conundrum

[seanR]

So, to day I hear about this on the radio, https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-02-04/california-s-democratic-senators-want-to-end-most-vaccine-exemptions on the radio. As a Libertarian, I am torn, I do not want "nonvaxers" sickening my loved ones, but yet I do not want the government telling me what to do with my body, or my family's body.

My motto is, "Your freedom to be you includes my freedom to be free from you."

Thoughts...

 

[xcm]

You gotta protect the group/herd. A true 100% pure libertarian is a shitty person, and there are handfulls of examples where the libertarian illusion doesnt work, at all.

Its simple, you cant opt out of paying taxes because you think it leads to down syndrome, there are just some things you gotta do in this world.

Anyone else see a little bit more of Idiocracy ever day?

 

[ehall]

The only people that get sick from non-vaxxers are other non-vaxxers. Non-fatal stuff should just be an option. Flu vaccine? go away. I don't want people xcm votes choosing what I should be injected with for my own protection.

If its fatal at a significant rate on its own (not an allergic type reaction) then vaccination is a public health issue.

I don't know where the current measles strain falls in that curve.

 

[xcm]

Says the guy that doesnt understand vaccination theory.

 

[ehall]

My dog avatar can kick your dog avatar's ass

 

[xcm]

Sure, but yours doesnt look too bright... mine has had its shots...

 

[iwannadie]

Sure, but yours doesnt look too bright... mine has had its shots...

That made me chuckle, well played.

How do you guys feel about fluoride being added to public water?

 

[seanR]

The only people that get sick from non-vaxxers are other non-vaxxers.

Not always true. A baby can be infected before they are old enough to be vaccinated.

 

[RedHeep]

I think that people should be allowed to make that choice, like they should be allowed to not wear a seatbelt, a motorcycle helmet or whether or not they want to smoke weed in their living room.

While that choice should be theirs, if it affects other people, like sending your kid to school or exposing your neighbor to your drug habit, the majority of society should be allowed to regulate it.

The problem you have is there is a 400 person minority making those decisions despite the opinions of it's constituents, so it doesn't really matter what we think.

 

[xcm]

The only people that get sick from non-vaxxers are other non-vaxxers.

Aight, now that the air is a little lighter hearted, lets get down to the actual topic. First off, I am obviously not a doctor.

A 'herd' is not 100% immunized against x disease, say polio. You immunize a large percentage accross the board, and the disease can no longer freely spread, person to person. You break the chain of the spread.

When you have a large percentage of un-immunized people in one tight group, say the Brentwood farmers market, you have a group that a disease can freely travel in, bing, bang, boom. Epidemic.

I dunno about you, but even if I was immune to a disease (hate to fear monger, but ebola?), a massive epidemic is still a concern to me. I am not trying to make anyone get a flu shot.

I dunno about anyone else, but im thankfull to the people who've created things like polio vacinnes, not to mention the 10 others i cant name.

 

[iluv83vettes]

When you have a large percentage of un-immunized people in one tight group, say the Brentwood farmers market, you have a group that a disease can freely travel in, bing, bang, boom. SOLUTION.

FIFY

 

[ehall]

I am not trying to make anyone get a flu shot.

Why not? per WebMD "the seasonal flu also hospitalizes 200,000 people in the U.S. each year. It kills between 3,000 and 49,000 people. That’s close to the number of women killed by breast cancer each year, and more than twice the number of people killed by AIDS." If we give the feds the power because think of the children then that will become mandatory at some point.

 

[TheLaredo]

Why not? per WebMD "the seasonal flu also hospitalizes 200,000 people in the U.S. each year. It kills between 3,000 and 49,000 people. That’s close to the number of women killed by breast cancer each year, and more than twice the number of people killed by AIDS." If we give the feds the power because think of the children then that will become mandatory at some point.

Because I don't know what is in that flu shot besides the dead strain. Im not a paranoid conspiracy theorist but I honestly do believe that their is something else in the vaccines that big pharma and the gubmint aren't telling us.

Im not an anti-vaxxer, I have had all my shots growing up and a few of them put me in the hospital.

 

[GSequoia]

Im not a paranoid conspiracy theorist but I honestly do believe that their is something else in the vaccines that big pharma and the gubmint aren't telling us.

Nah, you are paranoid.


I'm pro-vax. The only exemption valid to me is medical. Anti-vaxxers are idiots trying to sound smart.

Flu vax doesn't need to be mandatory. One reason being flu is a general term, there is not one flu vaccine, that's why you need a new one every year (and why sometimes they miss the mark on predicting which strain will be active in a particular year).

 

[x-jay vision]

I want a vaccine to protect me from the stupidity excreted from anti-vaxxers. Seems like it might be contagious...

 

[ehall]

Flu vax doesn't need to be mandatory. One reason being flu is a general term, there is not one flu vaccine, that's why you need a new one every year (and why sometimes they miss the mark on predicting which strain will be active in a particular year).

That's not an argument for why it doesn't need to be mandatory, its an argument for why they will mandate more than one

 

[RedHeep]

It's not like you all are getting the smallpox vaccine. I have the scar for that one.

 

[ehall]

I got all the stuff and then some, and I'm perfectly fine

*tic*

 

[8Mud]

Like most things it morphs into a political decision instead of a rational decision. Personally I'm going to study the factors and make a decision most always on what the odds are.

Whichever solution has the better infighters (politicians) is likely to be implemented, while the real threat may or may not be addressed.

Empirical knowledge is often as good as or better than the flavor of the day. What you as an individual observe is likely to be valid, maybe more so than whatever is being advocated.

I've known very few people who have died or been permanently damaged by cigarette smoking. I've had contact with many more who have died or been seriously damaged by Meningitis. You rarely hear anybody talk about getting a Meningitis shot. You hear almost daily about the evils of cigarette smoking.

I've only known one person who had lung cancer and he was a chemist for a major cosmetics company. He was a smoker, who worked with a plethora of chemicals daily. Who knows whether it was the chemicals, the smoking or genetics that got him?

I've known a few who died of Colon cancer. And many who have died of eating or drinking themselves to death, basic gluttony.

Old school vaccinations, that have been around for generations are likely to be safe, at least for the vast majority. I'm always a bit skeptical about new and/or new and improved.

My youngest son had the Mumps and 2-3 weeks later turned type one diabetic. The Doctors say there is no relation between the two. I'm not a big believer in coincidence . I wish he had a Mumps vaccine. The wife and her new age ideology may have cost him a lifetime of grief. The Mumps vaccine was unlikely to hurt him. I had a buddy who had the Mumps as a child and lost his Testicles, ask him what he thinks about the Mumps vaccine?

Observed data (your personnel experience) is often just as valuable or more valuable than politicized agenda.

 

[tbburg]

My biggest problem with most "antivaxers" is they're taking medical advice from Jenny McCarthy. That almost qualifies as child abuse by itself. In general, it seems that most anti-v parents don't want their toddlers to get vaccinated because "autism". This isn't really an issue by the time the kids are school-aged, as any autism diagnosis has already happened.

So here's a happy medium. Don't want the kids to be vaccinated? Fine. Don't send them to public school. Private schools of course, can make their own policies. Want an exemption? Does your kid have a suppressed or compromised immune system? Here's your exemption. Just don't like it? 'Door's behind you. Religious exemption? What are you doing here? So why isn't your kid in a private religious school? Door's behind you.

There are reasons some people can't get vaccinations. "Because Jenny said" isn't one of them. But again. if that's what you believe, fine. Just don't put the rest of societies kids art risk.