Buggy building on a budget

[LBEXJ]

Yes

Thanks One Ton ... let me re-phrase ... Does the weight of the vehicle contribute more or less to drivetrain breakage than the size/weight of the tires?

I'm sure it has a lot of bearing on how beefy a driveline needs to be. Where I'm going with this question is ... can considerable savings be had in building a driveline if a chassis could be built very light but strong? There is a lot of weight in an XJ/MJ chassis that's probably not necessary in a Buggy.

I know absolutely nothing about Buggy's. But it seems that most are built with very heavy axles. Are these really necessary for a relatively light tube chassis? Can some actually hinder their performance because the axles themselve are so heavy?

Les

 

[Ramsey]

heavy axles + light body= very low cog

maybe, i dont know a thing either

 

[FarmerMatt]

That is exactly where that POS belongs...

 

[Goatman]

Thanks One Ton ... let me re-phrase ... Does the weight of the vehicle contribute more or less to drivetrain breakage than the size/weight of the tires?

I'm sure it has a lot of bearing on how beefy a driveline needs to be. Where I'm going with this question is ... can considerable savings be had in building a driveline if a chassis could be built very light but strong? There is a lot of weight in an XJ/MJ chassis that's probably not necessary in a Buggy.

I know absolutely nothing about Buggy's. But it seems that most are built with very heavy axles. Are these really necessary for a relatively light tube chassis? Can some actually hinder their performance because the axles themselve are so heavy?

Les

Axle breakage happens from a number of situations.....most of the time it's not just spinning the tires, where vehicle weight would make a big difference. A high percentage of axle breakage occurs when the tires get in some sort of bind, like in an undercut, down in a big hole, wedged between a couple of rocks, or bouncing on a big ledge. The resistance forces applied directly to the tire is what contributes most to the breakage, and the weight of the rig is secondary.

So, does vehicle weight make a difference in axle breakage? Yes it does, but not to the degree that you would think it does. Many times an axle could break regardless of the weight of the rig.

 

[LBEXJ]

Axle breakage happens from a number of situations.....most of the time it's not just spinning the tires, where vehicle weight would make a big difference. A high percentage of axle breakage occurs when the tires get in some sort of bind, like in an undercut, down in a big hole, wedged between a couple of rocks, or bouncing on a big ledge. The resistance forces applied directly to the tire is what contributes most to the breakage, and the weight of the rig is secondary.

So, does vehicle weight make a difference in axle breakage? Yes it does, but not to the degree that you would think it does. Many times an axle could break regardless of the weight of the rig.

Thanks Goat ... I appreciate the info. Most of us (me included) that read and try to learn from these threads do not have enough "real" experience to completely understand why some things are built the way they are. I guess I never outgrew the "why syndrome". Thanks again ...

Les

 

[tealcherokee]

asking "why?" is always a good thing..... when you dont know something, asking why will clear it up, even if you do know somthing, and someone is talking out their a$$, instead of screaming bull$hit, just ask them why, see what they say, if they say anything.....

 

[4ward]

You've got to remember also that horsepower has a huge roll in drivetrain breakage. A Sammi's birf is half the size of a toy birf, but they keep their birfs together because they only have 36 lil ponies under the hood.

So, Richard- how much are you selling that mj for??? :wave:

Be one with the tube :lecture:

 

[Goatman]

You've got to remember also that horsepower has a huge roll in drivetrain breakage. A Sammi's birf is half the size of a toy birf, but they keep their birfs together because they only have 36 lil ponies under the hood.

So, Richard- how much are you selling that mj for??? :wave:

Be one with the tube :lecture:

Very true. Horsepower and gearing also are big contributors to component breakage. When the applied torque is more than the torque capacity of the part, something has to give. If the tire can spin, fine, but if it can't then something is going to break. Out on the trail we constantly watch for what we call wedgies....when the tire is bound and has little chance of turning.

I have two MJ's, one is real nice, a SB 2wd 4.0 auto, which I would hate to cut up. I'd like to just keep it as a driver, but if I ever built another rig I wouldn't need it as a driver. The other one is a junker, SB 4 sp 4 cyl with a blown headgasket. If I decided to build the junker, I'd sell the nice one to get money for the project. I have a spare 4.0, and an AW4 and 231. What's tempting is Garry would sell me the 4.0/999/Atlas out of his junked TJ at a good price. That would be a great combo for a quasi-buggy project, except for having to deal with smogging it. In a pure buggy, it would be perfect.

One thing for sure. I'm really more interested in building a chopped down MJ than I am in building a full out buggy. Some good points have been made here, and I understand the logic of going the full buggy route, but that's not what I want. Whatever I have, it has to be legal to drive on the street. We go too many places where we have to travel on roads to get to good trails, and my tow rig has the camper on it, so I won't be towing a rig to a trailhead. That's an issue of the full buggy concept that I haven't been able to get past.

