Build HP30 or HP44

[Mudskipper]

Thanks alot!

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

WHAT?!!!

Opie learned how to resize pics?!!!

Proof positive kids...

That knowledge is power!

 

[XJ_ranger]

WHAT?!!!

Opie learned how to resize pics?!!!

Proof positive kids...

That knowledge is power!

thoes are thumbnails - full size are available

 

[Goatman]

There is something to be said for everything, but the average backyard mech CANNOT just fab up brackets and weld em on. This cost cannot be discounted, as it is the BIGGEST factor in the buildup. When someone will post up the cost of a D44 housing from Clayton, and its super affordable, it makes sense. The ONLY reason Id build a D44 is if I was going to use leafs (and I considered this). This would be a simple, affordable cost effective frontend. Otherwise, BS.................. BTW the entry into a bracket set is 400, then this has to be welded on at correct angles and burned in properly (I dont yet trust myself in this department, hence my choice. I dont neccessarily believe it is the correct choice for everyone, but when your fab skills are such that you can build brackets, weld an upper mount to the cast center, or even weld on the RE bracket set, then go for it. 99 out of 100 members here cannot)

OK, so add in the cost of the brackets and somebody welding them on for you. Now the D44 isn't cheaper, but you have roughly the same cost for building the D44 or the D30. Still no comparison. And in my previous post I didn't mention that with the D44 you can easily get hy-steer, which you can't do with the D30 unless you spend even more for aftermarket knuckles.

So, you wouldn't build a D44. Fine, but a whole bunch of us here on this forum have built them, and are running them successfully. And, you'd be surprised to see how many did all the fab work themselves.

The thing that happens, or happened, to most of us is that we already have put gears and a locker in the D30 before we get to the point of wanting to run a bigger axle, so then it can be more economical to build a strong D30 and just live with it. Or, just sell the D30 to someone and use the money towards the D44.

I run a D44, that I narrowed and built myself. Before that I had a D30 with the Warn 5 on 5.5 hub kit and Warn inner axles. I had as much in the D30 as I spent on the D44, plus I got CTM's and hy-steer. I had OTK steering on the D30, but the hy-steer is still much higher.

 

[Goatman]

This post is a nightmare. I'm sorry I started this debaucle. I was just looking at the cost diffrence of building either of the axles. Also if they will handle my 36's. I have a set of 79 F250 axles HP44 & FF60 that I got for free. My 87 has the factory HP30 & D44 and I'm just trying to figure out which way to go.Sorry guys

Hey, don't worry about it. It's normal for a few folks to have different viewpoints. Just read and decide for yourself what makes the most sense.

You have a couple of choices on how to go with the axle combinations you have. You can just stick those axles in full width, get some new 8 lug rims, and run it. If you want hy-steer and better diff clearance in the back, get some Chevy D44 knuckles and do hy-steer, then get some alloy shafts for your rear D44 with the 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern, and have your drums drilled to 5 on 5.5.

 

[jslamerman]

get some alloy shafts for your rear D44 with the 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern, and have your drums drilled to 5 on 5.5.

I at least did do that!! Spacers are like 100, the Superior shaft kit was 300 shipped, and thats for the 4340 versions.

 

[BIGWOODY]

To those saying just throw a D60 under it, it ain't cheap. I put an HP60 in my MJ and by the time I built the axle,did some heavy duty fabbing to convert it to 5 lug, steering, hydro-assit, geared, locked, etc... I had close to $4500 in it ...and that was a junkyard axle I paid $700 for. the 44 is fine for what "MOST" XJ/MJ's are built for and a hellva a lot cheaper to build.

 

[cracker]

To those saying just throw a D60 under it, it ain't cheap. I put an HP60 in my MJ and by the time I built the axle,did some heavy duty fabbing to convert it to 5 lug, steering, hydro-assit, geared, locked, etc... I had close to $4500 in it ...and that was a junkyard axle I paid $700 for. the 44 is fine for what "MOST" XJ/MJ's are built for and a hellva a lot cheaper to build.

Remember this: It was a thread I had 6 months ago and you said this.

Holy cow that's a lot of cabbage to throw at a 44....

Its only cabbage! Grow more!

why not just build the real BEEF for the same cabbage?

I am not convinced a 60 or a 9" is necessary for 35s (37s at the most). I am hoping to have this thing for a while and a 44 should be all that I need.

true

You're kidding...right?

