Another shooting....

Can we take a moment...

Please give the nation a chance to bury the dead, grieve with the families, and support the community before entering into this debate.

The US needs to have a serious debate about mental illness and private ownership of weapons without the rhetoric.

Tell that to the president. Who brought the debate into the church during the memorial service.

Btw I agree but I'm not going to stand back and let what I perceive to be a threat use this tragedy to steamroll over my constitutional rights.
 
I am not clammering for more gun control. Just more responsibility.
Hoarding guns is THE reason this kook had easy access to firearms.
His mom was preparing for the apocalypse.
This mentality that Obama is going to take your guns away, so you better hoard them would be just laughable, if not so pathetic.
When someone steals your hoarded guns and uses them against you or your family, this thinking might change.
 
Emily Parker, age 6, was killed in the Conn. mass murder. They have only lived in Conn. for 8 months. Her family is from the town I live in and we have mutual friends.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=23404268&ni...daughter-at-press-conference&s_cid=featured-2


Family friend of the Parker's have created this memorial fund to assist the Parker family.

Donation Options For the Emilie Parker Memorial:

America First Credit Union: Emilie Parker Memorial Account #5001359. For AFCU members transfer into Share Savings. For Non-AFCU members the routing number is 324377516

PAYPAL: Use the email - [email protected]

For US Post-Mail use:
Emilie Parker Memorial
PO Box 12751
Ogden, UT 84412-2751

To Donate to all the Sandy Hook Families Use the website:
newtown.uwwesternct.org

Thank you for your outpouring of love and support. This international concern is simply amazing. Thank you.
 
Tell that to the president. Who brought the debate into the church during the memorial service.

Btw I agree but I'm not going to stand back and let what I perceive to be a threat use this tragedy to steamroll over my constitutional rights.

well it is the lords house, should he not have the right to talk abut it in his house?
 
Emily Parker, age 6, was killed in the Conn. mass murder. They have only lived in Conn. for 8 months. Her family is from the town I live in and we have mutual friends.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=23404268&ni...daughter-at-press-conference&s_cid=featured-2


Family friend of the Parker's have created this memorial fund to assist the Parker family.

Donation Options For the Emilie Parker Memorial:

America First Credit Union: Emilie Parker Memorial Account #5001359. For AFCU members transfer into Share Savings. For Non-AFCU members the routing number is 324377516

PAYPAL: Use the email - [email protected]

For US Post-Mail use:
Emilie Parker Memorial
PO Box 12751
Ogden, UT 84412-2751

To Donate to all the Sandy Hook Families Use the website:
newtown.uwwesternct.org

Thank you for your outpouring of love and support. This international concern is simply amazing. Thank you.

thanks for the info KSL usually forgets to include the donation info, will donate in the AM.
 
I am not clammering for more gun control. Just more responsibility.
Hoarding guns is THE reason this kook had easy access to firearms.
His mom was preparing for the apocalypse.
This mentality that Obama is going to take your guns away, so you better hoard them would be just laughable, if not so pathetic.
When someone steals your hoarded guns and uses them against you or your family, this thinking might change.


So when did the police provide you access to the case files and brief you on the details of the investigation?

Obama knowingly supported a gun running program into Mexico that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of human beings........and then denied knowledge of it and restricted access to the documentation through Executive Order. His administration has stonewalled the investigation and refused to cooperate with Congressional investigators. He has yet to explain why such a program, which is riddled with even more flaws than the one Bush tried a few years prior, was even initiated.

Yup, I REALLY trust him to do the right thing regarding gun ownership.


Hoarding? If a family has guns, food storage, fuel /energy storage, they are now labeled hoarders, and that's a bad thing in your mind?

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps they prefer to be self-sufficient in the event of an emergency or natural disaster and don't plan on just sitting idly by, waiting for the government to show up and take care of them when the poop hits the fan?

They prefer to take steps, within their Constitutional rights,to be prepared, to protect themselves and their property, to care for their family and help out their neighbors and friends?

Making blanket statements and lumping all of society with any parallels to the the killer and him mom is a HUGE stretch, even for you.

I swear I get dumber every time I read your posts.

Stop being a mindless parrot for the Progressives and wake up.
 
So when did the police provide you access to the case files and brief you on the details of the investigation?

Obama knowingly supported a gun running program into Mexico that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of human beings........and then denied knowledge of it and restricted access to the documentation through Executive Order. His administration has stonewalled the investigation and refused to cooperate with Congressional investigators. He has yet to explain why such a program, which is riddled with even more flaws than the one Bush tried a few years prior, was even initiated.

Yup, I REALLY trust him to do the right thing regarding gun ownership.


