Another shooting....

[MJ3000]

Please go read the statistics I posted a few pages back. Hell I'll repost em.

year 2010 drunk driving deaths... almost 33000. 210 of them were children.

Cancer deaths 2010: 569490

9/11/01 deaths... almost 3000 to terrorism. 42196 to traffic accidents of all kinds.

Cancer deaths 2001: 553400

Now we have the PATRIOT act and the TSA, have torn down our own freedoms and what we stood for and have spent not billions but trillions abroad fighting a shadowy enemy. Who won? How much of the looming national debt is due to this?

This past week:
now, 27 people and one monster are dead in Connecticut. The killer stole guns, then killed people, took the stolen guns to a gun free zone, and killed more people. And now people want to pass more laws that tread on the rights of many law abiding citizens to keep it from happening again. Very effective.

Two, plus one monster are dead in Clackamackas. It would be more, no one can say how many more, if it weren't for one responsible gun owner.

This year's cancer deaths: Probably around half a million based on previous years.


I will take those odds - even if it means criminals kill people, especially since they probably would find a way to anyways. Even if it means I become one of those statistics. Every time I get in the drivers seat of my jeep, I realize that I am three times more likely to die in a traffic accident as I am to die in a homicide - and due to the number of miles I drive every year (around 3x the national average) it's probably more like nine times higher! And I live in Massachusetts, where turn signals are a sign of weakness and tailgating is a way of life, so it may even be higher than that!

And either way I am approximately FORTY TWO TIMES more likely to die of cancer than I am to die in a homicide - of any kind, with any weapon. ~550k cancer deaths, 13k homicides, do the math.

Yet we let damn near anyone drive a car and everyone is screaming for gun control.

It does happen, and it indicates to me that the vast majority of people who would commit a crime with a gun are willing to steal one or get one via illicit means even if they are illegal. The only people whose rights and lives are affected by gun control are legal owners.

All flawed logic. All of those things you posted "statistics" about (except alcohol and the PA) were unavoidable. There is nothing we can do cancer patients till we find a cure. An unless your a fortune teller, you didn't see 9/11 coming. The PA and TSA stuff happened because people don't care about politics and just let politicians pass whatever they want. Happens all the time. And we're not going to make alcohol illegal because there is genuine uses for alcohol. Name one legitimate and necessary use for a gun other than killing. There is not one way that guns advance our civilization.

The bolded parts: "even if it means criminals kill people." Sure you take the odds everyday and obviously your alive so you beat the odds. What about the kids that died a couple days ago? They took the same odds you did, and guess what, they're not here anymore. Justify how that is right and makes any sense. We have the ability to get rid of, or at least curtail some of this killing, so why are we not doing it? Don't we care? And the short answer is: most people don't care. They'll cry for a few days and it'll be history in a week or two.

And the first part I bolded LITERALLY proves my point. You said it. You just don't know what you really said. Yes, he stole the weapons. If his law abiding, responsible mother would not have been able to legally purchase that assault rifle that put more than 10 bullets in a single small child, he would have been stuck with a simple rifle. What does more damage in a short amount of time? You have to really think about what you are saying...regulation is very effective.

 

[in4aride]

Name one legitimate and necessary use for a gun other than killing.

Man, Can I get what your skul is made out of, would make some really good armor for my sisters jeep, shit is THICK!

"Guns kill people, name another use."

No shit sherlock. Did you piece that together all by yourself? You are awesome.

The whole point is having the tools neccessary to protect yourself (dist of Columbia v heller 2008) and in the event of an overstepping government, to fight off the tyrant that be. (U.S. 2nd amendment.)

jesus. do i need to write it in crayon on construction paper or use puppets so you can get it?

 

[420BlackXJ]

Answer:
It is not guaranteed via the constitution.




Anyone besides me notice these two, while offering very entertaining posts, cannot for the life of them find any quotes in the constitution, 2nd, 14th, or SCOTUS opinions to give a good dissertation on why they are correct, or the rest of us are wrong. that's all I want.

You can't hide behind the outdated constitution forever.
You keep asking for scotus rulings on gun control. I DONT GIVE A **** ABOUT THE SCOTUS RULINGS. I am talking responsible gun ownership, of which you haven't a clue.

 

[DrMoab]

Outdated constitution? Seriously???

You sir are seriously a waste of breathable air.

 

[in4aride]

Responsible gun ownership isnt going to change the law. Or shape the law. Or make things go one way or another. laws and SCOTUS are there to stand behind the constitution ya moron, thats what the country is built off of.

Your lack of care about the constitution, SCOTUS and the like have nothing to do with the fact you have no ground to stand on in your arguement right?

Tell ya what. When you can form an appropriate dissertation, and present it to us as an intelligent individual, we might actually stop laughing and pointing. hell, I bet you are smart enough to figure out how to make a power point? Use references and be able to cite them right? You can do it.


Like I said, dont worry, ill wait

 

[420BlackXJ]

Outdated constitution? Seriously???

