Bought a New Gun This Weekend

[Stumpalump]

"Probably more people in this country have been killed by .22 rimfire's than all other calibers combined"

Well Im convinced now....you know, that sounds like real scientific evidence right there!

More people have been killed by automobiles then firearms, should we start using them as weapons of self defense? Honestly, do you really believe all the garbage you read? That whole article is hokey at best. You can believe what you want Stump, its your choice and right to do so. I on the other hand dont believe that such a small caliber is an effective self deffense choice. Does such a small caliber have the potential to inflict injury to someone...of course. Is it the most effective to stop someone with the least amount of shots fired...not at all. I wouldnt want to trust my life to and rely on such a small caliber, but that is just me.

Read the source it's the FBI. Look at the refereces at the bottom. Have you never hear that .22 kill more people than any other caliber ? I didn't make this up and thought it would play well into the hand of the dude that wants a .22 for his wife. I said before I hate those large cannons for self defence for the percussion alone. A .22 in the hands of a confident chick will be more deadly than you nusing a broken eardrum.

 

[KarlVP]

Read the source it's the FBI. Look at the refereces at the bottom. Have you never hear that .22 kill more people than any other caliber ? I didn't make this up and thought it would play well into the hand of the dude that wants a .22 for his wife. I said before I hate those large cannons for self defence for the percussion alone. A .22 in the hands of a confident chick will be more deadly than you nusing a broken eardrum.

This is true, my wife can put a better 10 shot group in a FBI Q target at 7 yards way faster than I can do the same in a 357 snubby. Sadly, she's starting to outshoot me at 20 yards when we are matched with the same .22.

 

[sjd78]

Read the source it's the FBI. Look at the refereces at the bottom. Have you never hear that .22 kill more people than any other caliber ? I didn't make this up and thought it would play well into the hand of the dude that wants a .22 for his wife. I said before I hate those large cannons for self defence for the percussion alone. A .22 in the hands of a confident chick will be more deadly than you nusing a broken eardrum.

I dont care who the source was. Saying "probably" before any statement is the first thing that lets me know the source is taking a guess at what they are saying. Something you have to remember, stating the total numbers of deaths caused by one caliber does not necessarily mean its the best for self defense. But just some food for thought, Im sure the number of deaths caused by the .45 acp far surpass the .22, think about world war 2 alone! Besides, the article isnt stating that the .22 is an effective self deffense caliber it just gives all the criteria of what is considered incapacitating.

 

[KRAKER]

Man just click on this fuggers profile and click ignore.

 

[sjd78]

Man just click on this fuggers profile and click ignore.

Haha...Im really starting to consider this!

 

[KRAKER]

Do it, all he does is stir the pot.

 

[KarlVP]

I dont care who the source was. Saying "probably" before any statement is the first thing that lets me know the source is taking a guess at what they are saying. Something you have to remember, stating the total numbers of deaths caused by one caliber does not necessarily mean its the best for self defense. But just some food for thought, Im sure the number of deaths caused by the .45 acp far surpass the .22, think about world war 2 alone!

What caliber is the M-16? (The rifle that we here in the US Military use)

Woot!!! .223 remigton (parent case) measure an M-16 bullet vs a .22LR.

Just ribbing you. The above debate could go either way. More .22 caliber ammunition is sold than any other IN THE WORLD. This includes the AK-47 .762 which is the most produced assault rifle in the world.

You could say a "one shot stop" is a good thing. You could also say that good marksmanship is a good thing.

The fact stands if I ever have to shoot someone to defend myself or my family I am going to shoot them until they are either incapacitated or dead. I AM NOT going to shoot them once with a .45 and then check to see if they are about to defend themself.... then shoot again..... check.... shoot again.... check..... shoot again.... check.... shoot again. No, I am going to continue to pull the trigger till they are not moving.

God forbid the day come I have to use a weapon in defense of my family. But if that day comes, I have no personal debate about a one shot stop.

 

[goodburbon]

A .22 in the hands of a confident chick will be more deadly than you nusing a broken eardrum.

exaggeration much?

I have fired my weapons with no hearing protection before, magically my brain didn't ooze out of my ears. The only distracting percussion I have seen is when I am at the range and someone pulls out a .44 mag or .50. Then I am in my own world and hear : pop, pop, pop pop. pop pop. KABOOM, pop pop pop KABOOM. .38-.45 yeah I notice a difference between reports, but nothing like a big magnum.

