Homebrew Over the Knuckle Tie Rod Flip

[Tally_XJ]

good write up. ive been wondering if this could be done. some one showed us it could be done. one question. i did not see or read where the steering stabilizer is now mounted. i have done the flip on the right side. also no longer run the sway bar.

So far I have not remounted the steering stabilizer and it appears as if it is not needed for mine. I am having ZERO steering or driving issues without the stabilizer or the sway bar. Although I do like the added stability offered by the anti sway bar. It just seems to drive so much better on the road with it connected. Without it the body rolls so much when going through a dip in the road that it is felt and I don't like it.

I do plan to build the link mounts for the sway bar and I may even build a new mount for the stabilizer but for now I am good.

As to where the steering stabilizer mount WILL go is yet to be determined but it looks as if I can fab a new one and mount is slightly higher than what it was originally. It was only removed because it was angled outward enough that it contacted the left inner tie rod end where it attaches to the drag link. It only needs to move back about a half inch. It it wasn't part of the track bar mount it would have been easier to modify.

 

[Tally_XJ]

Now, in another forum where I posted this, someone posted concern that the left tie rod angle was too steep and might bind the left outer tie rod end (at the left knuckle) when the axle is at full droop. I don't see how this would be an issue as the entire left tie rod assembly swivels at the attachment point on the drag link. It would take a lot of droop to bind up I think.

 

[WB9YZU]

Nice thread...
Well documented

Now, being as this is XJ Mod Tech, will it work on an XJ ???

 

[XJEEPER]

Who's the manufacturer of your die grinder?

 

[imtiredzzzz]

Install the insert into the hole. You will need to lightly tap it to make it seat all the way.

I have a question about the Goforit flip insert and the 1/8" of material it adds...

How large is the diameter of the "lip" on the top of the insert?? Also, how long is the insert?

I'm thinking that it would be easy to find the appropriately sized counterbore bit, or endmill, to put a counterbore in the top of the hole. That would sink the insert down an 1/8" and keep you from having to grind the bottom of the steering arm. The just weld around the top and grind smooth for the TRE.

Or could you just ream the hole from the top side?... using the correct tapered reamer.

 

[kastein]

Nice writeup. I did this, minus the flip... i.e. I slapped a V8 ZJ tie rod on and called it a day. One of your pics, you have the tie rod in backwards btw... with the adjuster sleeve at the drag link end. It's supposed to go the other way, not sure how it will affect clearance on the sway bar links, coil buckets, diff cover, and track bar + stabilizer mount.

EDIT: seems I can't read :dunce: you mentioned that.

 

[mrblaine]

Now, in another forum where I posted this, someone posted concern that the left tie rod angle was too steep and might bind the left outer tie rod end (at the left knuckle) when the axle is at full droop. I don't see how this would be an issue as the entire left tie rod assembly swivels at the attachment point on the drag link. It would take a lot of droop to bind up I think.

That's not something you should speculate about. Test it and see. Put the rig on jackstands under the body, pull the tires and droop out the front axle with the draglink disconnected at the knuckle. If you can reinstall it and get the pin to go back in easily, there is no bind.

The reason for my suggestion is a lot of XJ owners have overtravelled the Currie steering on that side and ruined draglinks at full droop.

The Currie draglink also has more angle to have it be more in the middle of it's travel than the stocker does, so that means it's going even further than a stocker will.

If you do find you are close, you can toss it in a shop press and add some bend to that end to get you the travel you need so you don't ruin it. Yes, I'm aware it's on top and should be better, but RH drive draglinks don't grow on trees, so it won't hurt to know for sure.

 

[lyleorszulak807]

just wondering if you have bumpsteer, I know you said it drives great and all but that trackbar and draglink is not parallel by any means. Most guys that do this end up having to move the axle side trackbar up on the axle.

 

[DeftwillP]

Thank you and, yes, I do know this is not new. I have yet, though, to see this conversion fully documented, with pics of each step, and a complete list of parts and tools needed. That is the only reason I did it was to fully detail and document this.

