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HP Super 30 VS. LP D44 w/axleshafts?

I keep forgetting how cheep the JK 44's are, $2,800 for both is cheeper than most front D44's I've found, in addition to having discs, cross over steering, larger ball joints, larger bolt pattern, and wider track. The big reason I was trying to stay away from them was the amount of custom work that would need to go into using them. I guess the $1500-2000 I'd save trying to buy/build XJ/TJ D44's could easily cover the cost of the mounting brackets and mods to the steering and brakes to make everything work correctly. Besides, if the JK tubes have a tendency of cracking, I guess I could have them sleeved. As for finding a shop, I don't know of many 4WD shops around here besides Four Wheel Parts, but I live in Indianapolis, and it is said to be "The Racing Capitol of the World". Surely there has to be a shop capable of doing the work, even if they aren't used to doing 4X4 stuff.
 
hot_rod_hooligans said:
I keep forgetting how cheep the JK 44's are, $2,800 for both is cheeper than most front D44's I've found, in addition to having discs, cross over steering, larger ball joints, larger bolt pattern, and wider track. The big reason I was trying to stay away from them was the amount of custom work that would need to go into using them. I guess the $1500-2000 I'd save trying to buy/build XJ/TJ D44's could easily cover the cost of the mounting brackets and mods to the steering and brakes to make everything work correctly. Besides, if the JK tubes have a tendency of cracking, I guess I could have them sleeved. As for finding a shop, I don't know of many 4WD shops around here besides Four Wheel Parts, but I live in Indianapolis, and it is said to be "The Racing Capitol of the World". Surely there has to be a shop capable of doing the work, even if they aren't used to doing 4X4 stuff.
If you do go that route, please keep us up to date on how they hold up... 44s with lockers for <3k is nice... I am 2 wheel studs away from finishing up my D44/D60 full size axle build. I have about $2500 in the two total. I have stayed with stock shafts, 'till they break, and went with spools to keep the dollar amount low. I have 4 wheel disc, and not the little discs or calipers we find on our precious jeeps, huge 2 piston calipers and 13" rotars up front and some sort of GM single piston truck caliper and 13" rotars in the rear. The 44 is trussed, more for mounting brackets and spring buckets than added strength, have flipped the tie rod and am using 1 ton TREs. That is budget built in my mind...

edit: the 44 is LP from a '76 F250 high boy (D44 6cf-hd). got the set for $150. I couldnt pass it up...
 
rcmf5525 said:
If you do go that route, please keep us up to date on how they hold up... 44s with lockers for <3k is nice... I am 2 wheel studs away from finishing up my D44/D60 full size axle build. I have about $2500 in the two total. I have stayed with stock shafts, 'till they break, and went with spools to keep the dollar amount low. I have 4 wheel disc, and not the little discs or calipers we find on our precious jeeps, huge 2 piston calipers and 13" rotars up front and some sort of GM single piston truck caliper and 13" rotars in the rear. The 44 is trussed, more for mounting brackets and spring buckets than added strength, have flipped the tie rod and am using 1 ton TREs. That is budget built in my mind...

edit: the 44 is LP from a '76 F250 high boy (D44 6cf-hd). got the set for $150. I couldnt pass it up...

Thanks but I think it may be close to a year before anything really starts, I trying to get deployed ASAP to the Gulf, and give me a large some of money to play with when I get back, but nothing is set in stone yet, just scribbled on a napkin for now.

Hopefully if all goes well, next summer the jeep will be getting:
Rubicon Express 5.5" long arm lift kit, Bilstein shocks, JK D44's f/r, 35x12.5 BFG MT KM2's, SYE, 4.5 or 4.6 stroker instal w/ ported/polished head off an '05 Rubicon, JBA header and custom cat back, C-rok rear bumper, Thor quarter panel armor, and some skid plates.
 
Sierra Drifter said:
Don't do either. Dont invest a lot in a D30, and the Rubi D44 isn't much of an upgrade, not worth the expense to swap in.

They way people justify their decisions is interesting, but consider the following.

