California takes a step backwards!

[JNickel101]

Chain of communications means nothing to me....skip it. I can easily say my buddy Steve here, is a prophet, and he tells me he talks to God. We're gonna write a book together about what God is telling him. In 2000 years, is half the world gonna say "this is FACT". Hmmmm....maybe?

A lot of science, including what Mr. Einstein did, is based on theory. His best work is STILL called "The Theory of Relativity". Its as close to fact as you can get without calling it a definite fact.

Never heard a Christian call their beliefs "The Theory of Christianity" - Christians interchange the words FAITH/BELIEF with the word FACT.

If your best arguement is "well, just about anything is possible"....wow....

Sounds like the same arguement that they used in ancient times explaining how the Earth was flat - no scientific proof, but "hey, anything is possible and this is what we think is true..." (actually, "they" said this is what we KNOW is true, til some dude, Mr Columbus, proved that wrong)

Look where that ended up...

FYI, I've had this debate with numerous Christians, and they all just end up getting REALLY mad at me, because they can't comprehend that I don't believe their "clear cut facts".

I simply ask to show me proof!

 

[8Mud]

Chain of communications means nothing to me....skip it. I can easily say my buddy Steve here, is a prophet, and he tells me he talks to God. We're gonna write a book together about what God is telling him. In 2000 years, is half the world gonna say "this is FACT". Hmmmm....maybe?

A lot of science, including what Mr. Einstein did, is based on theory. His best work is STILL called "The Theory of Relativity". Its as close to fact as you can get without calling it a definite fact.

Never heard a Christian call their beliefs "The Theory of Christianity" - Christians interchange the words FAITH/BELIEF with the word FACT.

If your best arguement is "well, just about anything is possible"....wow....

Sounds like the same arguement that they used in ancient times explaining how the Earth was flat - no scientific proof, but "hey, anything is possible and this is what we think is true..." (actually, "they" said this is what we KNOW is true, til some dude, Mr Columbus, proved that wrong)

Look where that ended up...

FYI, I've had this debate with numerous Christians, and they all just end up getting REALLY mad at me, because they can't comprehend that I don't believe their "clear cut facts".

I simply ask to show me proof!

The Earth isn't round either, it's actually kind of Pear shaped and sea level isn't constant, underwater mountains actually pull the water (by gravity) into a non spherical form (lumps). If somebody was to task me with finding the exact average sea level, I'd likely lack the knowledge or tools.
Absolutes are few and far between in this universe and we are just beginning to take our baby steps in understanding them.
I don't think I've ever told you I accept the Bible thumping Christian doctrine. I'm fairly certain there are lessons in the Book I should pay attention to. I'm fairly certain there is something bigger than "I". I'm sure not arrogant enough to discount all of it as being something fanciful and irrelevant.

 

[JNickel101]

I dont discount "all" of it - just the all or nothing extremes that most Christians seem to exhibit. I think the Bible is a great book full of - as you said - lessons - and stories. It provides someone a good idea of how to be a good person and live a good life.

Gravity of the moon changes sea depth/tides too. Yes, I know the earth isnt "round" like a perfect sphere, but its shape is more roundish than flat. Now you're just being anal. Exact average - isnt that a contradictory statement? That would be zero by the way. Sea level is always represented by "0". Sea depth...well, yeah, of course that depends on the terrain of the ocean floor. And the position of the moon. And probably current. But anyway...tangent - who cares.

I thought the earth was more tangerine shaped....unless you have some weird pears over there in Europa.

 

[8Mud]

I dont discount "all" of it - just the all or nothing extremes that most Christians seem to exhibit. I think the Bible is a great book full of - as you said - lessons - and stories. It provides someone a good idea of how to be a good person and live a good life.

Gravity of the moon changes sea depth/tides too. Yes, I know the earth isnt "round" like a perfect sphere, but its shape is more roundish than flat. Now you're just being anal. Exact average - isnt that a contradictory statement? That would be zero by the way. Sea level is always represented by "0". Sea depth...well, yeah, of course that depends on the terrain of the ocean floor. And the position of the moon. And probably current. But anyway...tangent - who cares.

