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Iraq

So Glenn, are you saying that you agree with the disregard of sworn oaths to uphold the Geneva/Hague agreements that the Abu Ghraib MPs took?

I went through the same classes, the same days, at the very same time, SITTING NEXT TO 'SGT' Javal Davis...and I sure don't recollect any teaching condoning the act of mishandling prisoners. Seems to me that some of these individuals took it upon themselves to rewrite standards and show their mental weaknesses. Major lack of integrity and bearing, IMPO.
 
Yes, yes, I am an asshole. I do not want to coddle the prisoners, so I must be evil. No, what some of your MOS did is not good, but it is not common. Get a grip. So a group of MP's act like idiots? They are being sent to prison. Phil, you know how I feel about this, we have talked about it. The guys with the same "law enforcement background" that you profess to have, were idiots. That does not make EVERY MP an idiot? right?

Do your homework. Learn what qualifies one for protection under the Geneva convention. These guys do not.

ECKSJAY said:
So Glenn, are you saying that you agree with the disregard of sworn oaths to uphold the Geneva/Hague agreements that the Abu Ghraib MPs took?

I went through the same classes, the same days, at the very same time, SITTING NEXT TO 'SGT' Javal Davis...and I sure don't recollect any teaching condoning the act of mishandling prisoners. Seems to me that some of these individuals took it upon themselves to rewrite standards and show their mental weaknesses. Major lack of integrity and bearing, IMPO.
 
I agree that it was a lack of bearing in uniform, and should not have taken place.

that having been said, I never needed Iraq "sold" to me. we were at a cease fire, one which was violated repeatedly, which you never seem to hear of. They were taking pot shots at our jets patrolling the no-fly zone. I was for going back in when I found this out back in 98. its a damn shame it took so long to get there.

the ABU thing is being dragged out and used as fuel for the fires of those who oppose us in the world, not the terrorists. they sit and laugh as we destroy ourselves.

shut up, fight the war and count the bodies when its over, not every hour.
 
do us a favor and turn off CNN. (Communist News Network) Ted Turner is NOT your friend. He's is a RATINGS WHORE....along with most of the alphabet channels...

This explains things right here.
You don't even know that Ted Turner has not been part of CNN for some time now. He left the company awhile ago.
CNN used to be part of legitimate reporting, but no longer.
It shows exactly how misinformed you are.

Iraq is an illegal and immoral war, and this unofficial report is proof of just how desperate the Bush crime family is to defend their evil.
Read a legitimate newspaper folks. Be informed. Stop passing on lies and misinformation.

Explain why Bush is protecting a man who, by his own admission, is a traitor to America, having exposed an intelligence operative, killing at least two informants, and risking the lives of any who are connected with Plame.
Karl Rove should be in the Abu Ghraib prison, by your logic.
The lies that were told to get America into this war are criminal, and those who told them should be jailed and punished to the fullest extent of the law.

le·git·i·mate adjective:

1. Being in compliance with the law; lawful: a legitimate business.
2. Being in accordance with established or accepted patterns and standards: legitimate advertising practices.
3. Based on logical reasoning; reasonable: a legitimate solution to the problem.
4. Authentic; genuine: a legitimate complaint.
...
 
steve01XJ said:
I would suggest that we could have saved 1750 American deaths and 20,000 American casualties, not to mention billions of dollars if we had just let Hussein's regime implode all by itself. American troops should only be committed to war to defend our national interests. To date, we have not been given a legitimate national interest to defend by invading Iraq.