Everyone touts the high pinion reverse cut gears engaged on the driver side as if that was enough to make the D30 a better axle. 4.56 gears in a D30 gives you a tiny pinion with only 9 teeth on it, mated with a 7.2" ring gear with 41 teeth. Hold them in your had and turn the pinion in the ring gear and you will see how little engagement you really have. I don't care if its coast side, drive side, east side or whatever, you've got very little contact area engaged, 4.88s are even worse. A low pinion 44 has more contact even if it is on the coast side.

You can truss the D30, and throw bank a vault door on it as a diff cover, but nothing you do will change the size and strength of the carrier, ring&pinion, bearings etc. And there is no way to prvent the deflection that pulls the pinion away from the ring gear. You might be able to beef up a D30 to rival a D44, but at what cost? and then what? A D44 can be built to rival stock D60.

The dana 44 housing is larger and stronger in every dimension. Thicker tubes, stiffer housing, more ribs, bigger carrier bearings, larger pinion bearing, way better wheel bearing configuration, bigger and better balljoints, manual locking hubs, etc. The only part in the D44 that is the same size is the axle shaft ujoints, but that is a good argument to go with a D60, it is not a good aruguement to go with a D30, and there are several good aftermarket ujoints available.

Also, all D44s are not created equal. A Ford 3/4 ton D44 is stronger and stiffer than a D44 from a Waggy or Scout. The cost to install any front D44 in an XJ is pretty much equally expensive. As such, there is no reason to start with an inferior housing. Even if the better Ford HP D44 housing costs you a couple hundred more at the JY, it is well worth it as it will only be small fraction of the total cost. High steer is easier and cheaper to implement on a D44 because it can be done with stock flattop knuckles, on a D30? If you go with junkyard HP D44 get the matching rear and solve your width and lug pattern issues at the same time. BTW, D60 rears can be had for $100 all day long.

As I see it you have only 3 options that really make sense:

Custom built axle from Currie, Dynatrack, Foothill, Solid etc. - expensive but bolt on with a warrantee.

HP D44 from a late 70s Ford. (78-79 F250 being best in my opinion) - cheaper but the most work, lots of options.

Or buy a set of JK D44 axles and cut and replace the brackets. - $1400 each, high pinion, selectable locker, warrantee, 65" wide. Not a bad deal at all. Although I've read about issues with tubes cracking.

If you can't do one of these, just run your stock D30 and fix whatever breaks.

Read a bunch of build threads, ask questions, plan the whole thing out, don't forget to plan a solution for with lug patterns, track width, brakes, and steering.
Sums up my opinion nicely. Just please, please, please don't spend thousands of dollars on a fawking D30. If you're going to buy nice, expensive parts, at least bolt them to an axle that will allow it to grow with your Jeep...because I promise you it will. You will want bigger tires some day...it's an immutable fact of the universe.

-----Matt-----
 
IXNAYXJ said:
Sums up my opinion nicely. Just please, please, please don't spend thousands of dollars on a fawking D30. If you're going to buy nice, expensive parts, at least bolt them to an axle that will allow it to grow with your Jeep...because I promise you it will. You will want bigger tires some day...it's an immutable fact of the universe.

-----Matt-----

x2 i did 44s because i wanted 37s on an XJ since it is RARE in Tampa...now iwant 42s after running my jeep for 2 months :(
 
ChrisRFewell said:
x2 i did 44s because i wanted 37s on an XJ since it is RARE in Tampa...now iwant 42s after running my jeep for 2 months :(

what gears did you go with?
 
ChrisRFewell said:
im still on the 37s with 5.13 gears/aw4/231/4.0

Im going with 4.88s. You think they will be too high?
 
rcmf5525 said:
Im going with 4.88s. You think they will be too high?

if you have the aw4 i would HIGHLY recommend the 5.13s...its great off road and i can cruise at 65mph at about 2200rmps...perfect...and i can do 90 without even pushing it..
 
That should put me a about 2k at 65. Not to bad... Strange though. All the gear ratio charts say around 500 rpm higher than you claim. Any theory?
 
rcmf5525 said:
That should put me a about 2k at 65. Not to bad... Strange though. All the gear ratio charts say around 500 rpm higher than you claim. Any theory?


