CSF 3 Row Radiator the best way to go?

[Ben824]

Ok so here is my review of the 2 row Champion all aluminum radiator. This review should be helpful to those that have been on the fence between the CSF 3 row and the Champion 2 or 3 row units or the AE 3 row unit as I am replacing a CSF 3 row unit with a Champion 2 row. If you are new to wrenching on your Jeep and absolutely terrified of the thought of modification over straight bolt in then go with the CSF unit as it is 100% bolt in and you should get atleast 4-5 years out of the radiator (I got 7 out of mine). The Champion 2 row dropped in place just fine and I had to do the MINOR transmission line modifications that others had to do but as long as you have a few hose clamps, about 7 inches of fuel hose, a dremel, and a hammer (mini sledge in my case), then you will be able to tackle this just fine. This is an easy install as long as you are prepared.

Now I want to start by saying the CSF was a good unit for the years that I had it it kept the temperatures down for a long time but it still went bad and sooner that I wanted for the over $200 that I spent on it years ago. The CSF unit, compared to stock, is an upgrade in that it is all metal and has 3 rows. But it is still pressed together and made of a metal that will corrode and fail. It also has a plastic drain plug on the side.

The Champion is a fully welded all aluminum unit with a metal drain plug that I had shipped to my door for $174 total! I feel confident in saying that I don't expect to replace this thing ever or atleast far past 7 years.

Here is the CSF unit that I removed compared to the Champion unit.

Here are the reasons I had to replace the CSF unit.
This is where is began to leak from. Notice the plastic drain plug.

Paint chipping off didn't look too good either.

Now here are some size comparisons. This is where is gets interesting.

This is the CSF 3 row unit core thickness.

This is the Champion 2 row unit core thickness.

The Cores of both units are virtually the exact same thickness. So the surface area of the rows are the same despite the champion being 2 rows and the CSF being 3 rows. The CSF really cannot cool any better since it does not spread the fluid out over a wider area to get more cooling than the Champion 2 row does.

So lets recap real quick The Champion 2 row offers the same surface area for cooling as the CSF, costs less than the CSF, is made from higher quality aluminum, and is made to a higher quality standard being fully welded. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Ok so here is some info on what I did during my install. This is NOT a step by step install, simply just a review of notable things to point out that anyone will run into during the install of a Champion 2 row radiator.

Here are some of the upper radiator support isolators that will need to be transferred to the Champion radiator.

These are the support brackets for the A/C condenser. I didn't take pics of both since you can get the idea from the one and you can see the other side in the pictures above.

The Champion radiator already has tabs welded to it to support the A/C condenser but I figured I would transfer the original brackets over if I could just to have extra support. The holes in the brackets did not match up with any of the hole on the Champion radiator so I ditched them since I did not need them anymore anyways.

I knew I would need to modify the transmission lines slightly in order to get this to work so here is what I did to the factory quick connect elbow for the lower supply line.
I cut the elbow where it would normally connect to the radiator. The tools of choice for this task was a dremel and a pair of vice grip pliers to hold the elbow.

 

[Ben824]

Review continued...

Here is how I cut the upper transmission return line. Same tools used here as before with the lower line. I cut the line below the elbow so I would have a straight line go into the hose.

Here is how I attached the factory quick connect for the lower line to the lower elbow that came with the Champion radiator.

This is how I attached the upper line to the upper elbow that came with the new radiator.

Finally the end product with the radiator dropped in and all the lines attached and tightened up!

There is also some slight massaging I had to do to the inner fender because the lower elbow and inner fender made contact to the point that the radiator couldn't drop in with the elbow attached. I took my mini sledge hammer and began hitting the small corner that was causing the trouble. This corner just barely made contact with the elbow so it only had to move a little amount. I made about 3 tries at trying to hit it and test fitting before I was happy and this was the end result. It touches still but it fits!

This is what I looked like right before I finished hooking up all the lines and hoses, filled the radiator with a 50/50 coolant and water mix, and I turned the engine on to check for leaks.

All in all the radiator went in smoothly and took about 2 hours to do. Would have taken me less time if I didn't keep stopping to take pictures. I drove it around town in the 84 degree south georgia humid weather and at stop lights it never crept over 210 and driving around the needle was just under the 210 mark which made me very happy! I think for the money the Champion 2 row is a much better buy than the CSF if the installer is not afraid of the very very very minor modifications needed to drop this thing in. The Champion 3 row or AE 3 row would be far superior to the CSF and be an even greater upgrade over the Champion 2 row since the cores on both those units have a larger surface area to cool the fluid passing through them.

This was my first review so be nice but I hope I did a good enough job and got my point across well while still providing plenty of good information. Please feel free to ask any questions that you may have I would be more than happy to answer them to the best of my ability.

All photos were taken with an iPhone 4.

-Ben

 

[xj9140]

Wow that's impressive. Where can I find a three row?

So I just got mine. I saw the box and was ready for some disappointment. I had to tap two tabs back in place and had to wack the cap to get it to come off(dunno why it says 11 or 1.1 on the cap when it's supposed to be a 16#er(looks like a pos anyhow):

I got my Champion 2 row in today! I will be installing it tomorrow in my free time. Hope this won't be too much trouble!

The first one looks of higher capacity. I'm trying to find the bigger one online. I guess everybody is out of stock.

 

[dieselenthusiast]

Nice Job Ben824! The pics were extremely helpful!

