- Location
- Antioch, CA
If you are worried about resale value of your rig or the parts you install on it you are a fool.
Buy what makes sense to you. Unless you are a woman bigger isn't always automatically better.
Dana 44 front upgrade info
- Thread starter RyanColton
- Start date
If you are worried about resale value of your rig or the parts you install on it you are a fool.
Buy what makes sense to you. Unless you are a woman bigger isn't always automatically better.
JeepZiggy91
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- bullhead city
To the op, good job on starting another debate on this. They are always fun to watch. But I have a hp44 i may possibly part with. I have a rear 44 to match too. Id like to get rid or both axles and rims together, but I would seperate. Pm me if you want more info.
- Location
- Henderson, NV
haha told you Ryan!!!
throw your WJ upgrade on there with some gussets and a truss, maybe do a super 30 kit. If you've been rollin around on a 30 with 35s for the last year with no issues, i doubt the work is worth it to build a 44 or a 60.
throw your WJ upgrade on there with some gussets and a truss, maybe do a super 30 kit. If you've been rollin around on a 30 with 35s for the last year with no issues, i doubt the work is worth it to build a 44 or a 60.
foxwar71
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Foxboro, MA
My $200 HP60 can beat up your 30/44 :moon:
Some people, like myself, going from a 30 to a built 60 is the best way to go. I beat the jeep hard and I like no having to worry about it.
Some people, like myself, going from a 30 to a built 60 is the best way to go. I beat the jeep hard and I like no having to worry about it.
- Location
- Patterson, Ca
Not worried about resale value, but when you decide to run bigger tires, tougher trails, etc and you realize the $3k built 30 still isn't holding up, you'll be out that $ and then some when you build the axle to suit your needs. Convince as many people as you can that a super awesome 30 is all they'll ever need, but I'm not buying it. The 30 can be built to hold up to most wheeling on 35's and if 35" is as big as you'll ever go and you stay off the skinny pedal you'll mostly be ok. Plan to maybe go bigger, like to push the limits on bonus lines using lots of go pedal? I wish I hadn't wasted the $ on the 30, and then the 44. With what I put into those to axles would have built one hell of a 60, 609 or 1460
MoparManiac
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Amherst, NH
I have no issues with the money I spent on D30s and D44s.
I consider it a valuable learning experience and I enjoyed learning to drive on smaller tires and pushing the rig harder and harder.
I consider it a valuable learning experience and I enjoyed learning to drive on smaller tires and pushing the rig harder and harder.
- Location
- Hammertown, USA
Freaking hilarious!
To the OP:
[FACT]
As has been stated, Mr. N's D44 page is extremely helpful. However, one point I will make: if you are going for 5 on 5.5, using the GM knuckles and small spindle, and you find a pair of cheap GM flat-top knuckles don't be afraid to pick them up. The caliper bracket can easily be re-drilled to make them fit just fine. I got a miss-matched set and redrilled one of my brackets and I can't even tell.
I have a Waggy D44 with GM flat-top knuckles, OTT steering, ARB and a TNT truss rolling on 37" MTRs.
[/FACT]
[OPINION]
It's been great. I'm a Utah guy as well and since we don't have to throttle up muddy hills (while bouncing off the rev-limiter) they last well enough. I did lose a U-Joint once on Double Whammy in Moab. Then again it was Double Whammy - the obstacle with a shrine of broken parts, many of which are u-joints - and I was beating it like a red-headed step child riding a rented mule (which was stolen...) lasted for the first 10 minutes before she went - and that's with stock shafts.
If I ever really think I need more strength I'll just go with RCVs and be done for ever. At that point it will be the same cost as a D60 but half the weight.[/OPINION]
FWIW, to polish a D30 and get almost the same strength as a D44 with 1/2" tubes, you would need to do the WJ knuckles upgrade for the brakes, the lockout hub upgrade, chromo shafts, truss, C gussets and some sort of stout diff cover in an attempt to limit deflection. I built my 44 for about $1,600, a comparable 30 would be about $3,000 (and still would still have inferior ring & pinion and brakes - albeit slightly) - facts mixed with opinions.
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- Location
- Lakeside, CA
Ding ding ding, we have a winner... It's a flipping Cherokee, not a buggy. Very few and far between are on bigger than 35" tires. Most are 33 or 35, for that, a D30 with alloy shafts and a truss, full case locker, done. The Artec truss is a nice piece. If you don't have the $$$ for the shafts/fullcase, throw a lock right or lokka in it and put full circle clips on the u-joints. The truss will limit housing flex, which is what kills the ring gears in these things on 35's and smaller. Wheel sanely and you will not have issues.
- Location
- San Diego
these days it is very easy to put better brakes on a 30 than what a 44 came with.
XJLI
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Long Island, NY
1999 dual piston calipers > 1978 dual piston calipers. another thought (that could very well be nonsense) is that how much longer will parts for these axles be readily available? the newest stuff going on the recommended 44s is 30 years old.
