HP Super 30 VS. LP D44 w/axleshafts?

[goodburbon]

Would you be able to clear the calipers with a 15" wheel on the JK D44?

I don't know, but if not add a minimum of $250 for wheels and another $1000 for tires to the low low cost of using a JK 44 plus the $100 for rear spacers. It stops being a cheap and viable option pretty quickly.

 

[hot_rod_hooligans]

I considered going this route. Don't forget to add the cost of Wheels and spacer/adapters for the rear.

Just to clarify, the original plan was to get an XJ D44 for the rear, and a TJ D44 for the front (or JX D44 if I'm really lucky), for bolt-in purposes. But I have found that for nearly the same price as a built D44 for the front ($2600+), I can get both JK axles ($2800), and save myself the cost of having to buy/build an XJ D44 ($1500-2000). The way I see it, that 1500-2000 I'm saving on the rear XJ axle should cover the cost of having the JK axles welded up with XJ mounts. Wheels, tires (35"s), and lift(RE 5.5" LA) were all getting upgraded anyway, just hadn't planed on going 5-5 bolt pattern, only wider rims.

I started planning a JK axle swap but promptly killed it because I couldn't find jack shiat for wheels. Not wanting to spring for new tires too I tried to find a 15" 5x5 wheel with a good backspacing for my new axle. Came up with nothing, but only searched for about 2 hours total. let us know if you find something.

As for the wheels, I have done some searching, Cragar has a few 15x8 on 5-5 bolt pattern on there web site. Although I don't believe a 15" rim will clear the calipers on JK axles, as Quadratec only lists 16" and larger rims, and the factory JK steelies are also 16".

The reason I'm ok with buying new wheels, tires, and lift kit, after buying new axles, is the Jeep is getting a $10k(+?) facelift, when I get back from Kuwait next year.

 

[goodburbon]

Ah, I can't go that route as I already have tires, wheels, and a built 8.8 in the rear.

 

[goodburbon]

I saw the Cragar wheels as well, but the backspacing was way off for what I would need.

 

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

im going to throw out a whole other idea.. conflict sure to come....


to hell with the d44! in most cases

to me i think its plain stupid to go d44 for most people.

through my observation most people upgrade to a d44 be it LP or HP to upgrade to a larger tire size.

now some people do run 44s with 35s more on them later....


but i think its a bad idea to build a front 44 just so you can run 37s and break parts just like you had a d30 with 35s again......

lot of money spent for no reason.


i say with the inexpensive cost of HP60 center sections these days through currie......$600 for a rock jock III it would make more sense to build a d60 from scratch than upgrading 44 to wheelable status.

i bought a rare 79 ford hp d60......dumb move on my behalf...it would have much better suited someone planning to upgrade over a long period of time. while i got a smoking deal on it, i pretty much negated that by using only the inners c's, tubes and center section.....i would have been much better off with say a currie iron jock or solid d60....or even a spidertrax 609 housing....

spidertrax 609s are beyond cheap...but your gonna run into expense with the tru HI9 center, or you could uses a CHP 9" but those are weak. off topic sorry.


i think building a d60 on limited funds compared to a d44, for comparable strength and minimal cost is possible.


a stock dana 60 can be wheeled as such with little worry in comparison to mildly built d44s.....

your initial cost would be less for an axle with the strength of a completely polished d44 and then some and youll have the ability to upgrade it to run much bigger meats if need be.


now if you wheel a 30 and break parts and want to keep it on 35s and below maybe a d44 is the way to go for you.....if you want to run bigger tires than 35s.....



...go dana 60 or go home.

 

[Sierra Drifter]

to hell with the d44! in most cases.....
to me i think its plain stupid to go d44 for most people....
but i think its a bad idea to build a front 44 just so you can run 37s....

i think building a d60 on limited funds compared to a d44, for comparable strength and minimal cost is possible.

a stock dana 60 can be wheeled as such with little worry in comparison to mildly built d44s.....

...go dana 60 or go home.

Many people would agree with you on the D60. I considered going D60 and sometimes I wish I had. But every rebuildable housing I looked at locally was $1000-1200, four times the cost of the D44 housing. If I could have found a smoking deal on a HP D60 I would have gone that route. Also when you start comparing parts, every single part you put into a D60 is significantly more expensive unless you stay with stock. Knuckles, high steer, and aftermarket shafts and u-joints are ridiculously more expensive.

I think bottom line you have to start with tire size. I wanted to run 37's without breaking. After running my D44 with 4340 shafts and ujoints for over a year now, I haven't broken anything. But I don't really abuse it much either. If I wanted to run anything larger or even a more agressive 37, then I should have probably gone D60. It is interesting that there are several guys in my club who run 38.5 on D44's without issue, then there is one guy who has broken shafts and ujoints in his D44 with 35s. Go figure.

I'm satisfied with my rig on 37s. The sheet metal is all still there, it still looks good, I can drive to the trail at 75mph without wobbles and in relative comfort. I'm not planning on going any bigger.

 

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

I think bottom line you have to start with tire size. I wanted to run 37's without breaking.

take for instance cracker...


his hp d44 on 37" MTRs (not an extremely overweight 37 like a swamper or creepy) failed numerous times!

tons of broken warn premium hubs and warn stubs....

