Build HP30 or HP44
- Thread starter Mudskipper
- Start date
- Location
- Bakersfield, CA
There is some decent info in this thread, but also a bunch of bullsh!t. Nothing wrong with building up a D30, unless you already have a D44, then the D30 is a waste of money since you'll spend less money building up the D44 and you'll end up with a much stronger axle.
Whoever said that a LP44 is the same strength as a HP30 better read more on the Internet....there is a difference, even if it's not huge.
Whoever said that it's a waste to build a D44 since it's not much stronger than a D30, so you might as well just build a D60, needs to get a better sense of reality (and quit repeating what you read on POR
). D60's are heavy, they have less ground clearance, and they are hard to fit under the front of an XJ. So, unless you'll have a real big lift and will run real big tires, and are willing to deal with the fitment issues, the D60 might not make sense. Nothing wrong with a D60 if real big is your goal, but you have to deal with making it five lug unless you also go 8 lug in the back.
The hybrid 9"/D60 is the ultimate way to go, but it is much more expensive than just building a good D44, and you have to deal with making it five lug. This is the way I would like to go, and would have gone if I could when I built my D44, but I tried and the parts just weren't available yet when I did it. The CTM's also came out right when I was building mine, so that became a very good option over Spicer D60 stuff and all the extra weight. I still like to go fast with mine, so the weight is an issue.
It's about $2000 to build a D44 with a Detroit, chromo shafts, and CTM's, assuming you narrow it yourself and build your own brackets. That's less than building a D30 with a hub kit or 30 spline outers. So, assuming that the D30 is built with 30 spline shafts, and both have chromo shafts, the D44 R & P is stronger, carrier is stronger, the housing is stronger (plenty of bent D30 housings with 35" tires and hard use), the knuckles are stronger, bearings/spindles are stronger, and it has bigger brakes. So, compared to building a D44 from scratch or building a D30 from scratch, it's a no brainer to spend less money and get a stronger axle with the D44. Now, if you're going to build the D44, you have to do the chromo axles, or your axle yokes and u-joints are still the weak point and would be the same as on a D30 with the bigger axle u-joints.
Whoever said that a LP44 is the same strength as a HP30 better read more on the Internet....there is a difference, even if it's not huge.
Whoever said that it's a waste to build a D44 since it's not much stronger than a D30, so you might as well just build a D60, needs to get a better sense of reality (and quit repeating what you read on POR
). D60's are heavy, they have less ground clearance, and they are hard to fit under the front of an XJ. So, unless you'll have a real big lift and will run real big tires, and are willing to deal with the fitment issues, the D60 might not make sense. Nothing wrong with a D60 if real big is your goal, but you have to deal with making it five lug unless you also go 8 lug in the back.The hybrid 9"/D60 is the ultimate way to go, but it is much more expensive than just building a good D44, and you have to deal with making it five lug. This is the way I would like to go, and would have gone if I could when I built my D44, but I tried and the parts just weren't available yet when I did it. The CTM's also came out right when I was building mine, so that became a very good option over Spicer D60 stuff and all the extra weight. I still like to go fast with mine, so the weight is an issue.
It's about $2000 to build a D44 with a Detroit, chromo shafts, and CTM's, assuming you narrow it yourself and build your own brackets. That's less than building a D30 with a hub kit or 30 spline outers. So, assuming that the D30 is built with 30 spline shafts, and both have chromo shafts, the D44 R & P is stronger, carrier is stronger, the housing is stronger (plenty of bent D30 housings with 35" tires and hard use), the knuckles are stronger, bearings/spindles are stronger, and it has bigger brakes. So, compared to building a D44 from scratch or building a D30 from scratch, it's a no brainer to spend less money and get a stronger axle with the D44. Now, if you're going to build the D44, you have to do the chromo axles, or your axle yokes and u-joints are still the weak point and would be the same as on a D30 with the bigger axle u-joints.
X Factor
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Southeast, Mi
Capt. Nemo said:
ummm yeah!!
and the extra cost for the more HP it will take to move that pig.
ECKSJAY
Water is dirty
- Location
- Covington, WA
X Factor said:
Really?
sintax
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Corona, CA
ECKSJAY said:
yea, if you dont have a blown big block you have a max speed of like 30mph. 300 lbs is about the equalivent of a full tank of gas (145 lbs) camping gear (30 lbs), Ice chest full of beer (40-45 lbs) and trail spares (enter random weight here) But yea, you'll need way more HP.