- Location
- Patterson, Ca
The newest stuff? Brand new parts are available in every auto parts store in the world. The 99 dual piston calipers off a wj are still weaker than the thunderbird calipers bolted to a 44(again size matters) and that wj swap will run about $600-800 if you buy all new parts and tbird loaded calipers are $30-50 and 2014 not 1978.
- Location
- Hammertown, USA
And yet the actual experts in brake upgrades consistently use WJ and Dodge 1500 stuff, and leave the Thunderbird calipers in the trash..
- Location
- Patterson, Ca
It's hard to sell $30 calipers as $600-2000 brake upgrade kits. Having driven an xj with wj brakes and one with an hp44 with tbird calipers it is my experience that the tbird calipers clamp harder. I'm not racing, brake fade from a huge single piston vs 2 much smaller pistons might be an issue if I were? Build what works for you, but don't be afraid of going to a bigger axle. I like the stability that comes with the added width and the piece of mind that comes with the additional strength.
yossarian19
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Grass Valley, CA
Every time this debate comes around I chime in with the same comment, so here it is:
30s, 44s and 60s all have their place. Depending how built "built" is, you can spend a crap-ton of money on a 30 or not that much on a 44. Start out with what you want from your jeep in terms of tire size, type of wheeling etc and ask yourself "Am I full of it? Am I really stopping at 3x's?" before you pull your wallet out.
And I've got to believe that if Detroit didn't think there were meaningful improvements to be had with modern style junk, we'd all still be driving cars with Tbird / GM Metric style brakes. But that's just me.
30s, 44s and 60s all have their place. Depending how built "built" is, you can spend a crap-ton of money on a 30 or not that much on a 44. Start out with what you want from your jeep in terms of tire size, type of wheeling etc and ask yourself "Am I full of it? Am I really stopping at 3x's?" before you pull your wallet out.
And I've got to believe that if Detroit didn't think there were meaningful improvements to be had with modern style junk, we'd all still be driving cars with Tbird / GM Metric style brakes. But that's just me.
- Location
- Antioch, CA
Too bad the good insight and information in this thread has been overshadowed by bad advice and assumptions as what is best for every situation.
The reality is that the advice of "don't waste your money building a D30 or a D44" is ridiculous. There is a natural progression to all things Jeep. You don't tell a novice off roader to skip the 3" lift and 31's because it is more cost effective to jump up to 35's and a 6+ in lift. This sets the guy up for failure by starting off with too much rig that will get him, his passengers, and those around him in trouble. What the guy really needs is seat time and to be able to push the limits of himself and ultimately his rig in stages. Once those limits are reached then there a decision to make as to what the next step should be.
The idea of putting 1 ton axles in a full body rig and expecting to get the most out of those axles is wishful thinking at best. The limitations of the body on our XJs requires complicated mods to the body and suspension and steering to run the 37+ tires needed to regain the ground clearance lost by running the bigger axles. What about the weight of these bigger axles and tires. How is that going to effect the on road driveability? The 4.0 isn't as powerful as some think. Pretty soon you lose everything that makes the XJ great to begin with.
So decide what you want to do and do it. Just don't buy into the idea that building a smaller axle is a waste of money. Everything you do to your rig is a waste of money when looking at resale, so don't look at it that way. Some people are better off jumping up to a big axle, others are better off making their D30 stronger. Don't allow other people to make that decision for you. There are plenty of hidden costs along the way with axles and Jeeps. Putting anything other than a stock XJ axle in your XJ needs to be done with an open wallet and a high tolerance for the problems that will arise along the way.
The reality is that the advice of "don't waste your money building a D30 or a D44" is ridiculous. There is a natural progression to all things Jeep. You don't tell a novice off roader to skip the 3" lift and 31's because it is more cost effective to jump up to 35's and a 6+ in lift. This sets the guy up for failure by starting off with too much rig that will get him, his passengers, and those around him in trouble. What the guy really needs is seat time and to be able to push the limits of himself and ultimately his rig in stages. Once those limits are reached then there a decision to make as to what the next step should be.
The idea of putting 1 ton axles in a full body rig and expecting to get the most out of those axles is wishful thinking at best. The limitations of the body on our XJs requires complicated mods to the body and suspension and steering to run the 37+ tires needed to regain the ground clearance lost by running the bigger axles. What about the weight of these bigger axles and tires. How is that going to effect the on road driveability? The 4.0 isn't as powerful as some think. Pretty soon you lose everything that makes the XJ great to begin with.
So decide what you want to do and do it. Just don't buy into the idea that building a smaller axle is a waste of money. Everything you do to your rig is a waste of money when looking at resale, so don't look at it that way. Some people are better off jumping up to a big axle, others are better off making their D30 stronger. Don't allow other people to make that decision for you. There are plenty of hidden costs along the way with axles and Jeeps. Putting anything other than a stock XJ axle in your XJ needs to be done with an open wallet and a high tolerance for the problems that will arise along the way.
- Location
- Dublin California
very well put Bryan!!!
XJLI
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Long Island, NY
blondejoncherokee
NAXJA Member
- Location
- sacramento
If it helps the cause for the 44 swap, I ran a WJ swap on my 30, did all the work, bought all new parts expect for the knuckles, and spent around 950$.