Islamic fundamentalism, has probably been around for awhile. The first anyone ever heard of it much, was when Iran changed hands.
And shortly after, when Islamic Fundamentalism, started growing fast.
If/when Iraq imploded, pretty darned certain, the borders of Iran would be somewhere around Syria now. I can honestly invision a domino affect, like what was predicted in South East Asia.
I wonder if it would be cheaper to invade Israel, than Iraq. Or Saudia Arabia, Turkey, greece, Bulgaria, Egypt, Libia or Algeria.
The Iranian style fundamentalist influence, is already many times the area of Iran.
We displaced Sadam and in the process, set up a counter balance to the growing threat, it just may save money and lives in the long run.
We actually have a substantial presence on two borders with Iran. And outposts, all through the area, on possible supply lines.
I personaly think we have bigger problems, than the morality of the Iraqi war.
 
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Glenn said:
I hope your Democrat party actually puts up a viable candidate this time. No traitors, liars, lawyers, theives, etc....


:laugh2: :laugh2:



Uhm....there isn't anybody left. But I'm pretty sure thats what your shooting for. ;)
 
steve01XJ said:
. To date, we have not been given a legitimate national interest to defend by invading Iraq.

What ?? the guy (saddam ) IGNORES about what, a dozen UN resolutions to comply or suffer the consequences. He doesn't comply.

Little Billy C. is too busy getting some from interns to pay attention to this, the gassing of Kurds (what, they don't have a right to life ?) and the debacle in Somalia that got enough of our guys killed. ALSO the first trade center bombing, the offer of Osama by Saudi arabia (IIRC), the attack on the USS Cole, and the bombing of an American Embassy in Africa. Bill had to many other things to do than protect OUR national intrests.


Bill C in all of his infinite wisdom decides to scale back the military...and NOW were left without enough military resources all around the world.

Meanwhile....MR NICE GUY...(saddam) lets his sons and the higher ups in his party rape and kill innocent children, women, and men that simply do not agree with him.

You think that is tollerable ??

PUHLEEZ...our Gov. has sat on it's collective hands long enough. Sure the timing is bad, but Billy C sat on his ass for years letting this grow. Someone had to say enough is enough.

AND we did have/ still do, a collition of willing countries that also think the shite that was going on there was WRONG.

BTW...the guys in abu graib...are NOT MILITARY PERSONEL, and are not accorded the wonders and protections of the Geniva Convention. If they wanted that...they should all dress in the same military uniform. UNFORTUNATELY....some Egyptians, Syrians, and Iranians don't want to be found out that they are somewhere they shouldn't be.
 
I wasn´t to impressed with the way the former Democratic President delt with, the Osama threat. Threw a few cruise missles at a training base and then went back to the important stuff, like boinking the office help.
Then the party tried to put one of Hanoi Janes cronies in the white house.
Why not Biden or somebody, that may have been, a legitimate possiblity and possibly a good President.
The Democratic ticket was kind of pathetic.
 
red91inWA said:
BTW...the guys in abu graib...are NOT MILITARY PERSONEL, and are not accorded the wonders and protections of the Geniva Convention. If they wanted that...they should all dress in the same military uniform. UNFORTUNATELY....some Egyptians, Syrians, and Iranians don't want to be found out that they are somewhere they shouldn't be.

I already said that. :) But some would rather "hug them and be nice" and that will not work. Been tried, and failed. These same guys are the ones that yap about "the US funded, supported them, etc..." Yeah, so being nice and cuddly with those bent on murder does not work. The UN does not work. Sanctions do not work. Well, take a hint you "nay sayers". You cannot hug them in to peace. War is a bitch (sorry Eagle for the *bad word*).

They were given a choice, and they made it. They will lose.
 
And his chicken shite (sorry Eagle for the bad word) handing of Mogedishu. Clinton is a gutless coward, IMHO.

Forget about the facts:
[size=-1] - The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates*
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- First president accused of rape.
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- First president to be held in contempt of court
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad
[/size]


8Mud said:
I wasn´t to impressed with the way the former Democratic President delt with, the Osama threat. Threw a few cruise missles at a training base and then went back to the important stuff, like boinking the office help.
Then the party tried to put one of Hanoi Janes cronies in the white house.
Why not Biden or somebody, that may have been, a legitimate possiblity and possibly a good President.
The Democratic ticket was kind of pathetic.
 