DaffyXJ
NAXJA Member #929
- Location
- southern MD
Goatman said:There is some decent info in this thread, but also a bunch of bullsh!t. Nothing wrong with building up a D30, unless you already have a D44, then the D30 is a waste of money since you'll spend less money building up the D44 and you'll end up with a much stronger axle.
Whoever said that a LP44 is the same strength as a HP30 better read more on the Internet....there is a difference, even if it's not huge.
Whoever said that it's a waste to build a D44 since it's not much stronger than a D30, so you might as well just build a D60, needs to get a better sense of reality (and quit repeating what you read on POR
The hybrid 9"/D60 is the ultimate way to go, but it is much more expensive than just building a good D44, and you have to deal with making it five lug. This is the way I would like to go, and would have gone if I could when I built my D44, but I tried and the parts just weren't available yet when I did it. The CTM's also came out right when I was building mine, so that became a very good option over Spicer D60 stuff and all the extra weight. I still like to go fast with mine, so the weight is an issue.
It's about $2000 to build a D44 with a Detroit, chromo shafts, and CTM's, assuming you narrow it yourself and build your own brackets. That's less than building a D30 with a hub kit or 30 spline outers. So, assuming that the D30 is built with 30 spline shafts, and both have chromo shafts, the D44 R & P is stronger, carrier is stronger, the housing is stronger (plenty of bent D30 housings with 35" tires and hard use), the knuckles are stronger, bearings/spindles are stronger, and it has bigger brakes. So, compared to building a D44 from scratch or building a D30 from scratch, it's a no brainer to spend less money and get a stronger axle with the D44. Now, if you're going to build the D44, you have to do the chromo axles, or your axle yokes and u-joints are still the weak point and would be the same as on a D30 with the bigger axle u-joints.
I like this reply, especially the B.S. part. In a nut shell, this is the answer. Nice job!
OT
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Jensen, UT
Sooooo, if I run a 60, I can never fill my tank full unless I get the supercharger?sintax said:
What if I just run the 85 octane gas.
That's lighter isn't it?
ECKSJAY
Water is dirty
- Location
- Covington, WA
Okie Terry said:
Correct. Load the cooler with light beer as well.
DaffyXJ
NAXJA Member #929
- Location
- southern MD
Uhhh, Find a girl that weighs less???rupert said:
:kissyou:
jslamerman
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- maine
There is something to be said for everything, but the average backyard mech CANNOT just fab up brackets and weld em on. This cost cannot be discounted, as it is the BIGGEST factor in the buildup. When someone will post up the cost of a D44 housing from Clayton, and its super affordable, it makes sense. The ONLY reason Id build a D44 is if I was going to use leafs (and I considered this). This would be a simple, affordable cost effective frontend. Otherwise, BS.................. BTW the entry into a bracket set is 400, then this has to be welded on at correct angles and burned in properly (I dont yet trust myself in this department, hence my choice. I dont neccessarily believe it is the correct choice for everyone, but when your fab skills are such that you can build brackets, weld an upper mount to the cast center, or even weld on the RE bracket set, then go for it. 99 out of 100 members here cannot)
- Location
- Port Orchard, WA
jslamerman said:
twice now i have written my responce, and hit the back button...
it was a length description of the simplicity of brackets with pictures, and i give up - but leave you with this -
if a webwheeler like me can do it, it obivously doesnt take much...
Ramsey
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Shreveport, LA
drive through muddy puddles?
jslamerman
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- maine
XJ_ranger said:
Maybe I am second guessing myself too much(probably am), but Ive ripped many a stock bracket off of my TJ rear and several wrap bars Ive welded on SOA rears on leaf springs, so I tend to think this is an important part of the equation.
DaffyXJ
NAXJA Member #929
- Location
- southern MD
Nothing welded to the cast center here. As to the 99 out of a hundred, I tend to disagree. I've been an 
member for just under 2 years, bought my XJ just under three years ago, Hit this site before I modified it the first time and pretty much followed most of the advice I have received so far from the participants here.
Don't understand why you don't agree with the recommendation that if he has access to a D-44 that he upgrade the D-44 front as opposed to the D-30? (check the first post again, he said he has both)
member for just under 2 years, bought my XJ just under three years ago, Hit this site before I modified it the first time and pretty much followed most of the advice I have received so far from the participants here. Don't understand why you don't agree with the recommendation that if he has access to a D-44 that he upgrade the D-44 front as opposed to the D-30? (check the first post again, he said he has both)
OT
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Jensen, UT
Wheeled it yet?XJ_ranger said:
Come to Winterfest and we'll see if your welding is "burned in" properly.