Hoarding? If a family has guns, food storage, fuel /energy storage, they are now labeled hoarders, and that's a bad thing in your mind?

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps they prefer to be self-sufficient in the event of an emergency or natural disaster and don't plan on just sitting idly by, waiting for the government to show up and take care of them when the poop hits the fan?

They prefer to take steps, within their Constitutional rights,to be prepared, to protect themselves and their property, to care for their family and help out their neighbors and friends?

Making blanket statements and lumping all of society with any parallels to the the killer and him mom is a HUGE stretch, even for you.

I swear I get dumber every time I read your posts.

Stop being a mindless parrot for the Progressives and wake up.

:moon:
 
Can we take a moment...

Please give the nation a chance to bury the dead, grieve with the families, and support the community before entering into this debate.

The US needs to have a serious debate about mental illness and private ownership of weapons without the rhetoric.

Bullshit, now is the time to talk about this. Im sure you guys would love to put this off... something we've done countless times... columbine, virginia tech, aurora, not to mention all the 'small time' mass shootings that i cant be bothered to look up.

Face it, you guys dont have a plan on what to do about this, except blame obama. Sure, i said i didnt give a **** about these kids, but you guys dont get to pretend like you do either. IF YOU DID, you guys would formulate a plan of action, not crying about your constitutional rights.

HELP HELP, IM BEING OPPRESSED!

What a joke.
 
Fact is on 911 one plane had heroes on it, who willingly decided they were not going to be victims at the hands of s*itheads with box cutters.

And as much as it would hurt if my child was killed in a tragedy like this, I could handle it much better if it were a stray bullet from someone trying to save lives.
First, these 'heros' still died, so your 'IF THEY ONLY FAUGHT BACK!' theory is bullshit.

Secondly, are these people somehow NOT victims of a mass shooting because the bullets were paid for with tax dollars?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/n...aused-by-the-police.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

Thats right, cops couldnt hit the broadside of a barn with their sidearms, 38%. And thats cops who train for this kinda shit.
 
Bullshit, now is the time to talk about this. Im sure you guys would love to put this off... something we've done countless times... columbine, virginia tech, aurora, not to mention all the 'small time' mass shootings that i cant be bothered to look up.

Face it, you guys dont have a plan on what to do about this, except blame obama. Sure, i said i didnt give a **** about these kids, but you guys dont get to pretend like you do either. IF YOU DID, you guys would formulate a plan of action, not crying about your constitutional rights.

HELP HELP, IM BEING OPPRESSED!

What a joke.
Apparently you missed the part where an armed citizen stopped the clackamas shooting.

There were no armed citizens at the school. It's a gun free zone :peace:
 
Apparently you missed the part where an armed citizen stopped the clackamas shooting.

There were no armed citizens at the school. It's a gun free zone :peace:

This is the first time ive even heard of this 'clackamas shooting', proof that our media doesnt give a **** unless youve got a bunch of dead white kids.

Same shit happened after aurora, and the shiek temple shootings, smaller, copy cat shootings happened... only not to be covered by the news because it's not big enough of a story.


T
 
Yep... this one was actually a day before, IIRC. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/12/clackamas-town-center-shooting_n_2283795.html Dec 12th.

First hand witness accounts are linked in a few posts I've made in this thread. The guy shot two people, missed a bunch, then his gun jammed and an armed citizen got him in his sights. He never shot because there were too many innocents behind the perp but the gunman saw him and offed himself rather than being injured/killed/taken and brought to justice.
 
I'm on your side urban yan. Coming from a liberal hipster who probably is going to be crucified for what I'm about to say, gun control makes complete sense. If anyone can come up with a LEGITIMATE argument for why they NEED an AR15 or AK47 that has the capability to fire an ungodly about of bullets in a short amount of time, please I'd love to hear it. Fact is there is no reason. Sure everyone bring up the argument of I just like to shoot guns because it's what I like to do for fun....well if you won't give up your weapons whose only purpose is war and killing to save the life of some child out there who will be murdered in a few days, weeks, or months from now by that kind of weapon, your part of the problem and share the blame. It will happen again and again and again. If we start giving up these weapons of war and high cap magazines, less people will die. Period.

You remember the Gabby Giffords shooting last year? That lunatic got off 30 shots on people. You know what happened after the 30th bullet?? He had to reload. And in that time he was tackled and the shooting was over. Done. What if he didn't have the easy ability to go down the gun shop and pick up a 30 round magazine? He might have only been able to get 10 shots off with a reasonable sized magazine. He would have got off 10 shots, tackled, and that's it. Sure people would have still been hit but its 10 vs 30. Which would you rather? It takes ONE bullet from a good guy, not assault weapons that should be in the hands of the army.