I thought the earth was more tangerine shaped....unless you have some weird pears over there in Europa.

Somebody decided it was round, before they actually deserned it's shape, no doubt, in my textbooks when I was in school it was portrayed as a near perfect sphere. The last I heard was it was Pear shaped, of course we may have plumper Pears here.
The point was assumptions are often proved wrong, having an open mind is usually the best course, in my experience. I'm not saying making the same old mistakes in the same old way isn't dumb though.

Something I found interesting, the red X seems to be the starting point for everybody in the larger area (the one that looks like a man laughing) and genetically traces back to four women. They are guessing somewhere in Lebanon. It's still a work in progress. I think as the processing power of computers increases and the gene is studied a lot of things may clarify themselves. Of course there is always the possibility that it will just generate more questions.

Homo Sapien Peregrinus

 

[ZomBrady]

Christianity-

The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. . .

And this was all written down in a book that was dictated to man by god and tell us that stoning rape victims is good?

Yeah, this all makes perfect sense to me.

 

[8Mud]

Christianity-

The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. . .

And this was all written down in a book that was dictated to man by god and tell us that stoning rape victims is good?

Yeah, this all makes perfect sense to me.

Absolutely correct and that line of reasoning makes using some guys ears as handle bars, a perfectly acceptable behavior.:wave:

 

[98XJSport]

If you get a relatively few yahoos with a grand social idea and they legislate a drastic change in the social structure, just how likely is this to have a beneficial affect on natural selection or divine guidance? I see it as arrogance run rampant, no matter what your beliefs.

Isn't that how most religions are started?

If enough people believe that what you are saying is fact, then it is a fact. If all the wealthy and educated think it is a fact, it becomes fact. They are the ones that write the books, so they pass their "facts" on. They are the ones the poor and uneducated aspire to be, so they copy and pass on thier "facts". They are the conquerors, and the saviors to the "savages". Believe their "facts", or die.

Suppose that every day you were asked if the sky was green, and you said no and recieved a beating. It's only a matter of time before you said yes, and not much longer before you believed that yes, the sky is green. (You as in the reader of this rant, not a personal attack by saying you as a poster of opposing views :cheers

At the end of the day, the truest arrogance of man is claiming to know something. We know nothing. It's laudable to think that all of existance was created just for us to enjoy. If this is the best God can do, he needs more practice. I don't claim to know what is out there, but I know theres more to it than just this that we see. God, Science, aliens, cosmic prank who knows. All I can control is the day to day stuff that makes me happy and doesn't hurt others. If someone wants to pursue something that makes them happy, and doesn't cause others harm, more power to them.

 

[8Mud]

Isn't that how most religions are started?

If enough people believe that what you are saying is fact, then it is a fact. If all the wealthy and educated think it is a fact, it becomes fact. They are the ones that write the books, so they pass their "facts" on. They are the ones the poor and uneducated aspire to be, so they copy and pass on thier "facts". They are the conquerors, and the saviors to the "savages". Believe their "facts", or die.

Suppose that every day you were asked if the sky was green, and you said no and recieved a beating. It's only a matter of time before you said yes, and not much longer before you believed that yes, the sky is green. (You as in the reader of this rant, not a personal attack by saying you as a poster of opposing views :cheers

At the end of the day, the truest arrogance of man is claiming to know something. We know nothing. It's laudable to think that all of existance was created just for us to enjoy. If this is the best God can do, he needs more practice. I don't claim to know what is out there, but I know theres more to it than just this that we see. God, Science, aliens, cosmic prank who knows. All I can control is the day to day stuff that makes me happy and doesn't hurt others. If someone wants to pursue something that makes them happy, and doesn't cause others harm, more power to them.