All good. As I said, very well documented. Carry on.

 

[Tally_XJ]

Nice thread...
Well documented

Now, being as this is XJ Mod Tech, will it work on an XJ ???

Yep! Its in the post details. This mod works on ALL the models that have the same steering setup (factory) including the XJ. I still consider myself an XJ, sort of. That was my roots anyway. My ZJ is identical to an XJ up front . . . except that crappy low pinion D30 :bawl:

Who's the manufacturer of your die grinder?

Mac Tools

I have a question about the Goforit flip insert and the 1/8" of material it adds...

How large is the diameter of the "lip" on the top of the insert?? Also, how long is the insert?

I honestly don't know. I didn't measure it first. The outside diameter of the insert (the smaller diameter) is 3/4". The lip adds about 1/8" diameter.

I'm thinking that it would be easy to find the appropriately sized counterbore bit, or endmill, to put a counterbore in the top of the hole. That would sink the insert down an 1/8" and keep you from having to grind the bottom of the steering arm. Then just weld around the top and grind smooth for the TRE.

I had considered the very same thing but I had no access to a drill press or to a counter sink bit at the time. I believe that is an excellent idea though.

Or could you just ream the hole from the top side?... using the correct tapered reamer.

Many have done it that way but a tapered reamer is usually pretty expensive. I believe it is a 7* taper?

Nice writeup. I did this, minus the flip... i.e. I slapped a V8 ZJ tie rod on and called it a day. One of your pics, you have the tie rod in backwards btw... with the adjuster sleeve at the drag link end. It's supposed to go the other way, not sure how it will affect clearance on the sway bar links, coil buckets, diff cover, and track bar + stabilizer mount.

EDIT: seems I can't read :dunce: you mentioned that.

Yes. I had read somewhere that the tie rod adjuster could be placed in that position but I didn't like it there.

just wondering if you have bumpsteer, I know you said it drives great and all but that trackbar and draglink is not parallel by any means. Most guys that do this end up having to move the axle side trackbar up on the axle.

I have no bump steer whatsoever and I don't know why. I am replacing the pitman arm with a much shorter one to raise the drag link tie rod end up two inches. This should put the two back on the same plane. Still, I promise you there is absolutely no bump steer.

 

[lyleorszulak807]

Curious to know how much lift you running up front?

 

[Tally_XJ]

Curious to know how much lift you running up front?

I have the Rubicon Express 4.5" lift springs front and rear with a 3/4" spacer atop the rear coils to bring the a$$ end up a little higher than the front. I do believe that the RE coils have actually yielded more than the 4.5" though and I think I am probably sitting at 5" or more. For the moment I am on RE Super Ride control arms until I get my IRO Critical Path Long Arm Upgrade.

 

[lyleorszulak807]

How much did you end up spending on everything? Ever go out and test and make sure the linkages weren't binding? Contemplating doing this my self, already have the ZJ tie rod and draglink and my angles are good but I get some binding at full droop and bump.

 

[Tally_XJ]

How much did you end up spending on everything? Ever go out and test and make sure the linkages weren't binding? Contemplating doing this my self, already have the ZJ tie rod and draglink and my angles are good but I get some binding at full droop and bump.

I bought everything brand new with Moog rod ends so I have over $300 in it all. I have driven it daily since the install but I have not flexed it out yet to check binding. I will do that Monday.

Do you suppose I will have bind? If so, where do you think it will occur?

I have looked at it a lot and it seems to me that if the angles of all of the steering rods are now flatter than they were then bind should not be as much of an issue as it would have been with under the knuckle?

That was the purpose for doing this was to take some of the steep angle out of the drag link.

 

[lyleorszulak807]

Yeah my draglink on both ends are at some nasty angles with the 5.5" deaver springs. I get binding at both ends when drooped but not when bumped, thats because of the angles of course. Since your TRE's look pretty straight I dont think you get binding but always good idea to check.