You sir are seriously a waste of breathable air.

You been livin and drinkin the backwater too long dickbreath
I just wanna say before I get banned **** all you conservative gunstrokers.

 

[Alienspecimen]

 

[tbburg]

So many topics come up,..

Four guns is "hoarding"? What if you have four of the same type of gun?

The only SCOTUS decision I'm aware of concerning gun type is -Miller. It said basically any gun not militarily useful could be regulated. So anything BUT an AR-15/M16

'Not really concerned about "hi-cap" magazines in the 30+ range. Most of them don't work very well. Not sure if the Connecticut shooter had anything bigger then a 30- so don't even know if it's relevant.

Ban all "semi-automatic" weapons,.. isn't a double action revolver "semiautomatic"? It fires one shot each time you pull the trigger with no other action required.

Has anybody stopped to think that most hunting rifles are WAY more powerful then the poodle-punchers the military uses? One of the problems with "armor piercing" ammo bans is that almost all hunting ammo can easily penetrate almost all body armor?

We do seem to be arguing about the whole "at what point are there enough irresponsible people to consider limits on the rights of the rest?"

I think a correction is in order. It was 34,000 vehicular deaths total, not 34K DUI deaths.

All injury deaths

Number of deaths: 177,154
Deaths per 100,000 population: 57.7

Motor vehicle traffic deaths

Number of deaths: 34,485
Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.2

All poisoning deaths

Number of deaths: 41,592
Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.5

All firearm deaths

Number of deaths: 31,347
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.2

Disclaimer on the number of firearm deaths:

All suicides

Number of deaths: 36,909
Deaths per 100,000 population: 12.0
Cause of death rank: 10

Firearm suicides

Number of deaths: 18,735
Deaths per 100,000 population: 6.1

Pulled the stats from here:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

 

[DrMoab]

For most of us it's not the first thought. It's been on our mind way way before this tragedy happened.

 

[420BlackXJ]

For most of us it's not the first thought. It's been on our mind way way before this tragedy happened.

Which is why you are so pathetic.

 

[DrMoab]

You been livin and drinkin the backwater too long dickbreath
I just wanna say before I get banned **** all you conservative gunstrokers.

Funny. You tell me to grow up yet your sole purpose on this site is to piss off long time members. You have never posted anything productive, you pretty much live here in the political area and give grief to a group of people who pretty much hate your guts.

Who needs to grow up? Mr 420 in my name but I really don't smoke pot nudge nudge wink wink.

You take childish antics to a level I haven't seen since well....pretty much ever.

 

[kastein]

And the first part I bolded LITERALLY proves my point. You said it. You just don't know what you really said. Yes, he stole the weapons. If his law abiding, responsible mother would not have been able to legally purchase that assault rifle that put more than 10 bullets in a single small child, he would have been stuck with a simple rifle. What does more damage in a short amount of time? You have to really think about what you are saying...regulation is very effective.

There was no one else there to stop him... I would rather responsible adults are allowed to carry guns because you know what? Police officers are heavy. And when seconds count - like this case - they are only minutes away.

I can stab someone with a knife nearly as fast as someone can fire a semi auto and it doesn't require reloading. I guess you could call it a high capacity knife with unlimited ammo.

Also, you missed the sentence after that - what I'm saying about it being a risk we all take applies to me just as much.

Gun control is not the solution here. Fixing the sociological problems that lead to unhinged people committing these crimes IS. Fixing the mental health problems that lead to this is also something that needs to be done.

But hey, keep arguing for gun control all you want.



And yes, the numbers I listed ARE relevant. Me, I don't really worry too much about being murdered because I am 43 times more likely to die of cancer. I don't even really worry about cancer, because if I get it, it's due to something I already did, or something out of my control, and in either case, there are 300 million of us here and half a million die of it every year, that's around 1 in 600, and I'm not even a smoker or old person. Again, I'll take those odds, especially since I can't do anything about it, I'm stuck with em. If you want to worry about both be my guest, just don't try and tell me I can't own an inanimate object because of your chicken little panic attack over it.

 

[420BlackXJ]

Funny. You tell me to grow up yet your sole purpose on this site is to piss off long time members. You have never posted anything productive, you pretty much live here in the political area and give grief to a group of people who pretty much hate your guts.

Who needs to grow up? Mr 420 in my name but I really don't smoke pot nudge nudge wink wink.

You take childish antics to a level I haven't seen since well....pretty much ever.

:bawl::moon::kissyou:

 

[in4aride]

. I guess you could call it a high capacity knife with unlimited ammo.
.

Best post in this thread :roflmao:

 

[MJ3000]

in4aride, I am done. I'm sick of people who can't responsibly argue. How many curse words or names have I called you? Have I laughed at your opinion? No, I thoroughly read it and analyzed what you had to say. I think I called you an idiot once and I apologize for that.

