Going on a diet

[Fullsizexj]

It was just a matter of what I wanted to use it for at the time and what I want to do now has changed, so stripping it down makes sense for the reasons I have

 

[Fullsizexj]

A little more progress, seat mounts Rad mount and Fuelcell mounts are in

 

[FarmerMatt]

I still can't help, but question the "B" pillar bracing. It would be hell for stout if you flopped it on the pass. side, but the upper pass "B" pillar corner looks to be laking. I'd like to see him do the exact same treatment in reverse. Upper pass. corner to drivers mid cross bar & lower pass corner to drivers mid bar. This would create an upper & a lower X in the "B" hoop that would be extremely strong & ad minimal weight. Not all triangles are equal in strength with a symetrical equal length legged triangle being the strongest.

I'm really interested in how he'll plumb the radiator. The lines of the buggy look killer Rich.

Matt

 

[Goatman]

Matt, for that corner to compress it has to move the A pillar, since there is a diagonal from that corner to the center of the A hoop, and it would have to break the weld on the diagonal that runs from the middle of the B hoop to the top. That diagonal is supporting both corners, either by compression strength on one corner or extension strength on the other corner......niether corner can move without something coming apart.

Granted, a weld can break or a bar can bend, but that corner still has considerable structural strength even though it doesn't have a diagonal going to it from the opposite B pillar. I agree that it would be stronger with it's own diagonal, but it should still be strong enough.

 

[Fullsizexj]

here is a rendering that Little Rich did of it with a skin on it and a body line but I am gonna do the body line different from what he suggested

 

[FarmerMatt]

Granted, a weld can break or a bar can bend, but that corner still has considerable structural strength even though it doesn't have a diagonal going to it from the opposite B pillar. I agree that it would be stronger with it's own diagonal, but it should still be strong enough.

I disagree. That diagnal in the roof would only help on a side impact not in a complete turtle manuver. The only structure that corner has in a turtle move is the bar from that corner to the rear.

 

[Fullsizexj]

for the Radiator, we are gonna run Hrew tube underneath to each end with regular flex hose for the connections on each end, this way I can get a hose anywhere if ever needed, some get that custom long hose and run it from end to end but try and find it in an emergency when you need it

 

[CanMan]

for the Radiator, we are gonna run Hrew tube underneath to each end with regular flex hose for the connections on each end, this way I can get a hose anywhere if ever needed, some get that custom long hose and run it from end to end but try and find it in an emergency when you need it

Going to run it under it, or through the inside? Adding header wrap to it, wouldn't be a bad idea, depending on where you place it. Just to keep hands off the hot tube.

 

[Fullsizexj]

underneath it betwwen the unibody frame rails

 

[Goatman]

I disagree. That diagnal in the roof would only help on a side impact not in a complete turtle manuver. The only structure that corner has in a turtle move is the bar from that corner to the rear.

If you look at that corner, and I assume here we're talking about the upper pass side corner of the B hoop, and follow the force lines to determine what else would have to move (or come apart) for that corner to move, it's considerable.

For example, for that corner to collapse inward at all, the upper B pillar cross bar will have to move sideways towards the drivers side. Assuming that the welds don't break on the upper B hoop diagonal, that upper B hoop bar can't move sideways since the drivers side corner is tied into the middle of the pass side B pillar, which is tied into the middle and the bottom of the drivers side B pillar. Additionally, for that B hoop upper cross bar to move sideways it also has to move the three roof diagonals, basically having to twist the couple of triangles formed by those three diagonals and the upper B hoop cross bar, and to twist that roof structure the A pillars would have to deform. Also, the two rearward down bars add some triangulation to the top of the B hoop making it even more difficult to move.

The only way I see that corner collapsing in is if the upper B hoop cross bar bent in the middle, but it still would have to move/bend the pass side rearward down bar and pull the middle of the upper A hoop rearward (which would be difficult because the middle of the upper A hoop is still tied to the two upper corners of the B hoop through the two roof diagonals, and the two upper corners of the B hoop are supported by the rearward down bars).

