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California takes a step backwards!

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This is getting Way to deep. The only comment I have quoting scriptures is that they are written so veg that you can interpret them in to many different things to suit your needs. I can remember when I had to study the Bible When I was In a Christan High School, after reading and studying the Bible for two years, For me personally I became a atheist.
 
2: The basis of this thread is the intolerance of some which is rooted in biblical scriptures FROM the old testament. So some people haven't caught up with the new testament then?

Fromt the New Testament:
Romans 1:24-27
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Gal 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

And let me close with this, Christians do not wish to condemn anyone, but to warn those we see heading away from God. Because apart from Him, there is no other place, but Hell.
 
Ok, so evolution doesn't exist?

Antibiotic resistant bacteria?

Forced evolution? Dogs being bread from wolves.

Oh yeah, how old is the Earth again? I would like to see some proof that Adam and Eve played with dinosaurs.
 
FordGuy said:
This is getting Way to deep. The only comment I have quoting scriptures is that they are written so veg that you can interpret them in to many different things to suit your needs. I can remember when I had to study the Bible When I was In a Christan High School, after reading and studying the Bible for two years, For me personally I became a atheist.

That is cool, man, at least you had an opportunity to study it, some never do. I respect your conclusions, even if I believe them to be gravely wrong. :)
 
Trail-Axe said:
You can not see wind either my friend, but you can observe the effects of wind all around you. Though I do not see God, I can observe everything He has made all around me. The Ten Commandments were written by God Himself. As far as the earth being flat, the Bible records that it was round some 1000 years before the birth of Christ. (Isaiah 40:22).

The reason why the Bible can be trusted as the true words from God is because of the prophecies recorded in it that have come true. There were over 300 of them that came true just by the birth of Christ alone. The mathematical possibility of that happening would be like covering the state of Texas with quarters, painting one side red on ONE quarter, and then being able to pick that quarter up the first time, and that is for only one prophecy. If we discount the Bible, and what it says, then we might as well discount every history book ever written, because the Bible passes the most scrupulous test of any history book ever recorded.

The book of Isaiah contains many prophecies concerning the Messiah. The book of Isaiah was written some 1000 years before the birth of Christ. Skeptics like yourself use to say that the book of Isaiah must have been written after the birth of Christ, but then came the Dead Sea scrolls, in which we have a complete copy of the book of Isaiah, and when compared to the copy we have in our Bible, it was right on. :)

Here are just a few:
Micah 5:2 -Predicted that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.
Isaiah 53: -Predicted that the Messiah would suffer for the sins of His people.


Isaiah 53:
Who hath believed our report? And to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.



#1 Isaiah 40:22: "circle of the Earth" - as in, a flat circle. A circle is a 2 dimentional object. A sphere is 3 dimentional. Next.

#2 Isaiah 11:12: references "four corners of the Earth" - ok Isaiah, which is it, round or square? Make up your mind.

#3 How about the difference between "Old Testament God" and "New Testament God" - your God clearly changed his mind about what to do and how to do it. It shows he made a mistake and is fallible.

#4 (from skepticsannotatedbible) "Bethlehem Ephratah" in Micah 5:2 refers not to a town, but to a clan: the clan of Bethlehem, who was the son of Caleb's second wife, Ephrathah"

"The prophecy (if that is what it is) does not refer to the Messiah, but rather to a military leader, as can be seen from verse 5:6. This leader is supposed to defeat the Assyrians, which, of course, Jesus never did."

You observe the effects of what you BELIEVE is God's work...not what you KNOW. Can you say thick headed?
 
Ugggh...do I really have to look up every verse you are posting and prove it wrong? Like FordGuy said, can you say VAGUE.
 
Trail-Axe said:
Religion is not blind faith my friend. Sorry, that argument was trumped a long time ago, please do not bring up arguments that have already been refuted, you just look foolish doing so.
Is the Bible Scientifically Accurate?

Science is knowledge. It is what we know. With this definition, science and the Bible are in perfect harmony. There is no evidence to suggest the Bible is inaccurate in any of its statements regarding creation or scientific facts. In fact, the more advances are made in science, the more it has proven the truth of the Bible!

Now, everyone knows that there are plenty of popular theories in the scientific community that contradict the Bible, the most notable being evolution. Yet even in this case, evolution is not pure science, for it is not known, but only theorized. No evidence contradicting what the Bible says has been produced by evolution-believers.