Many people would agree with you on the D60. I considered going D60 and sometimes I wish I had. But every rebuildable housing I looked at locally was $1000-1200, four times the cost of the D44 housing.

yes the housing is more expensive....but do you need alloys now?

no...stock d60 shafts are adequate for 37"s. so subtract the cost of alloys from your build.

hell if you have a 4:1 or better tcase you can almost get away with the stock 4:10 gears...

my point is that by spending the extra cash on a stock d60 axle and rebuilding the kingpins and regreasing/replacing the wheel bearings and welding mounts to it....and other small stuf...like steering and other things youd have to do to a d44 to run it anyways....

your cost/strength ratio is far better with the stock d60 in comparison to a d44 of any sort.

 

[JNickel101]

....I may or may not have a South American XJ HP D44 sitting in my storage shed back home....

A little info on them - they are basically a HP version of a Rubi D44 (without the air locker). Still has D30 outers, but does have a bit stronger ring gear. I plan to "Cal-ify" this axle (truss, sleeve, 30 spline inner/outer, good u-joints - probably go with the Alloy USA full 30 kit w/ 30 spline unitbearings) WJ knuckles and brakes, JKS steering (or similar). Just have to figure out the details - heims (or rod ends?) vs TREs, over or under knuckle (most likely over) - I also have to learn the difference between a heim joint and a rod end....I seem to be confusing the two from time to time.

Cal (or anyone else)....opinions, suggestions, thoughts? I'll be running 33s. No desire to go 37s, thats just crazy talk

 

[cal]

....I may or may not have a South American XJ HP D44 sitting in my storage shed back home....

A little info on them - they are basically a HP version of a Rubi D44 (without the air locker). Still has D30 outers, but does have a bit stronger ring gear. I plan to "Cal-ify" this axle (truss, sleeve, 30 spline inner/outer, good u-joints - probably go with the Alloy USA full 30 kit w/ 30 spline unitbearings) WJ knuckles and brakes, JKS steering (or similar). Just have to figure out the details - heims (or rod ends?) vs TREs, over or under knuckle (most likely over) - I also have to learn the difference between a heim joint and a rod end....I seem to be confusing the two from time to time.

Cal (or anyone else)....opinions, suggestions, thoughts? I'll be running 33s. No desire to go 37s, thats just crazy talk

I have been hearing bout these 44's for years, but no one has ever managed to come up with one yet - so I havent formed an opinion.

 

[cal]

take for instance cracker...


his hp d44 on 37" MTRs (not an extremely overweight 37 like a swamper or creepy) failed numerous times!

tons of broken warn premium hubs and warn stubs....

Cracker broke two stubs (known casting flaw and waranteed) and i think 1 hub, in like 3 years on that axle.

He just feels it was a waste of time because a 30 would have been as strong for 35's, and he was only on 37's for half a season before going to 42's with a 609.

 

[JNickel101]

I stole it from Hugo Chavez himself. Left one of his XJs up on blocks.

I thought they were a fantasy til I got my hands on one. HP30 with bigger ring gear, IMO. Thats it. Same outers, same tube, different shaped diff

The only thing I'm confused on with it is which ring/pinion to get. I know with Rubis, you have to get the "thick" gears, but since this is a HP axle, I cant just use Rubi gears, right?

It already has a 30 spline carrier and is geared to 4.10, but I think I wanna go 4.56....

 

[xDUMPTRUCKx]

well it must have been the extra weight from my fat ass in his passenger seat cause i remember popin hubs and stubs every time we went out in summer of 06'.....


but he isnt the only one to break parts on a d44 with 37s.....

Cracker broke two stubs (known casting flaw and waranteed) and i think 1 hub, in like 3 years on that axle.

He just feels it was a waste of time because a 30 would have been as strong for 35's, and he was only on 37's for half a season before going to 42's with a 609.

 

[cal]

well it must have been the extra weight from my fat ass in his passenger seat cause i remember popin hubs and stubs every time we went out in summer of 06'.....


but he isnt the only one to break parts on a d44 with 37s.....

I just talked to him, there was a total of the two mismanufactured stubs and 4 hubs in 3 years, and after considering circumstance he considers his "d44" carnage chart to just list 3 hubs, nothing else.

 

[rcmf5525]

I just talked to him, there was a total of the two mismanufactured stubs and 4 hubs in 3 years, and after considering circumstance he considers his "d44" carnage chart to just list 3 hubs, nothing else.

When some one says they broke a hub, they are talking about breaking the locking hubs, not the actual hub assy, right?

 

[cal]

When some one says they broke a hub, they are talking about breaking the locking hubs, not the actual hub assy, right?

Correct. Assuming the stub is ok, its a quick and easy fix that usually does not involve even removing the wheel.

 

[fubar XJ]

The main thing to keep i mind is where you want to take your rig, both now and in the future. If you're happy with 35" tires of reasonable design and weight (I would not include the TSL Bogger or even the TSL in a 14"-15" width here, very heavy tires) then a D30 should be fine for 90% of what you do. If you're a throttle-jockey who loves the rocks, skip the D44 and go straight to a D60 or 60/9 hybrid. I bore all of that in mind and decided upgrading the D30 was prudent for my uses and intentions with my XJ, so it got 4.88 gears, an Ox locker with that crazy thick cover, Yukon alloys and super-joints, so far I've been very happy with it.

And there is definitely a difference in D44s, depending on what it came out of. I have an 8 lug D44 in the front of my CJ, it has thicker, larger diameter tubes and bigger bearings, as it came out of a 3/4 ton '77 Chevy. The only issue I have had was snapping u-joints because I hadn't set the steering stops properly. A tight turn radius is nice, but not at the cost of snapping u-joints and ruining alloys once or more a year. The 3/4 ton D44 is the only one I'd choose to build for the 38.5" SXs I run, and it has held up well.

YMMV, it all depends on what you want to do with your rig.

 

[rcmf5525]

well put...