We should just get out of the UN all together considering Koffi is just as corupt as most of our ploticians. Once we stop paying the dues for half the DAMN world to bein it....maybe they can just go BABYSIT themselves.

I know you brought up that issue glenn.


I'm thinking some need to learn by rote.

Definitions of rote on the Web:

memorization by repetition.

No, Honest...thats what it means.
 
8Mud said:
In short no, those poor suckers, had the bad luck, to have a pervert or 3 for jailers.

All I can add to this thread is this:

Lucky the fuckers didn't get me for a jailer...

I'd show them the meaning of torture...

(Remember the hi-lift and a tub of spackle thread?)

My great grandpa was jailed for 10 years for being a politically subversive element...

physically (no mind games for him) tortured every day on schedule...

The guys that taught the jailers later went on to form the School of the Americas...

The irony?

I know the curriculum

:D

Sorry... No sympathy for those that don't play by the rules.
 
goodburbon said:
I agree that it was a lack of bearing in uniform, and should not have taken place.


The Taliban DID wear a uniform. You were lied to.
The resistance wore the flat topped brown hats.
The Taliban wore white turbans.
Look it up if you disbelieve.

Republic-news.org said:
"The combatants in this case were captured wearing ordinary robes and turbans- not generally recognized military uniforms. However, during several decades of war in Afghanistan, the typical outfit worn by combatants has been ordinary robes and turbans, and these may be regarded as military uniforms there.

It is revealing that when Taliban forces surrendered to Northern Alliance forces last fall, and then agreed to fight in cooperation with the Northern Alliance, they changed the colour of their turbans from white to brown. This would seem to indicate that the turban is part of a military uniform, insofar as uniforms are meant to identify a person as a combatant and to suggest which side a combatant is on."


goodburbon said:
that having been said, I never needed Iraq "sold" to me. we were at a cease fire, one which was violated repeatedly, which you never seem to hear of. They were taking pot shots at our jets patrolling the no-fly zone.

Yet, in ten years, they never managed to actually down a single aircraft.
They must have awfully poor aim.
They were contained and controlled, by the admission of the Bush administration, through public statements by Powell, Rice, Cheney, and others. This is not compelling enough to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people for. No one was harmed by their "pot shots".
This was a cease fire with some serious loop holes with it.
GHW Bush allowed them helicopters, and Rumsfeld sold Saddam toxic gas, and Saddam combined them, and later, AFTER the Kurds had been murdered for starting an uprising the GHW Bush said that he supported, but didn't, Rumseld later went BACK to Iraq to shake hands with the murderous dictator, and sold him more weapons!

goodburbon said:
I was for going back in when I found this out back in 98. its a damn shame it took so long to get there.

So you support the murder of the Kurds? Why?
So you like that more than 100,000 innocent Iraqis are murdered for no reason other than to steal? Weapons inspectors destroyed all their weapons. Why do you think that Saddam's air force was buried under the sand? You were lied to by the Bush administration. Where is the nearly 9 BILLION dollars that "disappeared" at the time that viceroy Bremmer left?
These people are thieves.

goodburbon said:
the ABU thing is being dragged out and used as fuel for the fires of those who oppose us in the world, not the terrorists. they sit and laugh as we destroy ourselves.

Abu Ghraib prison, and 33 other illegal and immoral torture and dentention facilities controlled by Bush/Cheney have damaged the credibility of the United States as a promoter of democracy, and you know it.
If we torture, we cannot say that we have the moral high ground, period.
These torture facilities are no different than Ravensbruck prison. The practices are similar in many instances, including forcing prisoners to torture and kill other prisoners. Heinrich Himmler would laugh to know that Bush/Cheney have reused his failed torture policy, a policy which he abandoned is being completely ineffective and counter productive. More than 30 people have been tortured to death in American prisons, in violation of the Geneva Conventions, International law, United States criminal code, and military law. Bush/Cheney are war criminals.


goodburbon said:
shut up, fight the war and count the bodies when its over, not every hour.