A weapon intended for defense should be a DEFENSE caliber, .22 is NOT a defense caliber, and the ~100lb women I know who carry, carry .38 or .380. PPK style or Snubby revolver. Easily controlled by dainty hands. Putting a .22 in someones hands for "defense" is not an effective practical or reliable means of defense. I'm not saying that someone the size of mary kate and ashley olsen should carry around a .45, but a .32 would be sufficient.

 

[sjd78]

What caliber is the M-16? (The rifle that we here in the US Military use)

Woot!!! .223 remigton (parent case) measure an M-16 bullet vs a .22LR.

Just ribbing you. The above debate could go either way. More .22 caliber ammunition is sold than any other IN THE WORLD. This includes the AK-47 .762 which is the most produced assault rifle in the world.

You could say a "one shot stop" is a good thing. You could also say that good marksmanship is a good thing.

The fact stands if I ever have to shoot someone to defend myself or my family I am going to shoot them until they are either incapacitated or dead. I AM NOT going to shoot them once with a .45 and then check to see if they are about to defend themself.... then shoot again..... check.... shoot again.... check..... shoot again.... check.... shoot again. No, I am going to continue to pull the trigger till they are not moving.

God forbid the day come I have to use a weapon in defense of my family. But if that day comes, I have no personal debate about a one shot stop.

You are right, a .223 is a .22 caliber cartridge. Although it is not in the same category imo as a .22 rimfire. As you know the .223 has a bit more punch to it. You guys arent understanding what I am saying. Im not saying shoot...check...shoot....check. I am saying I want to be able to take someone out with as few shots as possible. What if you run out of rounds before your threat gets you because of the lack of stoping power in the caliber you chose??? What then? Wouldnt you rather stop someone with 1-3 shots and have the rest to "make sure" the threat was gone then to unload and hope for the best. Besides, I personally dont want to sling more lead then I have to, the more you shoot the more fatigued you get and the less accurate you are...which translates to sloppy shooting and your neighbors being at risk etc...

 

[sjd78]

exaggeration much?

I have fired my weapons with no hearing protection before, magically my brain didn't ooze out of my ears. The only distracting percussion I have seen is when I am at the range and someone pulls out a .44 mag or .50. Then I am in my own world and hear : pop, pop, pop pop. pop pop. KABOOM, pop pop pop KABOOM. .38-.45 yeah I notice a difference between reports, but nothing like a big magnum.

A weapon intended for defense should be a DEFENSE caliber, .22 is NOT a defense caliber, and the ~100lb women I know who carry, carry .38 or .380. PPK style or Snubby revolver. Easily controlled by dainty hands. Putting a .22 in someones hands for "defense" is not an effective practical or reliable means of defense. I'm not saying that someone the size of mary kate and ashley olsen should carry around a .45, but a .32 would be sufficient.

Thank you! Finally someone who I agree with. :cheers:

 

[Stumpalump]

This is true, my wife can put a better 10 shot group in a FBI Q target at 7 yards way faster than I can do the same in a 357 snubby. Sadly, she's starting to outshoot me at 20 yards when we are matched with the same .22.

Unload the gun and take her in the house and have her eyeball doorways and window from where she may be defending herself from. Then have her look for cover and see how comfortable she will be shooting around a corner or crouched down behind a dresser. have her lay on her back and any kind of real life position. I used to shoot from behind a railroad tie simulating a street curb. All this will add to her ability and confidence to use it if she has too. Gun ranges are great for learning the ropes but real life situations must also be practiced. I used to practice from the car and behind trees and stuff because that what you may wind up doing. Your wife will learn confidence in all positions plus you will get the oportunity to show her how running or ducking a certain way actuall winds up pointing the gun at herself or towards the kids room. Think real world and not the range after she gets comfortable with it. Let her kick your ass on the range and then take her home and let her play real senerio so she will be able to defend second nature.

 

[KarlVP]

Unload the gun and take her in the house and have her eyeball doorways and window from where she may be defending herself from. Then have her look for cover and see how comfortable she will be shooting around a corner or crouched down behind a dresser. have her lay on her back and any kind of real life position. I used to shoot from behind a railroad tie simulating a street curb. All this will add to her ability and confidence to use it if she has too. Gun ranges are great for learning the ropes but real life situations must also be practiced. I used to practice from the car and behind trees and stuff because that what you may wind up doing. Your wife will learn confidence in all positions plus you will get the oportunity to show her how running or ducking a certain way actuall winds up pointing the gun at herself or towards the kids room. Think real world and not the range after she gets comfortable with it. Let her kick your ass on the range and then take her home and let her play real senerio so she will be able to defend second nature.

