I missed the news.. True? Did he say this?

[ZomBrady]

There are a lot of people who would say there is no evil. There are worst things than Christian values. Some people just need to keep a foot firmly planted in a belief system and aren't real impressed with the "LAW" (the sound of thunder, lighting flashes and a surreal image of justice glowing on the horizon).
The other extreme is adults molesting your children, people dancing naked in the streets, copulating on street corners, passed out on the sidewalks. Google Love Parade, images.

Maybe some of both extremes are needed to find any sort of balance.

I would never say that evil doesn't exist. And 'chirstian values' aren't on trial here. What is on trial is idiot that thinks that those that don't believe what he believes are less than him.

 

[8Mud]

I would never say that evil doesn't exist. And 'chirstian values' aren't on trial here. What is on trial is idiot that thinks that those that don't believe what he believes are less than him.

There sure enough is a difference between a nudge and a kick in the arse.

He either sincerely means well or is just baiting you. I lean towards the later.

 

[ZomBrady]

There sure enough is a difference between a nudge and a kick in the arse.

He either sincerely means well or is just baiting you. I lean towards the later.

I'm so sick of people that 'mean well' trying to save me by insulting me, and I really don't think this cat is smart enough to bait someone on purposes.

 

[TRNDRVR]

I would never say that evil doesn't exist. And 'chirstian values' aren't on trial here. What is on trial is idiot that thinks that those that don't believe what he believes are less than him.

He's just jealous that we're all not weak minded, drug addicted, alcoholic, gay ex-con's such as himself.

 

[ZomBrady]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_EXqdJ4L7I

Funny stuff. I thought the one about gay animals was particularly funny.

 

[Darky]

Just to throw it out there, but I've never taken those verses as a direct insult when taken in context with the rest of the Bible. Verses like that and the Law are meant today to point out our shortcomings and need for God. Being a Christian doesn't make me smarter, better-looking, or better than you in any way, I do that naturally ( J/K). It's like the bumper sticker says, "Not perfect, just forgiven." Every Christian is a sinner; every non-Christian is a sinner. The key difference is that Christian's have recognized their state and repented and asked forgiveness. We still sin, we just strive not to. Hopefully that clears things up a little without fostering more debate...

 

[Darky]

He's just jealous that we're all not weak minded, drug addicted, alcoholic, gay ex-con's such as himself.

Seriously, you would annoy me even if I was on your side...You act like you have a guilty conscience but are afraid or unwilling to stop and think about it. Slow down, back up and do whatever you need to do to relax. The attack mode (even if you're just screwing around) gets old.

 

[TRNDRVR]

Just to throw it out there, but I've never taken those verses as a direct insult when taken in context with the rest of the Bible. Verses like that and the Law are meant today to point out our shortcomings and need for God. Being a Christian doesn't make me smarter, better-looking, or better than you in any way, I do that naturally ( J/K). It's like the bumper sticker says, "Not perfect, just forgiven." Every Christian is a sinner; every non-Christian is a sinner. The key difference is that Christian's have recognized their state and repented and asked forgiveness. We still sin, we just strive not to. Hopefully that clears things up a little without fostering more debate...

So......you're saying that because you read the bible and I don't, you know from right and wrong, know how to fix your wrongs, and I don't?

 

[8Mud]

Just to throw it out there, but I've never taken those verses as a direct insult when taken in context with the rest of the Bible. Verses like that and the Law are meant today to point out our shortcomings and need for God. Being a Christian doesn't make me smarter, better-looking, or better than you in any way, I do that naturally ( J/K). It's like the bumper sticker says, "Not perfect, just forgiven." Every Christian is a sinner; every non-Christian is a sinner. The key difference is that Christian's have recognized their state and repented and asked forgiveness. We still sin, we just strive not to. Hopefully that clears things up a little without fostering more debate...

Well said.

