GM 5.3/4L60E/Klune/Stak 300

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

This installment will deal with the LS1 intake manifold. First, lets look at injectors. I would like to use the Truck injectors because I have them and they were designed to work with the computer/engine. Here's a pic of one:

Here it is (from the bottom) installed in the truck manifold.

Here's a pic showing the thick plastic intake manifold used with the truck intake set off to the side.

The truck intake ports for the injectors are basically a cylindrical hole.

The car LS1 intake ports for the injectors have a stepped portion near the bottom.

The truck injectors won't fit all the way down into the car LS1 injector port holes. However, the truck injectors have a small plastic cap type thing on their ends that can be removed as shown on a different web site. So, I pried off one of the caps and tried the injector in the LS1 intake. It fit well. Here's a pic showing this injector installed in the LS1 intake on the left and an unmodified truck injector sitting in the port on the right.

Here's the same thing as viewed from the bottom.

Here's the injector with the cap removed.

So, I removed all the caps and installed the injectors in the LS1 intake with the truck 0-rings and then slipped the fuel rails over the injectors and installed the crossover tube.

The crossover tube may still be too high, but I'll have to work on that later. Jeff

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

The fuel rails need to be bolted down to keep the injectors fully inserted into the ports in the intake manifold. However, the truck fuel rail mounting flanges sit quite a bit above the LS1 theaded bosses. They are not aligned from above either. I'll have to make some sort of plate with spacers to bolt the rails down.

I had read that I needed to use a LS1 style MAP sensor, but I removed the truck unit, ground one edge of plastic off and slipped it into the port in the back of the LS1 intake. I think it'll work just fine.

Jeff

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Now, for the oil pan, I wanted to find a Camaro pan, but instead I found a Cadillac CTS-V pan which is pretty similar to the truck pan but a little shallower. I'm not sure it's worth the $180 I had to pay, but I didn't find a Camaro pan for that price. I was hoping to get a flat bottom from the tranny pan past the oil pan.

Set side by side there is only about a 1.75" difference.

Here are a few comparison pics between the truck pan and the CTS-V pan.

After the install, it's not bad! Not as good as I was hoping, but not bad. The black marker line indicates a FLAT bottom from the tranny pan past the oil pan.

Jeff

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

After getting the Caddy oil pan on and setting the LS1 intake with fuel rails and throttle body in place, I set the engine down on blocks so that the bottom of the oil pan and tranny pan were just above the bottom of the frame rails. I then set the hood in place and checked it out. It fits!

Throttle body just clears. Fuel rail crossover hits just a bit as does the stock oil fill.

I think the block hugger headers will fit in here.

Exhaust might fit here.

Driveshaft and upper link might fit here.

Jeff

 

[Root Moose]

Awesome!

 

[TNT]

Awesome!

x 2

Keep up the great work and building outside the "box".

 

[Mr.OverKill]

i am humbled by your enginuity, i just stuck it in and made it work, you are figuring out all the stuff i said forget it about, when you get all the injection stuff figured out can you send me a list of all the part #'s and componants so i can upgrade mine to a more modern setup??????:wow:

 

[Root Moose]

Was thinking about your swap during my morning run.

Have you settled on which serpentine setup yet? It kinda got hazy back there a few posts.

Of the F-body or Y-body stuff is there a setup that is closer to drop in?

I REALLY like the idea of an iron block in a truck (LY5 with Active Displacement would rock!) but if one of the other aluminum block options are easier to sit in there that would simplify a lot of things. Could "upgrade" to an iron block at the next engine refresh - or whatever.

Or is it a wash since you have to mix-n-match a bunch of things anyway?

The truck stuff tends to be a lot cheaper but screaming deals on the car stuff do occur occasionally.

??

 

[Root Moose]

i am humbled by your enginuity, i just stuck it in and made it work, you are figuring out all the stuff i said forget it about, when you get all the injection stuff figured out can you send me a list of all the part #'s and componants so i can upgrade mine to a more modern setup??????:wow:

You are running a carb on your 'Cruiser engine?

There is an easy swap to TBI fuel injection. All the late 80s, early 90s car and truck small blocks used the TBI setup in the base models (IIRC). It looks like a carb and has a few wires to hook up after you site the CPU (PCM). It's the easiest of the EFI setups to get going. And it's cheap. I've seen prices range from $50 to $300 locally for the entire setup. It really is drop in. GM was still in the EFI denial stages back then and kludged this little system together as a quick fix. Don't take that the wrong way though, it is a pretty cool system for what it is.

Do some searching at http://www.thirdgen.org Some of the best info on TBI can be found there.

If you want multiport EFI on your first generation small block you'll need to go to GM TPI (will it clear the hood?) or go aftermarket and/or mix-n-match second generation stuff. The engine this thread is about is a Gen III engine so pretty much nothing applies (might as well be a Toyota or Ford engine compared to your Merc engine).

For the incremental difference and ease of install of TBI versus multiport (TPI) just do the TBI. It works fine and is light years better than what you are running now.

HTH

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Well, I ordered some fancy Speedwaymotors.com coated LS1 Block Hugger headers, but, they don't fit. I slipped one on, but had to push the engine a touch to the drivers side and it still wouldn't sit tight to the block. The rear most tube hits the frame.

I'm going to have to send them back. I am in the process of trying to pick up a set of early corvette ls1 exhaust manifolds. They are made of stamped steel and can be welded on if cutting and welding is required.

I hope this set will clear. Jeff

 

[Root Moose]

Those speedways look like they could be massaged a little if you wanted?

How much were they? If they were around $300 I'd send them back, order some uncoated ones and massage those a little (cut-n-splice a little bend). Would save a lot of time and be the right part...

But those Vette headers look good enough for a truck setup anyway.