 

[davidt]

Full on buggies are cool, but truggies are where the action is really at in my opinion. I love being able to close up my truck in the winter time and get the heat going, I also like being able to have a good windshield with wipers. My vote is keep the good running mj and start with that. It is always nice to start with something that you know works well, plus you don't have to mess with wiring and mounting the engine (a big task for anyone). Why go with the 999 when you can have the highly reliable and easy to wire (with bretts shifter). Just a thought...

 

[Roxtar]

Thanks One Ton ... let me re-phrase ... Does the weight of the vehicle contribute more or less to drivetrain breakage than the size/weight of the tires?
Les

I'd have to say it's more dependant on the weight of the right foot.

 

[LBEXJ]

I'd have to say it's more dependant on the weight of the right foot.

I don't think that having a scrawny old right foot has kept me from breaking ... maybe it's just not scrawny enough.

Les

 

[Gary E]

I dunno if this it totally off your path here but I remember reading a pirate thread on the budget wheeler and the consensus was a military GMC with the 60 and 14 bolt w/ a detroit.

I think I am done with my xj, I think I will just keep repairing stuff as it breaks and keep it decent for the sieras and what not, the hammers and BOTW has really beat that poor thing to snot.

I want a buggy for the harder stuff I keep coming up with plans but each path gets killed by something or another. Pre made frame buggy is too expensive, but would be nice. Narrowing axles and installing good stuff is too much time and money. Making my own frame would be too much time and steel is not cheap.

Running a military gmc truck frame with minimal sheet metal and some tube work is more likely the route I would go. probably really hokey like, full width welded front v8 and an auto. maybe just 37s so I could just hammer down and throttle it more.

Any way you approach it, its all cubic dollars and time. Matt has it figured out pretty good with the JD and CAT, I imagine he would of rather ditched the xj unibody and done bigger axles but he got a great deal on the parts and its tough to want to rework all the motor mounts, dash, wiring harness etc

Gosh sorry about all the rambling

Its just a huge project any way you look at it.

I wimped out and went a diffrent path

I just picked up a 53 f-100 with a great body (and little else) I have a free volare IFS front end lined up. I plan on a $800 mark vii donor car for the 5.0, aod and rearend. The motor will be stock I plan on making a nice driver, I will do the paint and body. I plan on having right around 5k into it. Oh and you will definatly like the color I have picked for it I am positive on the Yellow but want flames, hmm maybe orange flames

 

[Jes]

Running a military gmc truck frame with minimal sheet metal and some tube work is more likely the route I would go. probably really hokey like, full width welded front v8 and an auto. maybe just 37s so I could just hammer down and throttle it more.

Start growing that mullett.

 

[Goatman]

Gary, here's a couple of pics of a friend who made a buggy from a fullsize Bronco. Motor, trans and t-case are stock, and he used the fullwidth front HPD44 and rear 9", but I think he used a Currie HP9 center section.

Pics are on Fistfull of Dollars in Parker.

 

[Jes]

That line is fun!

 

[Gary E]

Start growing that mullett.

:laugh3: You know it Ya all know I could never do it. I would get stuck right on the gmc/bowtie thing

That is a good looking buggy Richard, I am a big fan of the donor concept, much cheaper.

I was pretty interested in the whole dodge late model 60 stuff it would pretty much bolt into my front suspension run hummer rims with stock BS (no locking hubs to stick out) I am the last CAD fan, but the 30 spline inners, weight and the cost (not much cheaper than a real 60) shot that one down pretty much.

I think I will just get this and drive over anything in the way and pull down the mountain with the big old winch if it got in the way.
big ole ford

 

[Goatman]

I think I will just get this and drive over anything in the way and pull down the mountain with the big old winch if it got in the way.
big ole ford

Pismo tow truck.

 

[BrettM]

If I were to ever build a trailered buggy I would do a front wheel drive engine/transaxle (weld the transaxle diff) with the CV shafts running as drivelines to Toyota axles with 37s, tube chassis, links and airshocks. very cheap, very light, great visibility. the downsides of no high range and not much room for gear are compensated for in your current rig.

i like buggys like this:

more pics here: http://photobucket.com/albums/c99/TeenyCAR/Wheeling pics/?

 

[CRASH]

I find it funny that a guy that PAID SOMEONE to change his 44 balljoints because he didn't have time to do it himself is contemplating a buggy build.

We should see this rig on the trails in about 2015 or so.

 

[Goatman]

Hey, I paid for them to be done, and then wore them out in less than 6 months. The first and third time I did them myself.

Still.....you're probably right.