I don't know if I would spend 300+ bucks or just order the currie steering. Of course cons of currie is replaceable TRE's not at autozone or local shop have to order and its still under the knuckle. But then again I do like how the TRE's are bent at an angle to make them more parallel to the mounting surface (knuckes and pitman arm). I am really intrigued that you don't have bump steer or other issues considering the angles of the draglink and trackbar. I am no means a pro but every steering thread I come across says that they should be parallel, maybe yours is the exception

 

[Tally_XJ]

I am really intrigued that you don't have bump steer or other issues considering the angles of the draglink and trackbar. I am no means a pro but every steering thread I come across says that they should be parallel, maybe yours is the exception

I understand and I have tried to make it bump steer to see if it would. Cannot get it to do it. I have no idea why it wont. Not complaining though.

It drives really well, as is, all but for some wandering and such. I believe that is in my rear arms. All of the bushings are shot out back. I had the same wandering, only worse, before I did this conversion.

Oh well, I am still headed to pick-N-Pull tomorrow for a couple of shorter pitman arms to correct my drag link to track bar angle.

 

[littleblackxj]

Good writeup. I did the same thing to my jeep a couple weeks ago and it turned out great. Here's a little writeup I did.
This is going to be a short write up on how I did my OTK conversion.

Parts you will need:
Stock tapered inserts
Right hand drive drag link (if your jeep is a RHD you will need a LHD drag link)
Angle grinder or sawzaw
A 19mm and 15mm socket
Vice grips or large channel locks
A hammer, preferably a BFH
Seperating fork (you may not need it, but anticipate needing it)

First thing is first, get your front tires off the ground.

Now remove your steering linkages. The best way I found was to remove the tie rod from the drag link first, then the steering stabilizer. On the drag-link, you only need to pull it off from the knuckle and un-thread it out of the adjustment sleeve, there is no need to remove the TRE from the pitman arm. This part of the process is probably going to be the most difficult as the TRE do not like to come out. Fortunately for me I was able to get them all out with a couple good wacks with a hammer. You may have to use a seperating fork or another means as they can be very stubborn.

Once you have everything off you can begin work modifying the knuckle. If you are using the teraflex inserts like I am, the hole needs to be drilled out to 3/4". The best way to do this would be on a drill press, which would require you to remove the knuckle, but I was able to do it with a hand drill. Just make sure to get the holes perfectly vertical and centered.

Once the holes are drilled out, clean the surrounding area down to metal as you will need to weld onto it. Drop the insert into the hole, and weld it into place. Ensure the hole is cleaned of debris and metal shavings.

These welds are not crucial, but need to be strong enough to stay inplace if you were to take out the TRE in the future. I was using a fluxcore welder (I don't recommend it, use gas if you can), so i had some slag inside the hole. Make sure to grind down the welds as needed so the top of the insert is completely flat.

At this point, you can mock everything back together and see where there are clearance issues. The stock sway bar links were an issue for me, as well as the steering stabilizer hitting the draglink at full lock. This may not be an issue if your jeep is lifted higher though. I cut off the sway bar links and removed the steering stabilizer. The steering stablizer mount has to be relocated, or moved up higher. Also keep in mind that the tapered hole on the draglink will be backwards, and you will need to drill it out and put in another insert in the same way as the knuckle.

Once the clearance issues have been fixed, bolt everything back up.

You will need to recenter the steering wheel by adjusting the draglink, as well as an alignment as the tie rod adjustment will be off. You will also need to relocate the axle side trackbar up to keep the steering angles parallel so you won't have issues with bump-steer. I haven't had time to do this yet, but i'll be sure to post pictures when I do :thumbsup:

I had problems though with the steering stablizer. At full passenger lock it binds on the drag link. I'm going to relocate the mount once I relocate the trackbar mount.

 

[lyleorszulak807]

So do you get bump steer with those angles? Better or worse than before?

 

[merryflip]

Thank you so very much for sharing your information with me.