It's really very simple, on a practical level, people, especially young ones, those easily lead or influenced or those with a stunted maturity are likely to copy others behaviors. In other words, we give them every opportunity to mess up, in numerous ways.
It doesn't have to be either or, if they just have a phase, they can be lead down an unhappy path.
I worry about my youngest, he has a compulsive personality. He is by no means unique. I tend to limit his exposure to aberrant behaviors, I always have the fear he will take the bit into his teeth and run with it. Eventually he will gain some wisdom and make wiser choices. I also encourage him, whenever possible, to do the right thing. The right I've taught him, is some different than what the liberals and Hollywood have taught him.
The body politic has decided what is and what isn't acceptable and Hollywood will likely bombard his brain with handsome, witty and apparently happy homosexuals. They never show you the other side, sphincter reconstructions (leaky plumbing), tormented young men caught in an unhappy lifestyle.
What are the apparent results of splashing sex all over the TV, pregnant thirteen year olds. I saw the little miss slut collection of clothes on the Simpsons the other day.
I listen to my sons attitudes, women are an orifice, with about the same worth as furniture (so much for womens rights). Use them and move on to the next one. On the womens side, they get together and brag about who has had this guy or that guy, who has the highest box score.
What's the next step in evolution? We put more players on the field and call it equal opportunity?
Last question, who do we hold accountable when/if it all goes terrible wrong.
If it goes right, the worst that can happen is that I'm wrong, if it all goes wrong, at least I'll be able to look at myself in the mirror.
My experience tells me most progressive social initiatives go wrong one way or another, sometimes way wrong.

 

[JNickel101]

Christianity-

The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. . .

And this was all written down in a book that was dictated to man by god and tell us that stoning rape victims is good?

Yeah, this all makes perfect sense to me.

:roflmao:

:cheers: that's awesome....

 

[JNickel101]

It's really very simple, on a practical level, people, especially young ones, those easily lead or influenced or those with a stunted maturity are likely to copy others behaviors. In other words, we give them every opportunity to mess up, in numerous ways.
It doesn't have to be either or, if they just have a phase, they can be lead down an unhappy path.
I worry about my youngest, he has a compulsive personality. He is by no means unique. I tend to limit his exposure to aberrant behaviors, I always have the fear he will take the bit into his teeth and run with it. Eventually he will gain some wisdom and make wiser choices. I also encourage him, whenever possible, to do the right thing. The right I've taught him, is some different than what the liberals and Hollywood have taught him.
The body politic has decided what is and what isn't acceptable and Hollywood will likely bombard his brain with handsome, witty and apparently happy homosexuals. They never show you the other side, sphincter reconstructions (leaky plumbing), tormented young men caught in an unhappy lifestyle.
What are the apparent results of splashing sex all over the TV, pregnant thirteen year olds. I saw the little miss slut collection of clothes on the Simpsons the other day.
I listen to my sons attitudes, women are an orifice, with about the same worth as furniture (so much for womens rights). Use them and move on to the next one. On the womens side, they get together and brag about who has had this guy or that guy, who has the highest box score.
What's the next step in evolution? We put more players on the field and call it equal opportunity?
Last question, who do we hold accountable when/if it all goes terrible wrong.
If it goes right, the worst that can happen is that I'm wrong, if it all goes wrong, at least I'll be able to look at myself in the mirror.
My experience tells me most progressive social initiatives go wrong one way or another, sometimes way wrong.

Thats a lame excuse - "well, at least if i'm wrong, no harm, no foul" - UNLESS you're choosing the wrong deity to worship!!!

If you're wrong, you've also wasted an awful lot of time/effort/money/etc on a wild goose chase. Or maybe the "final test" is to see who DIDN'T fall for the biggest prank in human history.

FAIL :explosion

 

[8Mud]

Thats a lame excuse - "well, at least if i'm wrong, no harm, no foul" - UNLESS you're choosing the wrong deity to worship!!!

If you're wrong, you've also wasted an awful lot of time/effort/money/etc on a wild goose chase. Or maybe the "final test" is to see who DIDN'T fall for the biggest prank in human history.

