Americans: So quick to give to the world, yet so blind to thier own issues

[Tom R.]

Lack of funding for education? States are collectively sitting on more than $526.9 million in unspent federal education funds appropriated for their use during the final years of the Clinton administration (FY 2000, FY 2001) before NCLB (No Child Left Behind) was even enacted. 92% of these unspent funds are federal school improvement, special education, Title I funds, and other programs for economically disadvantaged students.

In June of this year states have available for use $16.8 billion in unspent federal education funds. July, many more billions were made available. The fact is, education funding has been greatly increased the past several years, but it goes unused. If local government/schools want to protest Bush's NCLB by not taking the money and abiding by the few rules, then that's where the critisim should be directed.

The fed also spends/grants many millions toward voc ed, adult ed, etc. It's up to people to get motivated to take advantage of these programs. Additionally, some (not all) need to stop expecting a hand-out from the US government and take some control of their lives. Welfare may need another overhaul so that only the truly needy get help.

Social changes happen through changes in society, not through government programs. It's up to local communites to help the destitue, not federal socialism programs.

 

[dandecicco]

This post wasn't to whine about an educational job, hey I am at lunch right now so all good, but it was mentioned. . .

One thing to say, how many of you have a job where you are expected to pay for supplies out of your own pocket, work 24 hours a day for 9 months I have had issues with meetings taking place at 7:30 at night when by contract, I should be done at 3:00. 40,000 seems like a lot but lets break it down a bit. . .

Monthly take home is 2300 (was a little over over 3330 but you know taxes). average 1000 sq foot home payment is 900-1000 a month. That leaves a teqcher with 1300 dollars. Day care =400 a month (900 left) phone 50 = 850, PGE =80 =770. Car ins and payment= 300 leaving 470, home onwners = 70 leaving 400, food for a month = 300(top Ramen type) leaves 100, gas=80 leaving 20, oops child needs clothes 100 = -80 shall I continue for the poor life of an educator with college loans, any debt, and paying for school supplies ouch

 

[5-90]

Lack of funding for education? States are collectively sitting on more than $526.9 million in unspent federal education funds appropriated for their use during the final years of the Clinton administration (FY 2000, FY 2001) before NCLB (No Child Left Behind) was even enacted. 92% of these unspent funds are federal school improvement, special education, Title I funds, and other programs for economically disadvantaged students.

In June of this year states have available for use $16.8 billion in unspent federal education funds. July, many more billions were made available. The fact is, education funding has been greatly increased the past several years, but it goes unused. If local government/schools want to protest Bush's NCLB by not taking the money and abiding by the few rules, then that's where the critisim should be directed.

The fed also spends/grants many millions toward voc ed, adult ed, etc. It's up to people to get motivated to take advantage of these programs. Additionally, some (not all) need to stop expecting a hand-out from the US government and take some control of their lives. Welfare may need another overhaul so that only the truly needy get help.

Social changes happen through changes in society, not through government programs. It's up to local communites to help the destitue, not federal socialism programs.

Thank you for illustrating my point on politics...

5-90

 

[Urban Redneck]

This post wasn't to whine about an educational job, hey I am at lunch right now so all good, but it was mentioned. . .

One thing to say, how many of you have a job where you are expected to pay for supplies out of your own pocket, work 24 hours a day for 9 months I have had issues with meetings taking place at 7:30 at night when by contract, I should be done at 3:00. 40,000 seems like a lot but lets break it down a bit. . .

Monthly take home is 2300 (was a little over over 3330 but you know taxes). average 1000 sq foot home payment is 900-1000 a month. That leaves a teqcher with 1300 dollars. Day care =400 a month (900 left) phone 50 = 850, PGE =80 =770. Car ins and payment= 300 leaving 470, home onwners = 70 leaving 400, food for a month = 300(top Ramen type) leaves 100, gas=80 leaving 20, oops child needs clothes 100 = -80 shall I continue for the poor life of an educator with college loans, any debt, and paying for school supplies ouch

Cry me a river. :rattle: I reagularly stay at work past the time I'm supposed to leave and no where is it contracted what my end time is. Special event at the school and they need a simple coffee set up...I'm there. You work 5 days a week for the most part, 180 days a year. In your off time you can find another job. I know plenty of teachers that do. Rember, you chose to go into teaching, no one twisted your arm. We all have bills and all pay taxes, don't think you'll get much sympathy from this crowd. If you would like to know where to find it...it is between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary. HTH

 

[red91]

This post wasn't to whine about an educational job, hey I am at lunch right now so all good, but it was mentioned. . .