When's the last time you priced custom D60 axle stuff? How about $1000 just for a junkyard front HPD60 (if you can even find one), then add the gears, locker and other good parts to it. It's over $1000 just to change it to 5 on 5.5.

Sorry, I'm just not into criticizing people for deciding to spend good money on good parts. I've never meet anyone who later on regretted spending money on a custom axle build, even if they spent a ton.

Just speaking from my own experience, I spent a ton on building a 44, chromos,CTMs,ARB,hi-steer, hydro-assit etc.... I wasn't happy with it, so I'm at least one person you've heard of. I built my 60 for the same money I put in my 44, that was with 35 spline outters, dedenbear knuckles,hydro,hysteer,BTF diff cover, and 5x5 1/2 conversion. Lots of my parts were made custom on a buddies CNC machine. Your right, I couldn't pick up a catalog order stuff and build it cheaper, I shopped around and found deals. All this is a moot point if he's staying with 35's or so,but if he ever wanted to go bigger, the 60 would already be there. Not trying to ruffle feathers, just offering options...
To answer your question about the last time I priced custom 60 parts....yesterday, I'm building on now for a buddies TJ...

BigWoody, did you have a change of heart? You gave me shi!t about my 44 and now you are endorsing it

 

[Jeepin Jason]

To those saying just throw a D60 under it, it ain't cheap. I put an HP60 in my MJ and by the time I built the axle,did some heavy duty fabbing to convert it to 5 lug, steering, hydro-assit, geared, locked, etc... I had close to $4500 in it ...

That's about what it would cost the average fabricationally-challenged Jeeper to have a nice D44 "professionally" built.

There are tons of folks (mostly TJ'ers, and they've got LPD30's) running 35's on D30's with few problems, it just depends on how and where you wheel. We run 35's on both our rigs, with lockers, on LPD30's, and have had very good luck with the setups. We don't play as hard as most of the westcoast crew out in Cali and AZ though.

Since a D44 uses the same 297/760 joints as a D44 does, I personally don't think you're gaining much in the "no breakage" area overa D30 unless you run alloys and HD u-joints in a D44.

 

[ECKSJAY]

That's about what it would cost the average fabricationally-challenged Jeeper to have a nice D44 "professionally" built.

No kidding. I'm sitting here looking at that price thinking of a good start on a CRD50R.

 

[jslamerman]

To everyone that wants top do this in thier shop, go for it. I know ALOT of people are going to be critical with me for this suggestion, but I feel an affordable alternative to anyone running up to a 39" tire is a custom fabricated Toyota housing from Sky or Front Range offroad. I thik youd have less than 3500 in it COMPLETE with steering, and I defy you to kill it in a XJ or MJ. Lets see (and boy I wish this was my budget)
Diamond housing from Sky, built drivers drop, +6(61" wide WMS to WMS)-$800
Bracket kit(-over axle truss because you can weld to the fabricated housing) $300
Hi-steer kit from Marlin $400-pitman arm, be like $325, and Id use the FJ80 tie rod ends due to strength, and hi-misalignment, and long term durability (actually Id mod a stock pitman arm at a machine shop to accept another)
stock 4.10 electric locking hi-pinion third from inchworm-$800
Bobby long +6 4340 30 spline inner shafts, and 30 spline 300m/4340 birfs-$635+$100 for longer inners
Thats roughly 3100, with a few xtra bucks thrown in for the pitman arm reaming, + core Toy front axle for the outer knuckles/hubs/lockouts/brakes (should be $100-$150), maybe $250 xtra for some v6 4 piston calipers and vented rotors, It would be like 3500 for a nearly indestructable fronted, with the same ground clearance, similar weight (slighly more), e locker, hi-steer, and killer shafts that rival if not best 4340 shafts and CTMs (I dont think the 297x style 4340 shaft ears can take what the CV style stuff can, these are reputedly stronger than stock D60 35 spline stuff, you can see this by research). It would be cool, just not cheap. (I wouldve if I had the budget, but instead spent like 1500 beefing/gearing/locking the D30 to its best, oh well.........) The only possible weak spot is the gear size, but lots of people have made 4.88s work VERY well, so long as they are set up properly, which is ESPECIALLY key in Toyota thirds, and can make for a very strong gearset, and lots have gone the 5.29 route, but bigger than 38s prove to be thier demise.