And to answer TRNDRVR, one of my prime tenants is to do the right thing whenever possible. At one time I was so far out there I had no idea what the right thing was. I once drove a tank through a field littered with hundreds of wounded civilians, they were between me and the enemy. Personally I had to take a few steps backwards, to make any progress. I got back to basics and started growing again in a new direction.
I'm nor promoting it, or even advocating it, it worked me after a fashion and likely kept me out of jail at a minimum, helped me keep my sanity after a fashion or more likely kept me out of a grave.
It is an alternative, though I don't believe the only alternative. I'm sure not willing to cut it loose because you think it's BS and maybe return to my old ways.
What I don't get is the need to attack somebody else's belief system, if it works don't fix it.

 

[Darky]

So......you're saying that because you read the bible and I don't, you know from right and wrong, know how to fix your wrongs, and I don't?

I won't debate with you because you have interest in an actual "debate"/conversation. Your goal is to cause "hate and discontent" as they used to say in the Marine Corps...
To answer your question, reread my post without coloring it to mean what you want.

 

[TRNDRVR]

You act like you have a guilty conscience but are afraid or unwilling to stop and think about it.

Everybody is guilty of something. Including myself. But it's nothing so bad that I have to succumb to imaginary fairy-tale characters to explain to myself why I was such a loser.

Sorry, but I tend to have the ability to stand for myself and not have to rely on a crutch to get through life. 46 years and its worked just fine so far.

:conceited

 

[Ray H]

Isn't obvious? Since god created everything including morality, those that deny his power and legitimacy also deny god's gift of morality. And without telling us what's right and wrong, we can't do what right. And therefor we atheists are horrible heathens who are responsible for all the evils in the world.

Its funny, Im a heathen who has been accepted into a family of christians (my wife and her family are baptists). The very first thing my wife liked about me, before we actually even met, was my high character and morals. We worked at the same place but had never met. One day I went to our payroll office to tell them they had made a mistake on my paycheck (they overpaid me). No one ever brought it to their attention for being "overpaid" before. My wife and I were both good friends of the payroll person and thats how we got hooked up. It was my "character and honesty" that she liked even before we had met.
Im pretty sure that the way this particular "heathen" conducts himself has changed their views of those people without faith. I know my views of the faithful have changed over the years. We have both become much more tolerant and respectful. I now understand how deeply rooted their faith is and that I wont be changing their beliefs any time soon. I think they feel the same about me. I dont think they look down on me for my beliefs, unfortunitely they do pitty me because they believe Im going to hell when I die. It does bother me some to be pittied but I can live with it and Im not worried about hell.
I pitty those folks who have never met anyone that changed their views on "heathens". Its a real shame to go through life knowing that everyone who doesnt believe the same as you are killers, rapists, ect.

 

[TRNDRVR]

Your goal is to cause "hate and discontent" as they used to say in the Marine Corps...

Hey now, are you calling me a republican?

To answer your question, reread my post without coloring it to mean what you want.

Can't answer my question, can you?

 

[Darky]

Its funny, Im a heathen who has been accepted into a family of christians (my wife and her family are baptists). The very first thing my wife liked about me, before we actually even met, was my high character and morals. We worked at the same place but had never met. One day I went to our payroll office to tell them they had made a mistake on my paycheck (they overpaid me). No one ever brought it to their attention for being "overpaid" before. My wife and I were both good friends of the payroll person and thats how we got hooked up. It was my "character and honesty" that she liked even before we had met.
Im pretty sure that the way this particular "heathen" conducts himself has changed their views of those people without faith. I know my views of the faithful have changed over the years. We have both become much more tolerant and respectful. I now understand how deeply rooted their faith is and that I wont be changing their beliefs any time soon. I think they feel the same about me. I dont think they look down on me for my beliefs, unfortunitely they do pitty me because they believe Im going to hell when I die. It does bother me some to be pittied but I can live with it and Im not worried about hell.
I pitty those folks who have never met anyone that changed their views on "heathens". Its a real shame to go through life knowing that everyone who doesnt believe the same as you are killers, rapists, ect.