And don't get me wrong, I totally 100% support your "right to bear arms" for hunting and protection that every pro-gun person will preach like its the Bible. But ask the pro-gunners what the first four words of the second amendment are and they're like a deer in the headlights. A WELL REGULATED MILITIA. That means if we're killing each other and more harm is being done than good, we need more regulation. And when a good guy shoots a bad guy, that's not good. Your still murdering a human being, there is nothing good about that, even if they were a little messed up in the head. Somebody's life ended.

More guns = less crime? Your stupidity hurts. Yes, it is a WONDERFUL idea for every single person on this planet to carry a gun, then no one will ever die from a gun again. Yeah, um what planet are you on? What if guns didn't exist? Well, let's look at Japan. Every gun except air rifles and in very extreme cases shotguns are banished from civilians. Regulations there would blow a pro-gun advocates mind. Let's take a look at how fierce and blood thirsty their citizens are. Pro-gunners say crime and murder will go through the roof. Quite the opposite is actually the reality. 10 or less on average per year. The US has 10,000+ on average. Gun control works, criminals will not be able to get a gun easily at all if they are illegal.

Now is the point where many people will bring up the drug war and how making drugs illegal has miserably failed. This is 100% true. The war on drugs has failed and is slowly coming to an end. But WHY? Cannabis is the most widely used illict drug in this country by a huge margin. Now let's do a thought experiment. Say,hypothetically speaking, both cannabis and assault weapons are illegal for regular citizens. You decide your going to forego college and an education to become a professional criminal. Still hypothetically speaking, guns and cannabis brought roughly the same profit no matter which you choose. Obviously you choose cannabis. Why? It takes water and dirt, a mental patient could grow it. Criminals don't have a team of highly skilled engineers, an abundance of high strength steels and aluminums, blueprints, computers, CNC machines, waterjets, lathes, and other expensive, specialized tools that are used to make a gun. And they will find it's very hard to convince the average person with those skills or tools to make them a gun for the sole purpose of murdering people. The drug war comparison is complete lunacy and nonsenical.

So after that daily dose of reality, what do we ultimately do to help fix this? You can still hunt and own a weapon for protection, that's a founding principle of this country, no one can take that away from you. If it were up to me, you can own handguns and rifles, that's it. No huge mags, or war weapons. All the "macho men" who think they're going to be a hero someday need to stop hoarding guns because they're scared they might not be able to get them. These are the same people who say that they "ain't giving up there guns for nothing, and will shoot anyone who tries." Let me tell ya, what a wonderful human being you are. Why don't you just shoot everyone who disagrees with you, guns solve everything, right?

I could say and disprove many more pro-gun arguments with logic, reason, and thought experiment, but I've written enough. I follow politics heavy, and progressive/liberals make the most sense for a sustainable, healthy society. If you have to give up the ability to fire off 100 rounds in your AR15 on the weekend just for fun or let off stress to save the lives of some future children who will be murdered by that weapon, do it. And do it now. The government won't kill us all like many idiots proclaim they will like the Nazis did. Last I checked, 300+ million responsible people with a rifle vs a couple thousand federal "murderers" with assault weapons, the 300 million will win, obviously. There's way too many of us, they can't kill us all.

This ALL boils down to the idea of just being nice. Why are we not up in arms for peace, love, and happiness no matter what the cost? We are all humans, and should never kill anyone period. If a lunatic was about to kill me with a gun, no, I don't want a gun to defend myself. I'll take whatever my fate will be, I will never take the life of another human for any reason. And if more people had that attitude, the world would be a better happier place. I thank all of you who took the time out their day to read this. The reason I have the views I do is because of this kind of mentality:

-"Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another." - Carl Sagan

-”The old appeals to racial, sexual and religious chauvinism, to rabid nationalist fervor, are beginning not to work. A new consciousness is developing which sees the earth as a single organism, and recognizes that an organism at war with itself, is doomed. We are one planet.” - Carl Sagan

So live life to the fullest people, and enjoy everyday you have with the people you love. Guns are the answer to nothing. Peace is.

P.S. To the independents out there who don't really care about politics: notice how I am not mad about this issue like the other people on here are, mainly the pro-gun people. I don't get mad about obvious truths such as this, just sad that there are so many people out there who think guns solve everything and more weapons are the answer. We will destroy ourselves someday if we keep our current attitude. Mark my words.
 
I get it, you want to control what I can peacefully own because you think you should be able to.

Your homework is to go and read up on the difference between natural rights... and privileges/entitlements.

Come back when you've done so, and can tell me why I as a law abiding, pecaeful citizen shouldn't be allowed to own something that does no harm to ANYONE unless I break other laws that would put me in jail forever anyways.
 
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