goodburbon
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Westcliffe Colorado.
There were highway gains on one tank.
-
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Goodburbon's hydrogen experiment
- Thread starter goodburbon
- Start date
- Location
- MilkyWay Galaxy
Some quick thoughts. I agree with Goodburbon about it not being worth the trouble for many of us, probably has something to do with why Detroit has not made it an equipment option (assuming it works). That said, from what I have read everywhere, Goodburbon's water consumtion rate seems to be way to high for just electrolysis production, consumption. Guessing it is still sucking water vapor plus HHO gas, and maybe still be leaking under hard vacuum. I think part of the trick of making it work, and getting it to not be a pain to keep up with, has to do with coming up with a fairly maintenence free design. But even then I have trouble filling my windshield washer bottle, LOL.
I am toying with my ideas of using about 4" SS tube and maybe a graphite round rod for a center electrode, and using a sch. 40 SS pipe (as the ground) threaded with a viton O-ring seal like that used in an industrial liquid filter assy. Or something much more solid than PVC that can handle the engine vacuum. Look at how solid and flat and sealed the intake manifold to throttle body and engine head are designed to avoid intake vacuum leaks. I still say the glass bottle plastic caps and PVC pipe rigs are just too hard to keep sealed.
My thanks to Goodburbon for running this test. :yelclap:
OH, and I hope your all's Hurricane headaches have been small.
I am toying with my ideas of using about 4" SS tube and maybe a graphite round rod for a center electrode, and using a sch. 40 SS pipe (as the ground) threaded with a viton O-ring seal like that used in an industrial liquid filter assy. Or something much more solid than PVC that can handle the engine vacuum. Look at how solid and flat and sealed the intake manifold to throttle body and engine head are designed to avoid intake vacuum leaks. I still say the glass bottle plastic caps and PVC pipe rigs are just too hard to keep sealed.
My thanks to Goodburbon for running this test. :yelclap:
OH, and I hope your all's Hurricane headaches have been small.
goodburbon
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Westcliffe Colorado.
The PVC not being stout enough is a non-issue. If you make the body out of stainless make sure you ground it solidly and secure it better than I did. PVC being non conductive, all I had to do was find a place that it wouldn't flop around and would be well away from the exhaust manifold.
I drove the car to work this morning. well, almost to work. I think the engine jumped timing and when I opened the hood to check it out I found that I had also burned the 25 amp fuse. Probably formed a corrosion bridge during the time I haven't been using it.
I drove the car to work this morning. well, almost to work. I think the engine jumped timing and when I opened the hood to check it out I found that I had also burned the 25 amp fuse. Probably formed a corrosion bridge during the time I haven't been using it.
bcmaxx
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- The West Kootenays,B.C. Canada
SO PROJECT FAIL? or the end result is simply not worth it?
goodburbon
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Westcliffe Colorado.
There is some merit to it, but to be effective in my opinion you would need several (at least 3) cells in series to reduce the voltage in each cell. Then you would need some sort of a gauge on it so that you could monitor water levels as you drove, Then you would need some sort of a test or just do a complete dump and clean every time you empty the cell to keep electrolyte levels even. Then the mileage gains seen are mild.
At the current $3 per gallon if you burn 1 tank a week, that extra 30 miles out of a tank would add up to an extra 20 gallons every 10 fill ups or $60 every 2.5 months. It could concievably pay for itself within a few months if you don't include the time you spend maintaining it, tweaking it, etc. Also consider that my setup cost around 40 bucks and was nowhere near what it would need to be for a constant use system. That is also if you saw a consistent 10% increase in mileage, which I never saw.
For me, it's not worth the time/ pain in the ass.
At the current $3 per gallon if you burn 1 tank a week, that extra 30 miles out of a tank would add up to an extra 20 gallons every 10 fill ups or $60 every 2.5 months. It could concievably pay for itself within a few months if you don't include the time you spend maintaining it, tweaking it, etc. Also consider that my setup cost around 40 bucks and was nowhere near what it would need to be for a constant use system. That is also if you saw a consistent 10% increase in mileage, which I never saw.
For me, it's not worth the time/ pain in the ass.
Thanks for doing this and posting the results. Are you willing to keep messing with it? I'd move the gas intake from after the throttle body to before. This'll keep high vaccume from boiling the water, and it'll still put the h2 o2 gas in.
Not that I expect it to affect mpg much, but it'd be easier to keep up with.
Not that I expect it to affect mpg much, but it'd be easier to keep up with.
DeftwillP
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Round Rock TX
Burbon,
Bring your hydrogen death machine to Barnwell so we can blow stuff up.
