GM 5.3/4L60E/Klune/Stak 300

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

You've got to remember that the TJ's axle placement is WAY different than in an XJ. Their axles are located much further forward as compared to the engine stock. I marked the coil centerline and then marked a spot 4" forward then ran a plumb line down to the axle and moved it's centerline forward more yet, so I've already taken into consideration how the stock XJ coil sits in front of the axle 1.5" or so for a total movement of my axle to something like 6" forward from stock! Jeff

 

[Mr.OverKill]

You've got to remember that the TJ's axle placement is WAY different than in an XJ. Their axles are located much further forward as compared to the engine stock. I marked the coil centerline and then marked a spot 4" forward then ran a plumb line down to the axle and moved it's centerline forward more yet, so I've already taken into consideration how the stock XJ coil sits in front of the axle 1.5" or so for a total movement of my axle to something like 6" forward from stock! Jeff

to avoid the coil issue, why not run air shox???

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

I've already picked up a set of race runner 14" coilover shocks for the front of this pile. I was just discussing how much the axle has been moved forward compared to stock. BTW, I was shooting for a 107 wheel base, but by pushing the front axle forward like this I'm sure it's going to end up longer. Jeff

 

[FarmerMatt]

I've already picked up a set of race runner 14" coilover shocks for the front of this pile. I was just discussing how much the axle has been moved forward compared to stock. BTW, I was shooting for a 107 wheel base, but by pushing the front axle forward like this I'm sure it's going to end up longer. Jeff

I'm @ 108.5". :eeks1::eeks1:

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

I spent all weekend trying different things and mostly just staring and googling different ideas. Anybody have any information on swapping the king pin steering knuckles side for side? I was thinking of putting the stock steering arm pointing back on the passengers side so I could mount an assist ram to it similar to what Goatman has done. I would then run steering similar to what he is using. One drag link from a pitman arm to the top of the inner hole on the ballistic arms and then a tie rod from the bottom of the drivers side arm to a tab welded to the drag link over by the passengers side knuckle. I think I could run that and have it clear everything at full stuff...barely. As for the ram, I would rather it work on a side to side tie rod so it is pushing one side and pulling the other but I don't know if I can make that work with the steering links setup like Goatmans. I really didn't want a ram pushing on the back of a double ended high steer arm and trying to pivot it on the studs in the top of the knuckle as I think that is just asking for breakeage plus I already have a single ended arm. So, I thought if the ram were pushing/pulling directly on the stock steering arm portion of the knuckle, that might better withstand the force. The only issue I see is that I would have to run the brakes on the front portion of the rotor, but is that a problem? Anybody else familiar with swapping the knuckles side for side? Also, I think I'll have to use a flat pitman arm and found out that an Astro van has just the ticket, so I'm shopping for one of them now.

Just for your information, here is some data I took. I mocked up a straight tie rod from high steer arm to high steer arm and then measured side to side movement of the steering holes letting the knuckles swing from steering stop to steering stop. I got 7" for the inner hole and 9" for the outer hole in the Ballistic Fab arms. I then measured the throw of the WJ pitman arm from lock to lock on the WJ steering box and got 7.75" with the WJ arm being 6 1/8" center to center. A Waggy pitman arm produced 8.5" of throw with it being 6.75" center to center. The Ballistic arms measure out to 6 5/16" for the inner hole and 8.5" for the outer hole from the king pin center. You can see that the Waggy arm will not produce enough throw to operate the high steer arm from stop to stop when in the outer hole! Jeff

 

[whitneyj]

I had thought about doing something similar, just without the high steer arms. After a little research I found a thread from 2006 that talked about how you lose your Ackerman angle, or it goes out of what's acceptable and greatly increases your turning radius. I'll try and find it and see how that applies to your situation.

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Ackerman would not be affected because the high steer arms have the tie rod holes parallel to the wheel. When installed on steering knuckles pointing forward or rearward they end up in the exact same spot. Now that's not to say their Ackerman angle is right. It would be better if the tie rod holes were outside the parallel line so that a line run through the king pin center line would intersect the center of the rear axle, but clearance for front tires with the high steer arms is more important. Jeff

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Here's a shot of the knuckles sitting on there backwards. Jeff

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Back to the serpentine system with the York compressor and truck alternator to Vette bracket adapter I finally have a belt that fits. After four tries I got a belt that puts the tensioner indicator between the min and max marks! It's 109 3/8" long and was Carquest part number K061098.