You (and most people) don't know how this country works. Money makes the world go round...you've probably used that saying sometime in your life. Just realize that it is actually true. The gun companies pour hundreds of millions of dollars into the NRA who has 4 million members. What does the NRA preach? A good portion of its about the 2nd amendment. And the NRA and the people who run it won't get their million dollar salaries if guns are banned. Because when we ban guns, profit for gun companies goes down, and the NRA receives less money. So what does the NRA do, they want EVERYONE to have a gun and support zero gun control. Hmm I wonder why...maybe because they don't care about anything but MONEY. So they threaten and pay politicians to kill any gun control laws. But our politicians would never do that, they're not crooks or anything like that.

Gun companies > NRA (puppet for gun companies) > Politicians (puppets for the NRA) > NRA supporter/member who doesn't know better (puppet for the NRA)

That is why nothing changes. Like I said I am done arguing about this with you in4aride, I am sorry I called you an idiot. Just realize that even though this is only the internet, be nice and respectful. There's a person behind the digitalized words I am typing. Because even though I am mentally mature enough to take them, some people aren't and respond with more anger or threats. Keep this argument serious, because it is a serious issue that needs to be discussed sooner rather than later. Peace man and keep on jeepin! :cheers:

 

[kastein]

Before you retreat from this thread would you like to refute the points I made in my last post?

 

[cracker]

we need more CCWs, more NRA, and a gun in every capable and competent household.

 

[in4aride]

:cheers: Im not mad at all.
Im also not a member of the NRA ( )

But to say I dont know how the world works is laughable. To say I cant responsibly argue is also laughable.

I wanted someone to post reasonable, provable, and legitimate proof to their point. None of you could do that. without using the news or random statistics, no one could prove the point you were trying to make. You included. Call me an idiot or whatever else you want. It's just the internet. But I will still laugh as I have a standing for my arguement and you just verified it.

I stand behind the idea that the constitution and the surrounding documents should be the basis and groundwork for anything here in the US. As you so kindly provided, that is not the case. The world is run by crooks who are so disconnected from the rest of us. Most have their self made money from 1 of the 3 most expensive things in the US (insurance, oil, drugs) And they sit on that money and make changes that affect us and not them.
This is starting to sound a whole lot like what was going on when this country came into form.
As the government gets more currupt and limits the rights and powers of the people it becomes ore true. And as such we need to make a stand for ourselves. What means does this take? Some letters to your representative? Protests? Riots? Who knows. But it was done once before. And to say this country isnt on verge of revolution is an oversight. We are drastically split 50/50.
You want me to respect your opinion. Please argue it in a way that you are not standin on clouds, but a solid platform. I will listen and hopefully learn. ( im only as good as how much i know about the dissenting opinion to my arguemnt)
Until then, Ill just sit back, laugh at the folks that take the interwebz way too seriously, and know that if/when there is a split, you and I will live in two different countries...

 

[MJ3000]

Before you retreat from this thread would you like to refute the points I made in my last post?

Gladly, I'm not withdrawing completely from the thread, just from the people who can't responsibly argue. Your argument about concealed carry makes sense, kind of. The knife thing however, eh not so much.

The concealed carry I agree is a good thing but we need to really really crank down on the regs for that as well. You should be able to have to pass difficult and thorough mental tests before you are issued. Meet with a real educated physician and have them conclude you are mentally stable enough to own a weapon. Now before you or others call me a hypocrite for me saying earlier that you can never tell what someone will do, EVER, that is still true. The doctors won't catch the smart ones who can live two lives. But what they will be able to do is catch all the half-brained crazies just by looking at them. You know there's many people out there that you can just look at and be like yeeeah I don't think I want that guy to have a gun.

The knife thing, completely nonsensical. To kill with a knife, you have to be right next to the victim, physically WORK to kill, and it takes longer than the blink of an eye. That and the vast majority of people have some slight discomfort about just stabbing the living hell out of somebody. Why are guns always used in things like this? Because it's the exact opposite of a knife. You can be tens of yards away from your victim, it's instant death, zero physical work, it won't hurt and you won't have to stab yourself a million times when you commit suicide. As long as one of your arms work and your fingers work, a gun will always complete its task: death.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/15/world/asia/china-us-school-attack/index.html

Proves my point. Sure, 22 children and people were stabbed and severely maimed, but all 22 are ALIVE. China has very strict gun laws and this shows they WORK. Your not going to see mass murders with knives, not even with the best swordsman on Earth.

And if you ever see fox news or conservatives use the Norway mass murder of 77 example, realize that it's all lies. They reason that because this mass shooting happened in Norway, who has extremely strict gun control laws, gun control does not work and criminals will always get them. What they don't tell you is that because he could not get a gun he looked elsewhere. His guns and ammunition came from the good old United States. He ordered them online; WE made those bullets and guns.

 

[XJEEPER]

You been livin and drinkin the backwater too long dickbreath
I just wanna say before I get banned **** all you conservative gunstrokers.

You've just convinced me that I need more firearms.