In the situation with my wife and I. It is not about tactical offenseive shooting. The scenario is, get the family, go to the master bedroom, call the police and wait. (Home alarms are a great thing). The wife is not the person to take to a tactical pistol class. We have discussed home defense. The kids would be in the master bath, the wife at the front. If a crook wants my TV, let him have it. If a rapist wants my wife or my kids god forbid, she will defend herself and the family.

We have basically talked about defense around or behind cover. But it doesn't leave the house.

I'm not going to go gung ho and all about weapons with someone who isn't 100% with them in the first place. I will teach my family how to defend itself and that's it.

 

[Kejtar]

The only distracting percussion I have seen is when I am at the range and someone pulls out a .44 mag or .50. Then I am in my own world and hear : pop, pop, pop pop. pop pop. KABOOM, pop pop pop KABOOM. .38-.45 yeah I notice a difference between reports, but nothing like a big magnum.

I got a .44 mag for bears and a friend of mine owns S&W .500. Both are entertaining to shoot at the indoor range. .44 mag can distract. S&W .500 gets people startled to say the least. I've actually seen a retired Santa Ana cop (one of the first 2 black cops in Santa Ana) nearly hit the deck when the .500 went off in the booth next to his I don't see much practicality behind the .500 but it's sure fun to shoot. One word of caution: don't try to grin cause the concussion will feel like someone slapped you on the teeth.

A weapon intended for defense should be a DEFENSE caliber, .22 is NOT a defense caliber, and the ~100lb women I know who carry, carry .38 or .380. PPK style or Snubby revolver. Easily controlled by dainty hands. Putting a .22 in someones hands for "defense" is not an effective practical or reliable means of defense. I'm not saying that someone the size of mary kate and ashley olsen should carry around a .45, but a .32 would be sufficient.

I agree with you. Here's couple more thoughts about women and guns. In regards to jumping and closing eyes when shooting a gun cause it's too big of a caliber here's a recomendation: have her shoot at an outdoor range. Double ear protection (plugs and muffs over that) are a plus. Indoor range concussion as well as inadequate ear protection often turns women off to shooting.

 

[iluv83vettes]

I don't see much practicality behind the .500 but it's sure fun to shoot.

I don't know how the pigs are where you are but a .45 won't take them out. You need the .44 mag or the .500 or other mags to get through their skin where I hunt and you better hit them in the neck or the head because even a .44 mag won't make it to their heart (I've hit them there multiple times without them going down).

 

[Weasel]

Anywho, as for the discussion with Stumpy, if I ever have to shoot someone or multiple folks in a defensive situation, I'm not going for a "one shot stop" or whatever you folks in the movies see. I'm going to shoot them until they are no loger able to harm me. If you are an expert pistol shot, sure, you can aim for the head. But a center mass shot is much better to aim for in a defensive situation to the average weapon user. It doesn't matter what you shoot them with. .22 caliber holes are just as deadly as .45 caliber. Keep shooting them till they are unable to fight back, or dead.

Agree and I don't think you will find any professional marksmen that shoot for the head. They aim for center of mass. What is it three(or two?) in the center of mass, one in the head? You shoot to stop the threat and you should aim where the shot will be most effective.

As for .22 beings a deadly as a larger caliber, I would argue that. The wound channel and amount of tissue destoryed is significantly different. How many people get shot with larger guns in the chest and live due to missed vital organs? And you chance of being effective with a smaller cailber are just as good?? I think not. 22 rounds don't expand and very possible could have issues with clothing.

Once again your backwards logic makes no sense. First off most confrontations happen between 5-7 feet, not 20 feet. So in reality its not all that hard to hit a person at that distance no matter what caliber you are shooting.

If you can hit at 20 feet then 5-7 would be no problem. I feel you should start at 5-7 and then move to 20. Also alot of people miss at the 5-7 feet so...

Second, if you are a crappy shot and shoot into your neighbors house it isnt going to matter much what caliber you are shooting now is it? If somone is a crappy shot they shouldnt be carrying a handgun for defense.

True

Probably more people in this country have been killed by .22 rimfire's than all other calibers combined, which, based on body count, would compel the use of .22's for self-defense. Source:http://www.pointshooting.com/fbipart2.htm

Probably huh, well heck thats good enough for me. :dunce:

Read the source it's the FBI. Look at the refereces at the bottom. Have you never hear that .22 kill more people than any other caliber ?