I also picked up a 2wd Chevy Astro Van pitman arm. It is 5 7/8" between centers, uses a small tie rod end taper and gives 7.5" of throw on the WJ box which should be enough to throw the steering knuckles lock to lock 7" using the inner holes on the Ballistic Fab arms.

From the top, the Astro Van arm, a WJ arm and a Waggy arm.

The indexing on the Astro arm looks like it will work with the WJ box as well as it does point back in the middle of the travel. I guess I'll have to see how the steering wheel aligns with the centered position of the pitman arm though. Tentative indications are that a small diameter drag link will be able to pass from the bottom of the flat Astro arm to the top of the passengers side Ballistic fab arm and just clear the front corner of the oil pan at full stuff (8" between the top of the axle and the bottom of the frame.) It'll also clear the top of the diff. I won't know for sure though till I get everything built! The drivers side arm would then be actuated by a tie rod coming from the bottom of the ballistic fab arm to the under side of the drag link over by the passengers side end get connected via a heim joint and two tabs welded to the drag link. Jeff

 

[JeepFreak21]

...Tentative indications are that a small diameter drag link...
Jeff

What did you have in mind for material?
Billy

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

What did you have in mind for material?
Billy

No idea. I'll get some pictures of something mocked up this weekend maybe. Jeff

 

[Begster]

Nice build.

Whats the point for the knuckles sitting on there backwards? I missed it if you said it already.

 

[JeepFreak21]

Nice build.

Whats the point for the knuckles sitting on there backwards? I missed it if you said it already.

Tie rod clearance from a bunch of stuff
Billy

 

[Mr.OverKill]

Nice build.

Whats the point for the knuckles sitting on there backwards? I missed it if you said it already.

knuckle ( passenger side only ) is on backwards to provide a safe place to attach the hydro assist to

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

No progress to speak of, but I did finish off the York bracket and threw some paint on it. I also emptied my slush fund and got a tiny little pittance of tubing. This is $773 in tubing!

Five 24' sticks of 1.5x.188 - exterior?
One 24' stick of 1.5x.120 - interior?
8' of 2"x.25" - lower front control arms
12' of 1.75"x.120 - upper control arms

All DOM and I'll most certainly need more, but this is all I had the cash for right now. Jeff

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

I mocked up the following steering setup that seems to clear everything at full stuff. First, I notched the bottom of the passengers side frame to match the notch I did in the drivers side to give a little clearance for the drag link. I put an Astro van flat pitman arm on the WJ box then ran a straight drag link from the bottom of that to the top of the passengers side high steer arm inner hole. I also moved the axle forward a touch more. This just cleared the front edge of the oil pan and was able to swing the steering knuckle fully. I then installed a straight tie rod from the bottom of the drivers side high steer arm to the under side of the drag link over by the passengers side knuckle and swung the pitman arm full left and right. The drivers knuckle also swung through its full range and the two links did not collide or hit anything. The trick is going to be making it work with proper tie rod ends as clearance is very tight. I also would like to see what this setup looks like at ride height and fully drooped. As for a track bar, there is just enough room to sneak a straight one over the top of the pumpkin if care is taken to where to mount the ends.

Full right turn

Full left turn

Drag link only

Jeff

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

I got a little work done on the tranny crossmember. I built a sunken tray that mounts the two rubber bushings.

Jeff

 

[Root Moose]

Is it just an optical thing or is the steering box swinging farther to the passenger side than the driver side?

 

[Sponge Bob]

Ok, you are looking at full stuff with both sides equal. What about with the axle articulated. I think you may have hitting if the pass side is stuffed only because of the width of the frame. It could be tuned with bump stops.

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Is it just an optical thing or is the steering box swinging farther to the passenger side than the driver side?

The pitman arm fits on in ONE spot. I swung it left and right and marked the ends of travel then swung it half way and marked that as center and set the drag link to make the steering knuckles centered at that spot as well. So, when the pitman arm is centered in its range it does NOT point straight back. It points a bit towards the center of the vehicle. If I file out the indexing splines I could move it one spline and perhaps get it to point straight back in the middle of it's travel, but maybe that's not really needed either? Jeff