FAIL :explosion

Plus or minus, up until fairly recently, the Jewish Zombie is the one who got many of us as far as we are today.
And now mankind has matured enough it's time to cut the strings of tradition and fly.
Remember rocket dog? Just where are you going and what is the landing going to be like?

 

[ZomBrady]

Plus or minus, up until fairly recently, the Jewish Zombie is the one who got many of us as far as we are today.
And now mankind has matured enough it's time to cut the strings of tradition and fly.
Remember rocket dog? Just where are you going and what is the landing going to be like?

Once upon a time, mankind believed that thunder and lightening were the gods fighting, and this was TRUTH. Now we know that they are the sudden exchange of electrons between clouds and the ground and the shockwave of that exchange.

Truths change with time. We may not 'know' where we're going, but I'm excited to see the process. Sometimes we stumble and fall along the way(the Inquisition?) but we pick ourselves up and continue on anyway. Maybe it's time to lay to rest the tribal myths that we've clung to for some many generations?

 

[Ray H]

People will always believe in something. People have a need to fill in the blanks. If they dont know the answer, they make one up. This goes for science as well as religion.
I think the key to the truth is in the beginning. What started it all? When we find the answer to that, we will figure out the rest.
Obviously, nothing CAN NOT become something, so where di the original "something" come from.
Religion will tell you that god created everything, but where did god come from. Did god creat himself? How is that possible?
Science will tell you that everything came from a single atom. Where did that original atom come from?
The point is you can not start with nothing and end up with something. If we answer that one, the rest will follow.

 

[TRNDRVR]

What's up?

 

[karstic]

What's up?

You've eaten a helluva lotta popcorn. Got some more....

 

[Darky]

Do you believe in dark matter? How about gluons? Ever seen any of them? Know of anyone who has? Science "knows" dark matter and/or gluons must exist because they can't figure out what holds the universe together. Thus far science has been unsuccessful in actually finding the dark matter or gluons, yet they still put that forth as the explanation. In the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) in Europe, they are testing specifically to see these things. Its a 13 mile long circular tunnel that crosses the borders of three countries. I forget exactly how deep it is. They fire an atom from itand have these gigantic sensors and recorders to see what flies out the instant it explodes. They just know they will see dark matter. As of yet, nothing. So, they add onto what they know about it. Now they know that it must be vibrating at a frequency which allows it to pass through their sensors undetected, hell, its probably shooting straight through the Earth and we don't know it! That's why they can't see it.
Believe in evolution? Was anyone alive to observe and record the evolution that Darwin claims occurred and everyone now excepts as fact? Was Darwin alive throughout those millions of years to write the book about how it happened?
Applying your logic to the natural world gets you to the same place as you're trying to send religion; a dead end. Belief in the theory of evolution or the existence of dark matter is no more respectable than belief in God if you want to look at it from the standpoint of quantifiable scientific evidence. It just happens to be what man has invented to avoid having to admit he is not master of this world, that there is someone higher than he is. Saying there's particles and matter that no one can see just because something has to be holding the world together is just a cop out to avoid believing in God, and it requires even more blind faith than belief in the Lord as our Creator.
JNickel, you want to know which book was actually written by God? None of it. It was passed on to man from God through prophets in the Old Testament along with much that was written by eyewitness accounts, and the apostles and later the first members of the Christian church in the New Testament. The Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) were written by the men who bore the name of each book and they were 4 of the original 12 apostles. They saw everything that happened and wrote of what they saw. The epistles of Paul (Romans, Ephesians, I and II Corinthians, Phillippians, etc) were all written by one of the great men of God who was spoken to directly by the Lord while he was still persecuting the original church. Paul was a high ranking Jewish leader and was converted while travelling to try some Christians as heretics (or whatever the word used back then was) when God struck him blind and told him to go see a man in the next city who would heal him and show him the way. He was led there by his servants I believe and with his conversion, he changed his name from Saul to Paul.