Bring your hydrogen death machine to Barnwell so we can blow stuff up.
goodburbon
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Westcliffe Colorado.
ooooh there;s an idea I like
Fastdemise
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Beaverton, OR
From what I have read it seems a good 3 jars would be needed to produce enough H2O2 to enhance your MPG. I can see how if I just relocate the battery to inside my Jeep (maybe?) I could use that spot to instal 3 or more jars or whatever you buy/make to a solid foundtion and a easy spot to check and maintain. I don't like the idea of it being inside the car due do my little fear of hydrogen leak...even though the heat of the engine doesn't seem to scare me for some reason. I'm still new to this but it seems almost too easy that sometime soon with a bit or research I'll be doing it. Who knows maybe I'll be the first 30+ MPG 4.0 :roflmao: Jealous Much?
goodburbon
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Westcliffe Colorado.
You can freaking have it, 30mpg ain't happening in an XJ with a 4.0.
- Location
- MilkyWay Galaxy
http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/11/the-40-mpg-450.html
Partial text:
"
A Texas startup has finally pulled the wraps off its 40-mpg, 450-horsepower Scorpion roadster, a hand-built hydrogen-burning "eco-exotic" that is sexier than Angelina Jolie and has the performance to provide more grins than nitrous oxide.
Ronn Motor Company unveiled the Scorpion today at the big SEMA, or Speciality Equipment Market Association, automotive trade show in Las Vegas, which may be the perfect place to debut so flashy — and innovative — a car. The company hopes the Scorpion does for hydrogen what the Tesla Roadster has done for batteries.
"We want to build cool cars, just more responsibly”, company president Ronn Maxwell told Wired.com. "Our hope with the Scorpion is to implement a paradigm shift not only in how the industry looks at supercars but at cars in general."
We got a sneak peak of Scorpion #001 as it was being unloaded at the Las Vegas Convention Center...
The Scorpion gets its sting from a hydrogen delivery system the company calls H2GO. While cars like the Honda FCX Clarity and Chevrolet Equinox use hydrogen fuel cells to drive electric motors, the Scorpion uses electrolysis to convert water into gaseous hydrogen. The hydrogen is mixed with 91-octane gasoline to improve the fuel economy and reduce the emissions of the car's 3.5-liter internal combustion engine.
Maxwell, a 40-year auto industry vet and lifelong gearhead who holds several patents, is using the limited production — just 200 will be built — Scorpion to prove the technology works and legitimize the H2GO system the company will begin selling for $1,000 early next year. The way he sees it, if H2GO works on the Scorpion, it'll work on your Civic.
Maxwell didn't offer much in the way of specifics, saying the publicly traded company is still dotting the i's and crossing the t's on the venture. But he says H2GO is good for a 15 percent to 33 percent improvement in mileage, a noticeable increase in power and a significant reduction in overall emissions. The company is pursuing EPA certification of the Scorpion so people can get a better idea of what the system is capable of. Maxwell insists the 40-mpg figure is the real deal.
The trucking industry has been using hydrogen boosting for years. But the Scorpion is significant because it uses what the company calls real-time hydrogen delivery as part of an original factory design. And unlike BMW’s Hydrogen 7, Scorpion does not keep any 30-gallon tanks full of liquid hydrogen lying around at −253 °C (−423.4 °F)."............
Partial text:
"
A Texas startup has finally pulled the wraps off its 40-mpg, 450-horsepower Scorpion roadster, a hand-built hydrogen-burning "eco-exotic" that is sexier than Angelina Jolie and has the performance to provide more grins than nitrous oxide.
Ronn Motor Company unveiled the Scorpion today at the big SEMA, or Speciality Equipment Market Association, automotive trade show in Las Vegas, which may be the perfect place to debut so flashy — and innovative — a car. The company hopes the Scorpion does for hydrogen what the Tesla Roadster has done for batteries.
"We want to build cool cars, just more responsibly”, company president Ronn Maxwell told Wired.com. "Our hope with the Scorpion is to implement a paradigm shift not only in how the industry looks at supercars but at cars in general."
We got a sneak peak of Scorpion #001 as it was being unloaded at the Las Vegas Convention Center...
The Scorpion gets its sting from a hydrogen delivery system the company calls H2GO. While cars like the Honda FCX Clarity and Chevrolet Equinox use hydrogen fuel cells to drive electric motors, the Scorpion uses electrolysis to convert water into gaseous hydrogen. The hydrogen is mixed with 91-octane gasoline to improve the fuel economy and reduce the emissions of the car's 3.5-liter internal combustion engine.
Maxwell, a 40-year auto industry vet and lifelong gearhead who holds several patents, is using the limited production — just 200 will be built — Scorpion to prove the technology works and legitimize the H2GO system the company will begin selling for $1,000 early next year. The way he sees it, if H2GO works on the Scorpion, it'll work on your Civic.