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

I also purchased an LS2 water pump from Racepartsdirect.com as a crate engine takeoff for $99.95 plus shipping.

The bottom of the throttle body has a tube coming in on one side and out on the other side for what's referred to as a steam fitting. Part of this section hits the water pump before the intake manifold is all the way down. I will probably grind some of the throttle body casting down to try to clear as others have done. The one tube fitting points into a portion of the water pump though. I'll probably try to bend it up a little to clear. As for general information about the steam fittings, I guess the LS engines have these holes in the top of the engine in which steam from the coolant will collect. They made these steam fittings with crossover tubes to vent the steam back to the radiator. The path back to the radiator is through the throttle body to help heat the throttle body I believe. There are two steam holes in the front and two in the back of the engine. The '03 5.3 I have has the back two holes plugged from the factory. The front two have a line connecting them and then a nipple pointing up to a hose that feeds throug the throttle body to the fitting on the radiator. I've read that one can plug all the steam holes, that one can skip going through the throttle body, that one can route the host to a fitting drilled and tapped into the water pump and that one can route the hose to a nipple installed in the upper radiator hose. I'm not real sure what direction I will take, but these are thing's that I've read about the steam fittings.

Here's another wider shot of the front of the motor with the LS2 water pump in place.

Here's a side shot. Keep in mind that the balancer is NOT fully on the crankshaft yet.

Now, for front accessories, I am going to run an LS2 layout because it mounts the belt closest to the block of all the other setups. I'm doing this for front clearance. Of the LS2 factory layouts, there are two. I cross checked some part numbers and verified that the tensioner and idler pulley are the same between the two, so the offset from the block should be the same also. Here is the Corvette C6:

Here is the Cadillac CTS-V:

I like the Corvette routing since it keeps the alternator up high out of mud and debris, puts the power steering pump a little lower so I can have an easier time running a custom remote reservoir to it with gravity feed, and opens up more room for the upper suspension link etc. Here is a pic of the main bracket for the C6 LS2 alternator.

Looking at the Corvette layout, I held a power steering pump pulley in the approximate position and think I may still have clearance issues with the proposed steering box location. I ended up sliding the box a bit forward and might be able to fit the pulley just behind the main vertical portion of the box. Since the radiator is a bit narrower than the frame rails, it will still clear the power steering gear in this position.

Keeping an eye on the C6 LS2 layout pic I held the alternator in the approx. position.

From above:

I guess the only way to see for sure if this will work is to order some parts and try it. I would like to get the exhaust manifolds worked out first, then see if I can get the C6 bracket etc. to work. Jeff

 

[Sponge Bob]

Was the speedway headers in the way of the motor mounts? I could not tell from the pic.

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Was the speedway headers in the way of the motor mounts? I could not tell from the pic.

Was the speedway headers in the way of the motor mounts? I could not tell from the pic.

Yes, I would say they were in the way of the mounts. However, one can work around them as shown in post 28 of this thread (page 2). Those pics are of the same speedwaymotors.com block hugger headers with tubular mounts crafted to fit. Speedway motors suggets one run an adapter plate (http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/5070,122_LS1-Motor-Mount-Adaptors.html) that mounts an old style 3 bolt small block engine mount off center of the LS1 mounts. Just for curiosity sake, the LS1 Corvette mounts only grab three of the LS1 motors bolt holes and place their mount aligned on the front two bolt holes.

Notice how close the factory mount is to the factory exhaust and A/C in this pic!

I wonder if I’ll be able to remount my Sanden in this region and fit a motor mount? Who knows? I’ll have to get a set of the exhaust manifolds first and then see. BTW, here are a few more pics of the one speedway motors header loosely installed on my engine:

Jeff

 

[Sponge Bob]

thanks for the pics they will not work with our advance adapter motor mounts we used on the TJ as the motor mounts come straight out from the motor

 

[Sponge Bob]

looking at the corvette exhaust we could cut off the lower flange and point it forward to clear the upper link and slave cyl of the TJ

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

I'm thinking I'll be cutting the drivers side manifold apart where the downpipe exits, swiveling that to point forward and then routing that around the front of the oil pan to join the unmodified passengers side manifold. I could possibly run two passenger side manifolds, but then I would probably have to buy TWO sets of manifolds. BTW, there are other companies that make block hugger headers that are offset from the motor mount. I believe the Advance Adapters units do that as well as a few others. I tried the speedway units since others have said they liked them and they were pretty cheap at $275 coated or $170 uncoated. Here is a pic of some Hooker block huggers:

That pic is from this thread: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=679537

Here's a pic of the Sanderson LS1 block huggers:

Jeff

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

I got a $45 set of early Vette manifolds Friday, promptly tried them on the engine and determined that although they are close, they won't fit in stock form.

They both hit the frame below where the tubes come together because they don't hug the block enough. I decided to simply cut a line along the inside of the manifold, bend it together and re weld. However, when I began cutting, I found out the manifolds have an inner and outer. I'm not sure why nor if I have to keep the inner portion. It would be a LOT easier to toss the inner portion that I ended up completely removing and just adjusting the outer portion and welding it all back up. Can you guys think of any reason the inner portion that I removed needs to be on there?

Jeff

 

[Root Moose]

That explains the weird shape of the runners at the collector I guess.

My suspicion is that it is a way to have a tight, conforming heat shield on the manifold.

Are both layers "air tight" or are they just pressed steel that is crimped?

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

The outer layer is air tight, but the inner is not. As you can see at the point where the inner and outer meet the inner has a couple deep notches in it. There are some gaps between the inner and outer just inside the individual ports as well but I thought they were simply ports for the AIR injection setup (which my engine doesn't use). They might actually allow the passage of gases into the outer shield area as well. Jeff