Most of those charts don't account for an overdrive. The final ratio on the aw4 is .70:1 for renix and .75:1 for HO, not 1:1 like the charts use.
 
cal said:
Most of those charts don't account for an overdrive. The final ratio on the aw4 is .70:1 for renix and .75:1 for HO, not 1:1 like the charts use.

I just found a calculator that said 2160 for 37s and 4.88 with a .75 FDR. That sounds good to me...
 
AW4, 1st gear, 4lo, 10mph, 32s, 3.55 = 2842.9 rpm
37s, 4.88 = 3379.9 rpm
37s, 5.13 = 3553.1 rpm
That is not as big of a jump as I would have hoped. Maybe I should have gone with 5.13s...

:doh:
 
rcmf5525 said:
AW4, 1st gear, 4lo, 10mph, 32s, 3.55 = 2842.9 rpm
37s, 4.88 = 3379.9 rpm
37s, 5.13 = 3553.1 rpm
That is not as big of a jump as I would have hoped. Maybe I should have gone with 5.13s...

:doh:


With a 4.0, I personally feel 5.13 and 35's wouldnt be all that bad. I'd hate to be running 4.88's and 37's.

Then again, Goatman runs 4.56 with 40's on his competition rig, and only an atlas 3.8 for the trail.
 
my brother runs 5:38's on 33's on his tj. he also has a 4:1 but its nice to idle over obstacles in 3rd gear.. He has super44's front and rear.. d44 and super hp 30 are going to have the same weak link which is going to be the outer stub of the axle and the u-joint..

my brothers superior shaft after last weekend

PICT0870.jpg


but also look what caliber guys were running with. My brother only pulled a winch line once the whole day and ran every obstacle untill it went pow..

PICT0866.jpg


PICT0857.jpg


the gearing in 2nd gear with 538's and 4:1

http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/...al wheeling/?action=view&current=PICT0828.flv
 
Believe me, if I can get my hands on a Venezuelan XJ HP D44 front, in my travels, I would love to mount it up with an XJ D44 rear. Who knows, some where I heard all the Jeep export D44's were HP, maybe I'll find one for a TJ somewhere.

In the mean time, unless I can find a bolt in HP D44, I'm going with the JK D44's from Mopar.
 
hot_rod_hooligans said:
In the mean time, unless I can find a bolt in HP D44, I'm going with the JK D44's from Mopar.

I considered going this route. Don't forget to add the cost of Wheels and spacer/adapters for the rear. I started planning a JK axle swap but promptly killed it because I couldn't find jack shiat for wheels. Not wanting to spring for new tires too I tried to find a 15" 5x5 wheel with a good backspacing for my new axle. Came up with nothing, but only searched for about 2 hours total. let us know if you find something.
 
goodburbon said:
I considered going this route. Don't forget to add the cost of Wheels and spacer/adapters for the rear. I started planning a JK axle swap but promptly killed it because I couldn't find jack shiat for wheels. Not wanting to spring for new tires too I tried to find a 15" 5x5 wheel with a good backspacing for my new axle. Came up with nothing, but only searched for about 2 hours total. let us know if you find something.

Would you be able to clear the calipers with a 15" wheel on the JK D44?
 
hot_rod_hooligans said:
Ok, so what should I get? HP D30's are a dime a dozen, found one for $100 on JF. Plus about $2000 for locker/axles, gears, bearings. Plus labor to instal ($500?).



Now trying to find A D44 has been a little harder, did find one with an OX locker 4.88's and A(1) chromoly axle shaft for $2500, but I want an ARB and 4.56's.

Or Genuine Gear has a complete bolt in for $3,180 w/ ARB, Alloys, and 4.56's, plus outer knuckles, and brakes.

Though I have found that Currie sells a custom made-to-order D44 housing for $600, plus $1,740 for locker/axles hafts, gears, bearings, plus outer knuckles, and brakes. Plus labor to instal.

Hrmmm, maybe the D44 isn't so expensive.....
Keep in mind that most of those bolt in D44s are basically like the rubi 44s, D44 inners, and D30 outers.
 
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