See, I lived most of my life as a church-going heathen. I went to church regularly but didn't actually change anything based on it. I know that being a non-believer doesn't make you a rapist or murderer or other criminal, there's been plenty of professing Christian's who've committed plenty of crimes. As an easy example, listen to rap music. Half of them profess belief in God and acknowledge His hand in their life, but if they did even a quarter of what they rap about, they're worse off than 90% of society. I finally actually started to try to walk the walk of a Christian when I looked back over my life and so too many things I couldn't explain away as coincidence to deny His direction in my life. I'll hang out with believer or non-believer, doesn't matter to me.

Dan: A child knows right from wrong before even being able to read. Its ingrained in human nature. I've never claimed that you have to be a Christian to do the right thing. Like I said, reread my post:

Being a Christian doesn't make me smarter, better-looking, or better than you in any way, I do that naturally ( J/K). It's like the bumper sticker says, "Not perfect, just forgiven." Every Christian is a sinner; every non-Christian is a sinner.

 

[TRNDRVR]

Verses like that and the Law are meant today to point out our shortcomings and need for God.

What I can say here is that I don't have any "shortcomings" so bad that I need god. But the true "born-agains CAN'T believe that.

Not perfect, just forgiven."

Question.....why don't you try to forgive yourself?




Weak= Needs crutch to explain their faults

Strong= Stands for themselves and learns from their faults

That's how I see it.

 

[Ray H]

See, I lived most of my life as a church-going heathen. I went to church regularly but didn't actually change anything based on it. I know that being a non-believer doesn't make you a rapist or murderer or other criminal, there's been plenty of professing Christian's who've committed plenty of crimes. As an easy example, listen to rap music. Half of them profess belief in God and acknowledge His hand in their life, but if they did even a quarter of what they rap about, they're worse off than 90% of society. I finally actually started to try to walk the walk of a Christian when I looked back over my life and so too many things I couldn't explain away as coincidence to deny His direction in my life. I'll hang out with believer or non-believer, doesn't matter to me.

I know, my post wasnt directed at you. I have a feeling that you and I have more in common than we have differences. Really when It comes down to it, the biggest difference we have is our faith, or lack of it in my case. Our moral standards and the way we conduct ourselves are probably pretty similar.

 

[Darky]

Well, you can go on and be strong enough to not need to "prove" how strong you are everytime religion/faith is discussed.


Ray: I agree. Most of the threads we end up posting in we have fairly similar views. And like I said, I don't necessarily choose and reject people/friends based on their faith or lack thereof.
Hell, I could probably even sit down and have a beer with Dan here as long as we don't mention religion or politics...

 

[TRNDRVR]

What I don't get is the need to attack somebody else's belief system, if it works don't fix it.

"Only fools say in their hearts, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good!"
-Psalm 53:1

What comes around goes around!

 

[TRNDRVR]

Hell, I could probably even sit down and have a beer with Dan here as long as we don't mention religion or politics...

See you in JV. I'm buying! :cheers:

 

[ZomBrady]

Well, you can go on and be strong enough to not need to "prove" how strong you are everytime religion/faith is discussed.


Ray: I agree. Most of the threads we end up posting in we have fairly similar views. And like I said, I don't necessarily choose and reject people/friends based on their faith or lack thereof.
Hell, I could probably even sit down and have a beer with Dan here as long as we don't mention religion or politics...

Understand what TRNDVR is saying. I've had friends turn their lives around with the help of religion, but what they fail to see is that they are the ones who turned their lives around. They did the suffering. They kicked the addictions, they turned a shitty marriages into a good marriages. Yet they give all the credit to some non-existent deity. Did god lessen their suffering? Did god suffer for them so they wouldn't have to suffer all the crap in their lives? No. They still had to suffer it all on their own. So why on earth can't they take responsibility for the their own lives?