Gil BullyKatz
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- 2003UB313 Planet ERIS
DaffyXJ said:
is that BrettM's hydro-assist for under $100 mod?
nice and clean 44 swap
- Location
- Port Orchard, WA
Okie Terry said:Wheeled it yet?
Come to Winterfest and we'll see if your welding is "burned in" properly.
we'll make sure LBEXJ has his welder again...
oooooooooooooook - one more shot at trying the bracket creation process with pics - if i fawk myself over again - i will not log into
till finals are over - that is 2 weeks of no ...
Mudskipper
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Fitchburg , MA
This post is a nightmare. I'm sorry I started this debaucle. I was just looking at the cost diffrence of building either of the axles. Also if they will handle my 36's. I have a set of 79 F250 axles HP44 & FF60 that I got for free. My 87 has the factory HP30 & D44 and I'm just trying to figure out which way to go.Sorry guys
- Location
- Port Orchard, WA
step 1 - first thing to do before you get overzellous and decide to pull stuff apart - is measure your driveshaft angle with the d30 with IDEAL pinion angle - this will be close enough that when you set up your brackets to be flat, if you make the pinion anlge this - your pinion angle and castor will be good (provided you have decided to turn the knuckles)
step 2 - go to the local General Electric industrial sections scrap metal dumpster and "relieve" them of their excess metal that looks to be something you might need
step 3 - remove d30, set next to d44, look back and forth for a while, then decide to make some cardboard mock ups of the material that is acutal size of the metal that you have "aquired". use measurements off d30 as a starting point, unless you are going with a custom suspention.
Step 4 - buy: chop saw, die grinder, angle grinder, jig saw, assortment of drill bits and a corded drill
Step 5 - cut up metal and shape with die and angle grinders:
step 6 - tack weld into place with borrowed 110v flux welder:
*note - i did use the JKS OAB trackbar bracket - and it is one of the best pieces of metal on there. i cut that down too though -
-->
Step 7 - take the whole assembly to your local machinest friend and kindly ask him to burn your junk together with his 220v stick machine.
Step 8 - take machinest friend to lunch. enjoy lunch.
step 9 - lay down next to d30 and take the obligatory "Look! the 44 is bigger!" picture
step 10 - throw it under the heep and check trackbar and steering angles and make sure that your luck guess didnt work out too terrible -
Step 11 - assemble the axle and measure for steering and trackbar -
Step 12 - buy some DOM, HREW, or solid stock and "make" the linkage. i went with soild stock and drilled it out on the lathe and taped it to my rod end 7/8" x 14 threads.
I think the hardest part was the steering... without the lathe that my friend had, i would have been SOL... but i suppose i could have put more thought into it and gotten some DOM with an ID of some weldable bungs and gone that route...
thank freeken god that i didnt hit "back" again...
here is a link to all my pics..
http://www.opiebennett.com/frontaxlepicturesindex.htm
YMMV!
step 2 - go to the local General Electric industrial sections scrap metal dumpster and "relieve" them of their excess metal that looks to be something you might need
step 3 - remove d30, set next to d44, look back and forth for a while, then decide to make some cardboard mock ups of the material that is acutal size of the metal that you have "aquired". use measurements off d30 as a starting point, unless you are going with a custom suspention.
Step 4 - buy: chop saw, die grinder, angle grinder, jig saw, assortment of drill bits and a corded drill
Step 5 - cut up metal and shape with die and angle grinders:
step 6 - tack weld into place with borrowed 110v flux welder:
*note - i did use the JKS OAB trackbar bracket - and it is one of the best pieces of metal on there. i cut that down too though -
Step 7 - take the whole assembly to your local machinest friend and kindly ask him to burn your junk together with his 220v stick machine.
Step 8 - take machinest friend to lunch. enjoy lunch.
step 9 - lay down next to d30 and take the obligatory "Look! the 44 is bigger!" picture
step 10 - throw it under the heep and check trackbar and steering angles and make sure that your luck guess didnt work out too terrible -
Step 11 - assemble the axle and measure for steering and trackbar -
Step 12 - buy some DOM, HREW, or solid stock and "make" the linkage. i went with soild stock and drilled it out on the lathe and taped it to my rod end 7/8" x 14 threads.
I think the hardest part was the steering... without the lathe that my friend had, i would have been SOL... but i suppose i could have put more thought into it and gotten some DOM with an ID of some weldable bungs and gone that route...
thank freeken god that i didnt hit "back" again...
here is a link to all my pics..
http://www.opiebennett.com/frontaxlepicturesindex.htm
YMMV!