You will NEVER shut me up! My wife and children will carry on my legacy of dissent long after you try to shut me up. My friends will carry on as well. You can't kill more than 100 million Americans without people taking notice.
We will never rest until everyone knows the truth.
The current count of bodies of the innocent are estimated to be around 130,000, and American soldiers murder more innocents every day, and are dying EVERY SINGLE DAY. More than 28,000 brave American soldiers who were lied to have been wounded. It's enough. We have lost the illegal and immoral war in Iraq, and lost the war on terror, as the bombings in London prove. They have brought the war back to our shores, contrary to the stupid and irrational promise of Bush. We will pay dearly for generations for Bush's evil, and I and my family will always stand up for the truth, and denounce the war as the most evil thing that has occurred in my lifetime, after the Vietnam war and the illegal, immoral secret wars in Central America.
Why do Republicans love to kill people so damn much?

The London bombings were performed by British nationals using military grade bomb materials.
The British have already made criminal arrests, and are onto those that did the bombings.
This is the right way to deal with it, NOT bombing a country that had nothing to do with terror attacks on the United States.
They had no weapons of mass destruction!

Can you explain why US Airmen are being ordered out of London?
We look like stinking cowards to the Brits!
 
Gil BullyKatz said:
My great grandpa was jailed for 10 years for being a politically subversive element...

Sorry... No sympathy for those that don't play by the rules.

Hmmm...irony. My G. Grandpa was in a DETENTION camp....and he didn't walk out. As a matter of fact....he didn't get out ALIVE.


abu graib....boo hoo...when do they get their lemon chicken, and rice pilaff? Which way is mecca ? They need to pray...oh, I almost forgot...heres a copy of the quar'an so you have something to read.


These guys are treated better than ANY detainees in HISTORY.


maybe we should reopen this little resort so they can enjoy themselves...

http://holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/
 
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this is fun.

I think you're silly.
lets host international hug a taliban day.
we have been screwing around covertly in the middle east for too long, we supported the taliban because they opposed the greater evil at the time. we supported Saddam because he opposed the greater evil at the time.
Now that the greater evil is collapsed (USSR) it is time to take out the lesser of those two evils (taliban)
and since Saddam went out of bounds and attacked kuwait we had to weaken him. he still refused to play nice, so we need something stronger to oppose Iran.

as for the pot shots thing, lets have a shootout. you cant shoot back until I hit you though, because that is the way you think we should play the game.

the war is not illegal, nor is it illigetimate. we have BEEN at war since the gulf war, and when a cease fire is violated by the parties bound by it you return to the previous state....war.

I cannot understand your dissent, I try, but it is as though you ignore the fact that they want us dead. if they were willing to live and let live I would be too, but since they are not, I am willing torture and kill anyone who threatens the livelihood of my family.

have another sip of kool-aid and get back to me
 
Your spewing is fuckin crap, to be frank. You seem to enjoy this jihad and the "militants" murdering their own Civilains as well as Americans.

Uniforms? Give me a break. That is like saying "Levis" are a Military uniform, but "jeans" are not. Pfft

Show me these illegal "detention facilities"? I want to see them, and the specific law that applies. Thanks.

Since you are so in to your jihad, you do know we are aware of the Manchester Documents? Good luck with you jihad.

"you will never shut me up" "Bush/Cheney are war ciminals". Yet you live where? And are doing what? Besides spewing vomit on a Jeep Club Forum?

"We will never rest until everyone knows the truth.". LOL, that is funnier than hell (sorry Eagle for the bad word). Good luck with convincing everybody in the USA that your Jihad is the truth.