Brad, that's a nice collection of scriptures outlining the Old Testament law. Unfortunately, in the New Testament, Jesus came to fulfil the law. He paid the price for sin under the law, which was death. Under the New Covenant in Jesus, the price for sin is still death, but all you have to do is accept Jesus' payment. This doesn't give you carte blanche to sin at will and ask for forgiveness later. You have to repent. That means to turn about, to turn your back on. If you ask for forgiveness knowing you plan on doing it again, that's no good. God doesn't sell fire insurance...

 

[ZomBrady]

Do you believe in dark matter? How about gluons? Ever seen any of them? Know of anyone who has? Science "knows" dark matter and/or gluons must exist because they can't figure out what holds the universe together. Thus far science has been unsuccessful in actually finding the dark matter or gluons, yet they still put that forth as the explanation. In the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) in Europe, they are testing specifically to see these things. Its a 13 mile long circular tunnel that crosses the borders of three countries. I forget exactly how deep it is. They fire an atom from itand have these gigantic sensors and recorders to see what flies out the instant it explodes. They just know they will see dark matter. As of yet, nothing. So, they add onto what they know about it. Now they know that it must be vibrating at a frequency which allows it to pass through their sensors undetected, hell, its probably shooting straight through the Earth and we don't know it! That's why they can't see it.
Believe in evolution? Was anyone alive to observe and record the evolution that Darwin claims occurred and everyone now excepts as fact? Was Darwin alive throughout those millions of years to write the book about how it happened?
Applying your logic to the natural world gets you to the same place as you're trying to send religion; a dead end. Belief in the theory of evolution or the existence of dark matter is no more respectable than belief in God if you want to look at it from the standpoint of quantifiable scientific evidence. It just happens to be what man has invented to avoid having to admit he is not master of this world, that there is someone higher than he is. Saying there's particles and matter that no one can see just because something has to be holding the world together is just a cop out to avoid believing in God, and it requires even more blind faith than belief in the Lord as our Creator.
JNickel, you want to know which book was actually written by God? None of it. It was passed on to man from God through prophets in the Old Testament along with much that was written by eyewitness accounts, and the apostles and later the first members of the Christian church in the New Testament. The Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) were written by the men who bore the name of each book and they were 4 of the original 12 apostles. They saw everything that happened and wrote of what they saw. The epistles of Paul (Romans, Ephesians, I and II Corinthians, Phillippians, etc) were all written by one of the great men of God who was spoken to directly by the Lord while he was still persecuting the original church. Paul was a high ranking Jewish leader and was converted while travelling to try some Christians as heretics (or whatever the word used back then was) when God struck him blind and told him to go see a man in the next city who would heal him and show him the way. He was led there by his servants I believe and with his conversion, he changed his name from Saul to Paul.

Brad, that's a nice collection of scriptures outlining the Old Testament law. Unfortunately, in the New Testament, Jesus came to fulfil the law. He paid the price for sin under the law, which was death. Under the New Covenant in Jesus, the price for sin is still death, but all you have to do is accept Jesus' payment. This doesn't give you carte blanche to sin at will and ask for forgiveness later. You have to repent. That means to turn about, to turn your back on. If you ask for forgiveness knowing you plan on doing it again, that's no good. God doesn't sell fire insurance...

Two things. . .

1: Science seeks to find evidence to support theory. Religion require blind faith in that which is unprovable. Gravity is a theory, not Natural Science Law, but I see evidence of it every time I drop something on my toe.

2: The basis of this thread is the intolerance of some which is rooted in biblical scriptures FROM the old testament. So some people haven't caught up with the new testament then?

 

[Trail-Axe]

How many billions of people believed the Earth was both flat AND at the center of the universe? Sun revolved around the Earth?

Just because a bunch of people "think" something is true, doesn't mean it is fact.

You can see atomic particles with an electron microscope. What device do you use to "see" God?

Again....which book of the Bible was written by God himself?

You can not see wind either my friend, but you can observe the effects of wind all around you. Though I do not see God, I can observe everything He has made all around me. The Ten Commandments were written by God Himself. As far as the earth being flat, the Bible records that it was round some 1000 years before the birth of Christ. (Isaiah 40:22).