Then 6 months later after the final R&P grenaded I swapped T bird calipers into my hp44 that I was building for 20$ each caliper and 90$ for custom brake lines. I don't think i had to grind the T bird calipers to clear 15s(maybe I did), only the nubs for the hard lines from the t bird to clear SS lines. ,I had to grind the WJ calipers to clear 15" steelies. I personally prefer the 130$ T bird upgrade to a 44 compared to the 950$ WJ. Ive done both and it seems to stop great with both. I know the WJ can probably be done a little cheaper than 950 as I paid 200$ shipped on pirate for the knuckles and caliper cores and steering that I didn’t use.
Thing stops 36s on dime. I had some dude cut me off going to work once and slam his brakes for some reason (I used to DD it) and it stopped instantly. No complaints here.
This is the “road map” for many XJ guys :
Learn the limits of the 30 . build it up for 35s spend the money, its like paying tuition to the XJ world of wheeling . run it until you break at least 2 or3 R&Ps.(this might take one season, this might take 8 years) kick your self in the nuts , then build 44. Run it until you break a few R&P. might be one season, might be another 8 years. Kick yourself in the nuts, then build a 60 and once you start breaking R&P on that just give up and start backpacking. I don't think people really ever get to the last 2 phases of breaking a ton of 60 gears then backpacking though.
Since you already asked for a 44, and you are way past a 3” lift on 31s beginner phase, it seems like at the very least its worth considering running the numbers for a 44 and a 60 ( and a crazy built 30 too ) in an excel sheet to see where the cost differences are and understand the strength differences. Keep in mind many guys get stuck going coilovers with a 60, but some guys do also run coils on a 60 so its not impossible . You are not everyone, you don’t sound like a novice , you asked about a 44, so it may or may not be worth your while to even bother running the numbers for a 60.
I know guys personally that regret building a 44 myself included, we are just trying to possibly save you money if you end up building a 60 one year after your 44 (after dumping a ton of money into a 30) . A lot of guys beat on HP44s for a very long time. I am praying mine lasts at least 2-3 more years. I also wheel like a idiot and even though ive been wheeling scouts, XJs, and CJ5s for over 13 years I still have no clue what I am doing . It will never end.
Regardless, if you go 44, its generally understood to shoot for the HP over the LP . I think most will at least agree on that.
Then 6 months later after the final R&P grenaded I swapped T bird calipers into my hp44 that I was building for 20$ each caliper and 90$ for custom brake lines. I don't think i had to grind the T bird calipers to clear 15s(maybe I did), only the nubs for the hard lines from the t bird to clear SS lines. ,I had to grind the WJ calipers to clear 15" steelies. I personally prefer the 130$ T bird upgrade to a 44 compared to the 950$ WJ. Ive done both and it seems to stop great with both. I know the WJ can probably be done a little cheaper than 950 as I paid 200$ shipped on pirate for the knuckles and caliper cores and steering that I didn’t use.
Thing stops 36s on dime. I had some dude cut me off going to work once and slam his brakes for some reason (I used to DD it) and it stopped instantly. No complaints here.
This is the “road map” for many XJ guys :
Learn the limits of the 30 . build it up for 35s spend the money, its like paying tuition to the XJ world of wheeling . run it until you break at least 2 or3 R&Ps.(this might take one season, this might take 8 years) kick your self in the nuts , then build 44. Run it until you break a few R&P. might be one season, might be another 8 years. Kick yourself in the nuts, then build a 60 and once you start breaking R&P on that just give up and start backpacking. I don't think people really ever get to the last 2 phases of breaking a ton of 60 gears then backpacking though.
Since you already asked for a 44, and you are way past a 3” lift on 31s beginner phase, it seems like at the very least its worth considering running the numbers for a 44 and a 60 ( and a crazy built 30 too ) in an excel sheet to see where the cost differences are and understand the strength differences. Keep in mind many guys get stuck going coilovers with a 60, but some guys do also run coils on a 60 so its not impossible . You are not everyone, you don’t sound like a novice , you asked about a 44, so it may or may not be worth your while to even bother running the numbers for a 60.
I know guys personally that regret building a 44 myself included, we are just trying to possibly save you money if you end up building a 60 one year after your 44 (after dumping a ton of money into a 30) . A lot of guys beat on HP44s for a very long time. I am praying mine lasts at least 2-3 more years. I also wheel like a idiot and even though ive been wheeling scouts, XJs, and CJ5s for over 13 years I still have no clue what I am doing . It will never end.
Regardless, if you go 44, its generally understood to shoot for the HP over the LP . I think most will at least agree on that.
Personally I see my jeep stopped. I have hit the stage of being done building stuff. I may do an 8.8 down the road, it's tempting and not to expensive. I personally regret doing my rear locker an not just staying welded. My front is built I guess you could say it has a Detroit and chromo shafts with 4.56 it will last me forever and a day. I won't build a new rear axle till I blow this one so I guess that makes it even simpler doesn't it. I am also still on short arms and don't wanna go bigger than 35s max. So I guess I am ok.