As science has advanced over the centuries, stunning discoveries have shown that not only is the Bible scientifically accurate, but the Bible actually made scientific statements about nature hundreds of years before man discovered them! For example, look at the following….

-The Bible said that the earth was round 1600 years before man figured it out. (Isa. 40:22)

-The Bible said that the earth is suspended in space 3600 years before man discovered it. (Job 26:7)

-The Bible said that the universe is running down only 2500 years before man found out. (Isaiah 51:6, Ps. 102:26, Rom 8:20-21)

-The Bible said that blood sustains life 3300 years before man would agree. (Lev. 17:11)

-The Bible said the stars produce sound 4000 years before man found out. (Job 38:7)

-The Bible said that the earth rotates on an axis 3550 years before scientists discovered the same. (Job 38:12, Luke 17:31,34)

-The Bible said that the stars cannot be numbered 3000 years before astronomers figured it out. (Genesis 15:5, 22:17)

-The Bible said that man is made from the same materials as the earth 3200 years before man found out. (Gen. 2:8, 3:19, Ps. 103:14)

The Bible is most definitely scientific--it is totally accurate and has often demonstrated that God knows more about science than man. (This would make sense, seeing that God is the One who invented science itself!) Read Job 38-42.

Remember this: People never reject the Bible because of their science, they reject the Bible because of their sin. To admit that the Bible is right is to admit that we are obligated to follow what it says--and many would still foolishly hold to the opinions of men rather than the Word of the True God. -Absolute truth.net

Wow...

Well, I looked up your verses, and I must say none of them are scientific. Saying the stars are singing does not mean they produce cosmic radio waves. Where do you find this stuff?

Oh and check your verses about Earth rotating on its axis. They were WAY off. Nothing even mentioning anything close to that.

I could go on and on...but your rhetoric tires me. I feel like I'm arguing with a fence post.
 
Trail-Axe said:
Remember this: People never reject the Bible because of their science, they reject the Bible because of their sin. To admit that the Bible is right is to admit that we are obligated to follow what it says--and many would still foolishly hold to the opinions of men rather than the Word of the True God. -Absolute truth.net

You can have your beliefs, I dont agree with them, but they are yours, not mine, and I wouldnt have it any other way.
But to say I reject the bible because of my sin is just stupid.
If I rejct the bible, then to me, sin doesnt exist. Right?

You should take a road trip and go through the Creation Musium. You would learn alot about your faith and the science behind religion. I went through it last week and while I dont believe in god, I learned alot about the beliefs of people who do. To be blunt, I learned that you can put a square peg in a round hole if you believe it will fit. (dont get too fussy about that statement, they feel the same way about me) Again, thats just my opinion and it has zero to do with my "sins". It has to do with how my brain wraps itself around the science.
 
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Ray H said:
To be blunt, I learned that you can put a square peg in a round hole if you believe it will fit. (dont get too fussy about that statement, they feel the same way about me)

"If you pray hard enough, water will flow uphill. How hard? Hard enough for water to flow uphill, of course!" -Lazarus Long

The principal problem with the whole "faith" thing is that there are sceptics like me, who are only really concerned with things we can see, touch, or otherwise sense directly (yes, I can't see the wind. But, I can sense it - when it blows my hair around, when it cools me off, ...)

And, I've never been much for taking the word of a third party - which is what most of these evangelical types are to me in the first place. I don't want to hear what someone says, after it's gone through someone else and picked up extra "spin" - tell me directly. I'm (usually) a reasonable man, and I'm willing to be convinced.

Just give me something I can work with, and don't send it by proxy.
 
5-90 said:
"And, I've never been much for taking the word of a third party - which is what most of these evangelical types are to me in the first place. I don't want to hear what someone says, after it's gone through someone else and picked up extra "spin" - tell me directly. I'm (usually) a reasonable man, and I'm willing to be convinced.

Just give me something I can work with, and don't send it by proxy.

Theres always a third party involved. You may feel the wind in your hair but how do you know its not god blowing his nose? Because someone told you its blowing because of tempurature differences in the upper atmosphere so thats what you believe.
Everyone picks out the bits of information that makes the most sense to them and they run with that.
 