The reason why the Bible can be trusted as the true words from God is because of the prophecies recorded in it that have come true. There were over 300 of them that came true just by the birth of Christ alone. The mathematical possibility of that happening would be like covering the state of Texas with quarters, painting one side red on ONE quarter, and then being able to pick that quarter up the first time, and that is for only one prophecy. If we discount the Bible, and what it says, then we might as well discount every history book ever written, because the Bible passes the most scrupulous test of any history book ever recorded.

The book of Isaiah contains many prophecies concerning the Messiah. The book of Isaiah was written some 1000 years before the birth of Christ. Skeptics like yourself use to say that the book of Isaiah must have been written after the birth of Christ, but then came the Dead Sea scrolls, in which we have a complete copy of the book of Isaiah, and when compared to the copy we have in our Bible, it was right on.

Here are just a few:
Micah 5:2 -Predicted that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.
Isaiah 53: -Predicted that the Messiah would suffer for the sins of His people.


Isaiah 53:
Who hath believed our report? And to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[JNickel101]

Two things. . .

1: Science seeks to find evidence to support theory. Religion require blind faith in that which is unprovable. Gravity is a theory, not Natural Science Law, but I see evidence of it every time I drop something on my toe.

2: The basis of this thread is the intolerance of some which is rooted in biblical scriptures FROM the old testament. So some people haven't caught up with the new testament then?

I couldnt have said it any better...

:cheers:

Glad we're on the same page Brad

 

[Trail-Axe]

Two things. . .

1: Science seeks to find evidence to support theory. Religion require blind faith in that which is unprovable. Gravity is a theory, not Natural Science Law, but I see evidence of it every time I drop something on my toe.

Religion is not blind faith my friend. Sorry, that argument was trumped a long time ago, please do not bring up arguments that have already been refuted, you just look foolish doing so.
Is the Bible Scientifically Accurate?

Science is knowledge. It is what we know. With this definition, science and the Bible are in perfect harmony. There is no evidence to suggest the Bible is inaccurate in any of its statements regarding creation or scientific facts. In fact, the more advances are made in science, the more it has proven the truth of the Bible!

Now, everyone knows that there are plenty of popular theories in the scientific community that contradict the Bible, the most notable being evolution. Yet even in this case, evolution is not pure science, for it is not known, but only theorized. No evidence contradicting what the Bible says has been produced by evolution-believers.

As science has advanced over the centuries, stunning discoveries have shown that not only is the Bible scientifically accurate, but the Bible actually made scientific statements about nature hundreds of years before man discovered them! For example, look at the following….

-The Bible said that the earth was round 1600 years before man figured it out. (Isa. 40:22)

-The Bible said that the earth is suspended in space 3600 years before man discovered it. (Job 26:7)

-The Bible said that the universe is running down only 2500 years before man found out. (Isaiah 51:6, Ps. 102:26, Rom 8:20-21)

-The Bible said that blood sustains life 3300 years before man would agree. (Lev. 17:11)

-The Bible said the stars produce sound 4000 years before man found out. (Job 38:7)

-The Bible said that the earth rotates on an axis 3550 years before scientists discovered the same. (Job 38:12, Luke 17:31,34)

-The Bible said that the stars cannot be numbered 3000 years before astronomers figured it out. (Genesis 15:5, 22:17)

-The Bible said that man is made from the same materials as the earth 3200 years before man found out. (Gen. 2:8, 3:19, Ps. 103:14)

The Bible is most definitely scientific--it is totally accurate and has often demonstrated that God knows more about science than man. (This would make sense, seeing that God is the One who invented science itself!) Read Job 38-42.

Remember this: People never reject the Bible because of their science, they reject the Bible because of their sin. To admit that the Bible is right is to admit that we are obligated to follow what it says--and many would still foolishly hold to the opinions of men rather than the Word of the True God. -Absolute truth.net