Maxwell didn't offer much in the way of specifics, saying the publicly traded company is still dotting the i's and crossing the t's on the venture. But he says H2GO is good for a 15 percent to 33 percent improvement in mileage, a noticeable increase in power and a significant reduction in overall emissions. The company is pursuing EPA certification of the Scorpion so people can get a better idea of what the system is capable of. Maxwell insists the 40-mpg figure is the real deal.
The trucking industry has been using hydrogen boosting for years. But the Scorpion is significant because it uses what the company calls real-time hydrogen delivery as part of an original factory design. And unlike BMW’s Hydrogen 7, Scorpion does not keep any 30-gallon tanks full of liquid hydrogen lying around at −253 °C (−423.4 °F)."............
hot_rod_hooligans
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Indianapolis
Nevermind
Fastdemise
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Beaverton, OR
Now I've seen people here on 
doing mason jar trials and such but would anybody have the ability to do a dry cell? Make it have several cells to keep voltage down and have a substantial amount of production for amp draw. With a bubbler/reservoir maintaining levels would be solved and a simple flame arrestor would put at ease all fears of a spark causing catastrophic failure. I think that even though you did the work and in the end you get no better MPG or worse your still doing better off than before. Just due to the fact that your getting a cleaner burn of your fuel now should help lessen the amount of carbon buildup you get.
doing mason jar trials and such but would anybody have the ability to do a dry cell? Make it have several cells to keep voltage down and have a substantial amount of production for amp draw. With a bubbler/reservoir maintaining levels would be solved and a simple flame arrestor would put at ease all fears of a spark causing catastrophic failure. I think that even though you did the work and in the end you get no better MPG or worse your still doing better off than before. Just due to the fact that your getting a cleaner burn of your fuel now should help lessen the amount of carbon buildup you get.
Fastdemise
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Beaverton, OR
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4157/DIY-open-source-Water-Fuel-Cell-Car-Kit
It seems to explain why you were getting that brown water. Worth a look
It seems to explain why you were getting that brown water. Worth a look
t_aldrich
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Woburn, MA
sounds like you need to replace your spark plug tubes. they dont cost much and are easy to install....it will keep the oil off your spark plugs anyways...
- Location
- MilkyWay Galaxy
Maybe you should try reading the whole thread, and the one it originated from in the OEM forum.
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=959203&highlight=hydrogen
Goodburbon i have not read the entire thread, apparently HHO is a hot topic but i did read some and from what i understood you where having some trouble measuring the mpgs accuratley, not sure if this is still a problem but if so this might help http://www.gassavergarageblog.com/2...in-your-vehicle-9-of-parts-and-an-old-laptop/ it will take a little effort and understanding but u sound capable.
thx for the all the work and posts its made us the better
thx for the all the work and posts its made us the better
Last edited:
goodburbon
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Westcliffe Colorado.
Update of sorts...
Driving highway miles between colorado and Louisiana last summer I kept complete mileage records. No hydrogen generator resulted in 32 mpg.
I've kept tabs since and suddenly have some very curious mileage numbers. I just started commuting 70 miles each way 2 weeks ago and the last 2 tanks have been 40mpg (11 gallons to 440 miles) and 41.4 mpg. This is right on the heels of a malfunctioning IAC that cured itself. A week and a half ago the car wouldn't idle when warm. This week it's not only doing fine but getting better mileage than it has ever gotten for me or the previous owner.
Same car, no maintenance performed...I mean I've added oil when it got low, and changed the computer when it went out last summer but otherwise NO maintenance in a year. I know, bad me, but it's a pita to change the oil in that thing ( low profile, snow on the ground etc.), and it burns enough that I have to add a quart every few weeks so the oil really doesn't look all that bad when you check it.
Driving highway miles between colorado and Louisiana last summer I kept complete mileage records. No hydrogen generator resulted in 32 mpg.
I've kept tabs since and suddenly have some very curious mileage numbers. I just started commuting 70 miles each way 2 weeks ago and the last 2 tanks have been 40mpg (11 gallons to 440 miles) and 41.4 mpg. This is right on the heels of a malfunctioning IAC that cured itself. A week and a half ago the car wouldn't idle when warm. This week it's not only doing fine but getting better mileage than it has ever gotten for me or the previous owner.
Same car, no maintenance performed...I mean I've added oil when it got low, and changed the computer when it went out last summer but otherwise NO maintenance in a year. I know, bad me, but it's a pita to change the oil in that thing ( low profile, snow on the ground etc.), and it burns enough that I have to add a quart every few weeks so the oil really doesn't look all that bad when you check it.
