearing your perspective, regardless of the evidence you provide. I don't believe a lot of what is put up here, but it doesn't mean others' viewpoints are any less valid than my own. That's what freedom is really about. Listen to the arguments and learn, but don't expect to change anyone...

 

[Steve-o94XJ]

Beej, I concur with part of your post, but I'm not sure what kind of "evidence" you're talking about that Reindeer has provided?

Seems to me that Reindeer registered on this board in order to cut and paste quotes from "credible" sources like MoveOn.org, Counterpunch, Democraticunderground, the Daily Kos, or from such "beacons of truth" as Molly Ivins and Paul Krugman.

ROTFL!!!

Reindeer, your attempts at moral equivalence between a few morons at Abu Ghraib, vs. people who blow up innocent women and children on buses, in skyscrapers, or in pizza parlors, or put people in wood-chippers…is mind-boggling.
Gulags? You actually believe the horsesh*t spewed forth by the washed-up D*ckless Durbin?

There is no equivalence b/w the two, and may God have mercy on your poor, misinformed, wretched soul for even TRYING to equate the two.

And I love it how reflexive Bush-haters always revert back to "Don't believe the lies! You're being fooled! C'mon people. Wake up! Read up on this stuff!"


Lemme guess: you'd have us believe that the Clinton administration had all kinds of info. on the threats posed by al-Qaeda, etc., for eight whole years, did nothing, then dropped it all on Dubya, and expected him to prevent the 9/11 attacks in the first 8 months of his administration... and now you're putting all the blame on Dubya for not preventing it? Sure.

Regarding Iraq, let's bring out the classic quotes shall we?

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."--From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle and John Kerry among others on Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam's goal . . . is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed."--Madeline Albright, 1998

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability."--Robert Byrd, October 2002

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs."--Jacques Chirac, Oct. 16, 2002

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow."--Bill Clinton in 1998

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security."--Hillary Clinton, Oct. 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons. . . . I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out."--Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April 2003

"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people."--Tom Daschle in 1998

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."--Al Gore, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."--Senator Bob Graham, December 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."--Ted Kennedy, Sept. 27, 2002

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."--Nancy Pelosi, Dec. 16, 1998

"Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production."--Ex-U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter in 1998
---------------

Remember Saddam not allowing the UN inspectors unfettered access to all sites with in the country?

Remember the 12 years that Saddam played cat and mouse with the UN inspectors?

Remember the 10 years that Saddam fired missiles at our planes almost every day?

Remember how we didn't know about Saddams bio-weapons or nuke programs until key members fled the country and told us about them?

Remember how Saddam was funding terrorists, training terrorists in Iraq, and harboring terrorists such as Ansar al-Islam, a group linked to al-Qaeda?

Remember how the Duefler, Kay, and Blix reports all said that minus the sanctions and international pressure, Saddam would have resumed production of bio, chem and nuke weapons?

Remember how France, Germany and Russia were trying to get the sanctions and pressure off of Saddam, so that they could reestablish oil production in that country, and resume arms sales?

Remember how the Congress signed a bill which stated the many things we had concerns about besides WMDs?

Maybe our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan has provoked the terror attacks, such as those in Madrid and London!!!
Let's pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan, then! Then there will be no more terror attacks!

1972: Muslim fanatics take Israelis hostage at the Munich Olympic games.

1979: the attack on the U.S. embassy in Iran and taking of American hostages.

1983: the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up, killing 241 U.S. troops.

1988: Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed, killing 259 people on the plane and 11 people on the ground.

1993: the second level of the World Trade Center parking basement was blown up, killing 6 people and injuring 1000.

1996: a truck bomb is driven into the U.S. army barracks in al-Khobar, Saudi Arabia, killing 19 American servicemen.

1998: the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed, killing 213 people.

October 12, 2000: the USS Cole was blown up, killing 17 crewmembers and injuring 42 by a small boat carrying explosives.

September 11, 2001...

The war against Iraq/Al-Qaeda, etc., is all part of the same goal: eradicating terrorism and those people/regimes who support it. The days of Cold War-era "realpolitik" are over. It's time to deal with threats before they strike at home again.

Reindeer pisses and moans and complains, and I have yet to see a viable alternative solution put forth. Do you have a better plan? Do you think terror attacks will stop if we close down Gitmo or put all the terrorist detainees through the same U.S. judicial system as a shoplifter? Riiiiiiiight...

In the meantime, we probably won't know the whole story about WMDs for years. Until then, we have a job to finish in Iraq. And hopefully the push for democracy in Iraq has a ripple effect throughout the Middle East.

Our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims' families in London, and may God bless our troops, wherever they are in our world.

Whew!

 

[8Mud]

Well said Steve.
To throw something else in the mix, it was stated with varying degrees of certanty that there were weapons of mass destruction.
It is now being said, that there are no weapons of mass destruction. With a larger degree of certanty. I remain a skeptic on the subject.
I for one, don´t want evidence that they exist, but want evidence they don´t exist. The plutonium reprocessing plant near where I live, has had plutonium go missing, they even caught one guy trying to sell some to Syria. An ounce of Plutonium, will kill everybody in Texas. Didn´t hear about it, they did a pretty good job of covering it up.
One of the first things that happened when Iraq was liberated, was there was a riot. I remember one reporter standing there scratching his head and commenting, he really can´t figure out, why the Iraquis were burning the records in many of the governement buildings, when they could be out liberating Hi Fi gear and big screen TV´s.
Sadam had millions, if not billions of dollars of money deverted from the oil for food program. Givin his record, do you honestly think he didin´t spend some of that money on SDBS (sooper dupper bad sh*t). Do you honestly believe, he couldn´t buy some somewhere, with all the money he had.
With all of the resources available, we never did do a very good job, of finding and fixing Scuds.
How hard would it be to hide, 3.4 a half dozen containers (at around 60,000 lbs. each) in a hole, in a desert about the size of Arizona.
Here in Germany at least twice a month, somebody digs up a 500 lb. bomb, while excavating or planting tomatoes. It´s been 60 years and they haven´t found them all yet.
IMO schools still out on WMD, until it´s absolutly certain they don´t exist, maybe in a couple of hundred years. I have absolutly no hard evidence one way or the other, but people have been convicted many times on circumstantial evidence. Logic tells me, that if he hadn´t stockpiled some kind of meaness, it wasn´t from lack of effort.

 

[Bent]

The war against Iraq/Al-Qaeda, etc., is all part of the same goal: eradicating terrorism and those people/regimes who support it. The days of Cold War-era "realpolitik" are over. It's time to deal with threats before they strike at home again.

Our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims' families in London, and may God bless our troops, wherever they are in our world.

atriot:

It sucks, really sucks that American blood must once again be spilled on foreign soil. Whether we like it or not war has been declared by those who would like nothing better than to eradicate all non-muslims from the face of the planet. No matter how much rhetoric and tolerance krap you want to package the enemies agenda with, we have been given but only two choices;
Liberty or Death. It really is that simple. Like it or not I must also choose. I choose to fight.


TIM

 

[Beej]

There is no emoticon for what I am currently feeling...