SBrad001 said:
Oh yeah, how old is the Earth again? I would like to see some proof that Adam and Eve played with dinosaurs.
Dude, it's in a museum:

DINOSAURhq1.jpg


-----Matt-----
 
Ray H said:
Theres always a third party involved. You may feel the wind in your hair but how do you know its not god blowing his nose? Because someone told you its blowing because of tempurature differences in the upper atmosphere so thats what you believe.
Everyone picks out the bits of information that makes the most sense to them and they run with that.

I feel the wind. I know it is the wind. It is caused by temperature differentials? Is it caused by God blowing His nose? It is someone waving a bigass fan? I don't know - I've never seen where the wind comes from, I just know it happens.

Rain is water falling from the sky - unless your Matt Groening. Then, rain is just God peeing on you. Either way - I know it's water falling from the sky. I can make some educated guesses as to how it got up there in the first place, but that doesn't change the fact that it's falling from the sky and I can feel and see that.

Why is the sky blue? When snow melts, where does the white go? Who cares? Children live with what they see and they sense - and know nothing else until someone teaches them (my grandson is two - I find him refreshing.) I've lived so long with the "What If?" game that I'm tired, and I'm just trying to deal with what I can see in front of me most of the time in an effort to simplify.

I know most of the theories well enough to explain them, and I can live experientially. Given a choice, I'm coming to prefer the latter...
 
TRNDRVR said:
Oh my F*CKING GAWD......end this F*CKING thread already! :sure:

Did you run out of popcorn? :eeks1:
 
There's been numerous, very intelligent men who've tried to prove the Bible wrong, and in failing to do so they have been forced to admit that it is correct and have become Christians. There's been scientists and archaeologists as well as just plain ol thinkers.

Brad: Your examples don't show evolution, they show adaptation. Or more accurately, they don't show macro-evolution but micro-evolution. I think you'll see that the problem I, and most other people who believe the Bible to be true, have with evolution is macro-evolution. The assumption that bacteria went from single celled to multi-celled to fish, to lizards, to dinos, to birds, to monkeys, to people. Yes, I know that's not the "official" timeline, but you get my point. Animals and people adapt to their surroundings and environment all the time. That's a proven fact and I won't argue that. :) 200 years ago people knew that man had evolved from monkeys and that blacks and other colored folk were closer to monkeys than the more evolved white people. They knew this to be true and so it was ok to take a pygmy from Africa and put him on display in the NY Zoo back in 1906. Its ok because he was less than human. This is the link here. It takes you to an article in the NY Times so you can't say its just propaganda spread by creationist papers...;)
 
Ive become very tolerant of the religious views of other. My wife and her family are very religious. They are very active in church, my BIL is actually a paster. Im sure they dont understand my views but Ive tried to understand theirs. Ive attended church functions and other religious outings (such as the Creation Musium) in an attempt to gather information so I can make a more informed decision. After listening to their ideas, my conclusion still remains the same, I dont believe in god. It has nothing to do with ignorance or sin, it has to do with me weighing the evidence and coming up with a conclusion that makes sense to me.
 
Right....so you're saying its correct that the Earth was created in 7 days? Not 4.5 billion years?
 
Ray H said:
Theres always a third party involved. You may feel the wind in your hair but how do you know its not god blowing his nose? Because someone told you its blowing because of tempurature differences in the upper atmosphere so thats what you believe.
Everyone picks out the bits of information that makes the most sense to them and they run with that.
This is truth. You won't convince me that the Bible is merely a book of nice ideas and stories, and there's not much chance I'll convince any of you heathens ;):D that it's anything more than that. If I maybe plant a seed in someone's mind, great. If nothing else, its been an interesting debate. :)


PS: In case the smileys weren't enough, I was indeed joking with the heathens comment. :) I'll wheel with any of you and have a beer afterwards. :cheers: We'll just religious debates to the intarweb. ;)

Oh, and JNickel, the Earth was created in 6 days...God rested on the 7th. Carbon 14 dating has been shown inaccurate and the strata of the Earth have been shown that they could be replicated in much less time than science believes. The Mt St Helens explosion created millions of years worth of strata in the space of a couple days. :)
 
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JNickel101 said:
Right....so you're saying its correct that the Earth was created in 7 days? Not 4.5 billion years?
Most christians believe the earth ws created in 7 days, about 6000 years ago.
They completely discount carbon dating, which is the science communities main source for aging the planet.
 
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