 

[Ronbo]

That assembly work(welding) doesn't look very good. Any thoughts on that?

 

[gradon]

Yeah it looks like a rushed welding job. I'll see if it holds coolant under pressure. Mine is 2.5" wide, so definitely has more capacity than the champion. Look up american eagle ae-1193, instead of the champion. They are made at the same factory, but they didn't want to confuse people by having two champion 2-rows, thus the name difference.

 

[Ben824]

That assembly work(welding) doesn't look very good. Any thoughts on that?

My Champion 2 row is made by the same people as the American Eagle 3 row and the AE 3 row is a rebadged Champion 3 row. The welds look a little sloppy but they hold just fine. You gotta really think about it you are getting a fully welded all aluminum radiator for less than $200 shipped to your door. In the past fully aluminum radiators have normally cost $400-$500. I can deal with a little sloppy weld work as long as it holds fine if that means I get a fully aluminum radiator for less than $200. Also you can't hardly see the radiator once it is installed since so much covers the thing up.

 

[fasteddieyj]

Installed my AE radiator today and all went about as expected. Had to notch the inner fender and upper radiator support as well as modify the tranny cooler lines. I also had to notch out the brackets that locate the bottom of the a/c condenser a bit. Was a super easy fix with a Dremel. The only thing I'm a little worried about is how much closer the fan is now, but it should be ok.
The only other issue I had was that I wasn't 100% sure which way the petcock needed to be. I was about 99% but I've never owned a fancy radiator with a metal one before.

 

[gradon]

Brother's welder is down so mine won't get installed for a while.

 

[fasteddieyj]

So I did find one other issue. My upper radiator hose now rubs up against my battery. It's an Optima that was originally in my buddies TJ, so if I had one speced for the XJ it probably wouldn't be an issue. With the old radiator it was pretty close but not touching. Will probably just relocate the battery to behind the driver seat to solve the problem.

 

[bigalpha]

all aluminum, which conducts heat much better than copper or brass.

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect.

 

[cal]

copper > aluminium > brass


I spent about three hours reading up on this a few months ago. The article that I found on it was very well written and had a lot of science behind it, but I didn't bookmark it and can't find it now.

I had to tread through a lot of crap to find what seemed like legitimate information.

 

[jeeperjohn]

copper > aluminium > brass


I spent about three hours reading up on this a few months ago. The article that I found on it was very well written and had a lot of science behind it, but I didn't bookmark it and can't find it now.

I had to tread through a lot of crap to find what seemed like legitimate information.

Can you imagine what it would cost to make an all copper radiator?

 

[bigalpha]

It would also be heavy.

 

[montanaman]

Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. I've had a CSF 3-row from Radiator Barn in my 4.0 XJ for 6 years now, and my temps have never gone above 210 ... even in the desert in Mexico ... air temps around 115+. But keep in mind I have a manual transmission and no A/C.

During the winter here in Montana, when it's 20 below, I put on a grill cover that leaves a hole in front of the mechanical fan. That allows the radiator to return warm (not hot) fluid to my motor instead of freezing cold fluid.

 

[Milford Cubicle II]

So I did find one other issue. My upper radiator hose now rubs up against my battery. It's an Optima that was originally in my buddies TJ, so if I had one speced for the XJ it probably wouldn't be an issue. With the old radiator it was pretty close but not touching. Will probably just relocate the battery to behind the driver seat to solve the problem.

I had a 34 size optima in mine and it wasn't even close to rubbing.

:dunno: maybe it's your hose?

Also, there's some wiggle room in the stock battery tray for most 34 size batteries. Maybe try scooting it over before you tighten it down.

 

[DrMoab]

Thought I would share a little insight on my Champion 3 row and dual factory fans.

In a nutshell...it's not enough. I'm on day 7 of a 10 day vacation to Silverton Colorado. If any of you are familiar with this area it's all trails above 10,000 ft. Some just over 13,000 ft and some of the roads are so steep you are in 4lo and first gear for miles.

It's been fairly cool here. In the 60's and 70's and on those long steep climbs my jeep will hold steady till I try to run the ac. Then it quickly over heats. On the way down here from Utah the temps were pushing 100 and as long as both fans were running it would stay somewhat cool.

I'm thinking I've got other complications adding to my cooling problem though. I've got the worst heat soak issue I've ever seen. At one point we couldn't get the jeep started at all. I'm also only getting around 12 mpg. This is with the mech fan gone and no front drive shaft. On 285-70-17's with 4:56 gears and a steady cruising speed at around 65 I feel this is horrible.

I have a gut feeling that my cat might be plugged. On really long pulls I can hear a rattle under the jeep which sounds suspiciously like the crap inside the cat starting to come apart.

So...maybe when I can get to the bottom of a few other issues I can keep the temps down with the two fans but I think I'm going to end up back with the mech fan or something like the triple threat electric fan set up.

 

[BlueCuda]

Disapointing to hear this. If your not travelling alone maybe you have the rescourses to do a trail side cat cleaning lol. Had to do that once when a friends jeep stopped up so bad he couldn't climb the trails in 4-low.

 

[DrMoab]

Thought about it. As rusted as everything else is on the jeep I know there would be no way to get it all apart. If it will make it home it's going to get a new one right away though.

 

[bigdaddyjlove]

Couldn't the plugged cat be contributing to the overheating?