 

[CRASH]

I don't think it's a good idea to recommend 30 spline shafts of ANY material currently known to someone wanting to run 37's or larger. THEY WILL NOT HOLD UP IN DEEP ROCKS.

Other than that, the Toy stuff is great, good ground clearance, etc, and would work well up to 37's.

 

[jslamerman]

I don't think it's a good idea to recommend 30 spline shafts of ANY material currently known to someone wanting to run 37's or larger. THEY WILL NOT HOLD UP IN DEEP ROCKS.

Other than that, the Toy stuff is great, good ground clearance, etc, and would work well up to 37's.

Only in 297 ujoint stuff. If you look around 37s are NOTHING for these boys that go 30 spline 4340/300M Bobby long shafts. The shafts are VERY durable, and lots of guys are running 38s succesfully, some 39s (IROKS mostly). I dont know if its just top quality stuff, a better pressure angle on Toyota stuff or what (Im no engineer), just hard use proves that 37s are the opening tire size for those babys.

 

[jslamerman]

http://www.toyotasuperaxles.com/graph.html

 

[BrettM]

I don't think it's a good idea to recommend 30 spline shafts of ANY material currently known to someone wanting to run 37's or larger. THEY WILL NOT HOLD UP IN DEEP ROCKS.

Other than that, the Toy stuff is great, good ground clearance, etc, and would work well up to 37's.

there are a handful of guys running 39 and 42" Iroks on those 30 spline Longs, even down in those crazy AZ rocks. Has anyone (richard?) broke a 30 spline alloy (not yukon) D44 inner?

though yes, personally 37s is the biggest I would go with that Toy setup if JV or AZ rocks were frequented. bigger than that and start thinking about a 35 spline Hi9/60 as a dream axle, or better yet with the new crazy Sunray outers.

 

[BrettM]

http://www.toyotasuperaxles.com/graph.html

that graph shows the 30 spline Longs to be almost (8200 vs 8500) as strong as a STOCK D60 shaft. I think there is an assumption in this topic that if you're going to build a custom 60 or hybrid with 60 outers that you're going to use alloy shaft/joint in it. The new D60 birfs Bobby Long is having made could not be broke by his machine, all the way to around 20,000ft/lbs if memory serves.

Last I read, Bobby still has not tested D44 Superiors and CTMs on his machine.

 

[CRASH]

Only in 297 ujoint stuff. If you look around 37s are NOTHING for these boys that go 30 spline 4340/300M Bobby long shafts. The shafts are VERY durable, and lots of guys are running 38s succesfully, some 39s (IROKS mostly). I dont know if its just top quality stuff, a better pressure angle on Toyota stuff or what (Im no engineer), just hard use proves that 37s are the opening tire size for those babys.

Pressure angle is the same.

Two things about adapting Toyota info to XJ's:

We are generally heavier (I'm 4,500 or so in JV trim, and over 5,000 in camping mode)

We have about TWICE the torque of a 22RE, more if you run a well built stroker.

About breaking 30 spline inners, everyone I run with runs 19 spline outers, which tend to be the weak link. Actually, we all know the hub is the weak link in a alloy/CTM front end!

 

[XJ_ranger]

We have about TWICE the torque of a 22RE, more if you run a well built stroker.

thats what my thoughts were - all 4 hampsters under the toyota hood cant compare to the 4.0

 

[BrettM]

thats what my thoughts were - all 4 hampsters under the toyota hood cant compare to the 4.0

I see your point, but don't forget 200:1 gearing.

 

[jslamerman]

Dont know about wieght, but I think a trail loaded Toy is definitely heavier, not by much, but some. That "hamster factory" is the freakin heaviest 4 cyl gas motor out there. All the Toy trail rigs are definitely pushin 5K, some more. The gearing Toy guys have is sick(dual cases, 5.0 to 1 gears, some times BOTH!!), so torque applied to axles is going to nudge the Toyota way. If you are going to examine the chart completely , the twist that the Long stuff will take is incredible at about the same ft. lbs value, the D60 shaft WILL snap sooner than the Long stuff. I actually picked the MJ I am building because of its relative light wieght compared to any other full bodied trail rig to start with (plus nice engine/tranny combo). You know, its possible to adapt toy stuff to the AX-15, after all its an r150/r151 Toyota tranny in disguise!! (different length input shaft, same bell to tranny pattern, and different tail housing obviously)