Have you read your source. It says nothing except for a bullet to be deadly it needs penatration and lots of rapid blood loss. The beinging says this -

There is no valid, scientific analysis of actual shooting results in existence, or being pursued to date.

and also in the same article

Probably more people in this country have been killed by .22 rimfire's than all other calibers combined,

A .22 in the hands of a confident chick will be more deadly than you nusing a broken eardrum.

I wear protection when shooting but I have been in enclosed areas with gunfire and it does not break my concentration in the least.

 

[KarlVP]

I agree with you. Here's couple more thoughts about women and guns. In regards to jumping and closing eyes when shooting a gun cause it's too big of a caliber here's a recomendation: have her shoot at an outdoor range. Double ear protection (plugs and muffs over that) are a plus. Indoor range concussion as well as inadequate ear protection often turns women off to shooting.

What would you rather have? A wife alone huddled in the bedroom waiting for the police to arrive? Or a wife alone huddled in the bedroom waiting for the police to arrive with a .22 revolver?

The point is. I'm in the military. I get deployed. I'd rather my wife be ABLE to defend my family than be afraid to shoot the bad guys. We will be working on shotgun training next.

In my training with the family it is 100% defensive training. Run away and defend yourself. Call the police. Hopefully the bad guys either take my suff, and run away or continue to take my stuff till the police arrive. If they attack my family my wife is and will be there to confront the threat. One shot stop is not an issue. If the wife sees a weapon, discerns that it is an offender and not a police officer. Time to open fire.

In the area that I live, the phone communication makes it near impossible that my wife could shoot a police officer with the real time communication that is available. The cops would know about my wifes defensive situation, through the pre planned communication we have discussed. And the cops here are well infromed through real time communication channels. Not to mention the home alarm system that both calls the home number and the cell phone numbers for verification.

 

[Kejtar]

What would you rather have? A wife alone huddled in the bedroom waiting for the police to arrive? Or a wife alone huddled in the bedroom waiting for the police to arrive with a .22 revolver?

That is a tough one. I think I'd rather have her with a baseball bat then a .22 revolver. Hard to say. Anyways, I offered what I have ran into as something worth checking out and looking into: want to try it? Great. Don't want to try it? Oh well. I'm not affected either way.

The point is. I'm in the military. I get deployed. I'd rather my wife be ABLE to defend my family than be afraid to shoot the bad guys. We will be working on shotgun training next.

Wait... she's jumpy with a bigger caliber then .22 and you want to have her use a shotgun? I must have missed something here. But... if you want to try a shotgun, look into recoil reducing stocks. One to look at is Knoxx. It has springs built into the stock to absorb recoil and help control it.

 

[Stumpalump]

In that Knoxx vid did you see that slug go in the chamber and then he put his shoulder against the wall? Made a beliver out of me. As far as .22 killing a lot of people it's because they used to be common in street crime. You can find old data that shows a .25 Ravan killed a lot of people when they were popular. I got shot in the head with a Crossman air rifle and it sounded like a ball bat hit me. It actually knocked me down. I was only about 12 or 13. A .22 is still a hunk of lead flying at you real fast and it will cause disruption. I got hit on my right index finger with a .22 and must admitt I felt a little sting but really didn't know what happened till I saw the blood. Gave me a nasty gash and made my finger heal crocked but I was never incapacitate. Maybe you can teach your wife double or tripple tap at the range. Tell her to aim and try to put 3 rounds as on target as fast as she can control it. Might turn into a good habit that she will allways lobe a few round at her target. You may also want her to fire a round or two outside without muffs. A .22 revolver still has a harsh little crack to it and you need to tell her it will sound twice as loud inside. Most people get so used to a safe controlled shooting enviroment with muffs and eye protection. When they need their gun inside and that thing goes boom and the hot brass winds up boucing at their face or down their shirt they are off guard. When I kept autos around I'd have the wife shoot it so all the brass would bounce off a tree so she would be used to flying brass. I'd also explan that an occasional piece of hot unburned powder coud sting their eye or skin but it won't really hurt her. I say just keep shooting till they arn't moving. You don't want the legal hassle of a wheelchair bound criminal. You may get a liberal judge and jury that belive a drunk breaking into your house is not worth putting them in a wheel chair for life so you pay. Kill that faulker and be done.

 

[DrMoab]

I got shot in the head with a Crossman air rifle and it sounded like a ball bat hit me.

I bet it sounded hollow.

Too bad it wasn't something bigger....like a .45

 

[Kejtar]

I bet it sounded hollow.

OK, I will be sending you a cleaning bill for two flat panels. I was drinking tea as I read your comment.