No worries, Thes forums are monitored, and I am sure your terms will strike up some terms on the government computers, and you will soon be in jail and tortured. OR, jihad will win. Who knows.
Reindeer said:
The Taliban DID wear a uniform. You were lied to.
The resistance wore the flat topped brown hats.
The Taliban wore white turbans.
Look it up if you disbelieve.






Yet, in ten years, they never managed to actually down a single aircraft.
They must have awfully poor aim.
They were contained and controlled, by the admission of the Bush administration, through public statements by Powell, Rice, Cheney, and others. This is not compelling enough to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people for. No one was harmed by their "pot shots".
This was a cease fire with some serious loop holes with it.
GHW Bush allowed them helicopters, and Rumsfeld sold Saddam toxic gas, and Saddam combined them, and later, AFTER the Kurds had been murdered for starting an uprising the GHW Bush said that he supported, but didn't, Rumseld later went BACK to Iraq to shake hands with the murderous dictator, and sold him more weapons!



So you support the murder of the Kurds? Why?
So you like that more than 100,000 innocent Iraqis are murdered for no reason other than to steal? Weapons inspectors destroyed all their weapons. Why do you think that Saddam's air force was buried under the sand? You were lied to by the Bush administration. Where is the nearly 9 BILLION dollars that "disappeared" at the time that viceroy Bremmer left?
These people are thieves.



Abu Ghraib prison, and 33 other illegal and immoral torture and dentention facilities controlled by Bush/Cheney have damaged the credibility of the United States as a promoter of democracy, and you know it.
If we torture, we cannot say that we have the moral high ground, period.
These torture facilities are no different than Ravensbruck prison. The practices are similar in many instances, including forcing prisoners to torture and kill other prisoners. Heinrich Himmler would laugh to know that Bush/Cheney have reused his failed torture policy, a policy which he abandoned is being completely ineffective and counter productive. More than 30 people have been tortured to death in American prisons, in violation of the Geneva Conventions, International law, United States criminal code, and military law. Bush/Cheney are war criminals.




You will NEVER shut me up! My wife and children will carry on my legacy of dissent long after you try to shut me up. My friends will carry on as well. You can't kill more than 100 million Americans without people taking notice.
We will never rest until everyone knows the truth.
The current count of bodies of the innocent are estimated to be around 130,000, and American soldiers murder more innocents every day, and are dying EVERY SINGLE DAY. More than 28,000 brave American soldiers who were lied to have been wounded. It's enough. We have lost the illegal and immoral war in Iraq, and lost the war on terror, as the bombings in London prove. They have brought the war back to our shores, contrary to the stupid and irrational promise of Bush. We will pay dearly for generations for Bush's evil, and I and my family will always stand up for the truth, and denounce the war as the most evil thing that has occurred in my lifetime, after the Vietnam war and the illegal, immoral secret wars in Central America.
Why do Republicans love to kill people so damn much?

The London bombings were performed by British nationals using military grade bomb materials.
The British have already made criminal arrests, and are onto those that did the bombings.
This is the right way to deal with it, NOT bombing a country that had nothing to do with terror attacks on the United States.
They had no weapons of mass destruction!

Can you explain why US Airmen are being ordered out of London?
We look like stinking cowards to the Brits!
 
Glenn,

From someone in the middle east right now, I am BEHIND you point of view the whole way!!! Keep fighting the good fight here and know I have read this post to many members in my shop (which happens to be Security Forces the AF equal to the Army MP's), and all everyone says is Get EM' GLENN.
 
Keep your head down and be safe over there brother.

Tell the members in your shop that there are a whole ton of Americans behind you all. Your efforts and successes ARE appreciated. :) Thanks again!
k9lowe said:
Glenn,

From someone in the middle east right now, I am BEHIND you point of view the whole way!!! Keep fighting the good fight here and know I have read this post to many members in my shop (which happens to be Security Forces the AF equal to the Army MP's), and all everyone says is Get EM' GLENN.
 
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