Basically, you'd have to hit it hard enough to bend the crap out of a bunch of tubes that are already tied into other tubes..........that would take a pretty hard hit, and I don't think we go fast enough.



Is that clear enough?

 

[FarmerMatt]

Is that clear enough?

Nope. There's simply to large an unsupported span across the top of the "B" pillar IMO. It wouldn't take much for the top of the "B" hoop to bend & as it does would pull the "B" pillar in towards the passenger. I guess we'll agree to disagree.
:twak:
:cheers:

Matt

 

[Goatman]

Nope. There's simply to large an unsupported span across the top of the "B" pillar IMO. It wouldn't take much for the top of the "B" hoop to bend & as it does would pull the "B" pillar in towards the passenger. I guess we'll agree to disagree.
:twak:
:cheers:

Matt

Well, let's see if we can get Rich to do a field test on it to see how it will actually hold up. Any decent size cliffs around there? :shocked:

:laugh: :laugh:

 

[Fullsizexj]

yeah but that are all mud, kinda defeats the purpose but I will see what I can find anyways

 

[FarmerMatt]

yeah but that are all mud, kinda defeats the purpose but I will see what I can find anyways

The only true way to test this would be a full on back flip. Goat & I will handle the betting...

 

[Lincoln]

Matt,

Trying to understand you a little because I'm slow to catch on. Are you thinking in a turtle the pass B will go down or inward? I can kind of see it crushing but I could see the A pillars going haywire before that happens.

???

 

[slowagon]

Awesome build! About how much tubing did you use in your cage. You've motivated me to start "dieting". Also could you show how the cage tied into the psuedo-frame. Thanks

 

[FarmerMatt]

Matt,

Trying to understand you a little

Many have tried, but none have succeeded...:conceited

My main concern is the passenger. I believe the cage is weak in the corner above the passengers head. Imagine if (IF) the "B" hoop bent down in that area, there is not enough bracing to keep the "B" pillar area from being pulled inward towards the passenger at the same time. By simply finishing the "X" into that corner you'd have it braced extremely well & it wouldn't add more than a couple pounds to the build. I feel it would make the difference of only having to fix a bent tube after a roll than having the entire passenger "B" pillar tweaked after a roll. Again this is my opinion I the rest of the rig is very well built IMO...

Honestly I doubt that we'll ever really know if it'll hold up because this thread & build will end up just like this one, that's it I'm going Rockwells :firedevil Always the bridesmaid & never the bride...:laugh3:

Matt

 

[Fullsizexj]

Don't worry Matt, this one will happen, the rockwell one was scrapped and parted out because it was gonna end up just way to big for what I want to do, I still have the chassis sitting out in the garage with the drivetrain minus the axles so it might go another direction someday but is not a priority at this time. The one I am doing now already runs so it was a quicker cheaper way to go and fits what I want to do is all.

 

[Lincoln]

Many have tried, but none have succeeded...:conceited

My main concern is the passenger. I believe the cage is weak in the corner above the passengers head. Imagine if (IF) the "B" hoop bent down in that area, there is not enough bracing to keep the "B" pillar area from being pulled inward towards the passenger at the same time. By simply finishing the "X" into that corner you'd have it braced extremely well & it wouldn't add more than a couple pounds to the build. I feel it would make the difference of only having to fix a bent tube after a roll than having the entire passenger "B" pillar tweaked after a roll. Again this is my opinion I the rest of the rig is very well built IMO...

Honestly I doubt that we'll ever really know if it'll hold up because this thread & build will end up just like this one, that's it I'm going Rockwells :firedevil Always the bridesmaid & never the bride...:laugh3:

Matt

I actually agree with all the points but I think the a-pillar will get trashed before the B and both would be a nasty hit. Also I bet Fullsize would scrap it long before it came close to a roll like that so fixing isn't an issue.

 

[Fullsizexj]

well it is really close to being done now, only thing left is a few of the skin tabs to go, was hoping to go paint all the tube today but UPS did not deliver the tabs yesterday due to the road being snowed in, so it will get all painted next weekend and then the final assembly and wiring and fuel lines and rad hoses hooked up and then I will bring it home to finish off a couple other little things, no new pics but I will try to get some this week