One thing to say, how many of you have a job where you are expected to pay for supplies out of your own pocket, work 24 hours a day for 9 months I have had issues with meetings taking place at 7:30 at night when by contract, I should be done at 3:00. 40,000 seems like a lot but lets break it down a bit. . .

Monthly take home is 2300 (was a little over over 3330 but you know taxes). average 1000 sq foot home payment is 900-1000 a month. That leaves a teqcher with 1300 dollars. Day care =400 a month (900 left) phone 50 = 850, PGE =80 =770. Car ins and payment= 300 leaving 470, home onwners = 70 leaving 400, food for a month = 300(top Ramen type) leaves 100, gas=80 leaving 20, oops child needs clothes 100 = -80 shall I continue for the poor life of an educator with college loans, any debt, and paying for school supplies ouch

1.) Move if you cant afford the housing in your area. 1000sq for $1000.00, you could by a house in Wa with that kinda payment and write off your intrest.
2.) Daycare...Can't afford kids...Condoms $.75 in any local truck stop bathroom.
3.) Phone...get basic with no long distance for about$25.00/mnth and use long distance phone cards.
4.) 300 a month in food is top raman style ??? I spend $300.00 in a month and get most of the food at WINCO, maybe not in your area, but $300.00 will get you T.R. at safeway. Shop around for a NON-UNION grocery.
5.) Gas need it buy it.
6..) nothing left ???? Get a summer job. Mine is 12 months a year 200+ hrs a month, 2weeks vacation a year, after 5 years service.

The teacher crowd does much better than your saying not to mention the retirement bennies that have yet to be discussed. Doing the math I work 33% more and make less in the long run.

Sympathy ??? Nope. The human torch says " FLAME ON! "

 

[Urban Redneck]

The teacher crowd does much better than your saying not to mention the retirement bennies that have yet to be discussed.

According to the NEA, a teacher can collect unused sick days and turn them in at the end of their career for extra years of service credit. My wife has 114, so far, so she can retire at 24 years of service and get credit for 25. They get 10 sick days per year, that's right...2 weeks.

 

[red91]

According to the NEA, a teacher can collect unused sick days and turn them in at the end of their career for extra years of service credit. My wife has 114, so far, so she can retire at 24 years of service and get credit for 25. They get 10 sick days per year, that's right...2 weeks.

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN. Whats sick time ? I cant afford to be sick. ( cough,cough)

 

[BrettM]

Legal trivia - did you know that the first California "Three Strikes" case was Petty Theft with a Prior Offense? I don't remember the item stolen, but there's a man doing 25-to-Life for less than $100. Where's the danger we're being protected from? What's the point of that?

5-90

He must be an idiot to have 2 strikes and go steal something else, even if it was $50. He must be addicted to stealing to be so stupid, next time it would have been something precious to YOU. Now what?





Also, I just want to point out that the poorest people in America are still in the top 90% of the wealthiest in the world. And they did nothing to gain that position but come sliding out of their mother screaming and it happened to be in this country.

damn Americans are selfish

 

[dandecicco]

Cry me a river. :rattle: I reagularly stay at work past the time I'm supposed to leave and no where is it contracted what my end time is. Special event at the school and they need a simple coffee set up...I'm there. You work 5 days a week for the most part, 180 days a year. In your off time you can find another job. I know plenty of teachers that do. Rember, you chose to go into teaching, no one twisted your arm.

On a leaving note, most people blame the problems on society on teachers not doing their jobs. Just look into how many teachers are in court because someone is suing them for not teaching them how to do something that they made the decision themselves not to learn. But, when a teacher has to have multiple jobs like you suggested, can that really be quality education when said teacher is spread out so thin?

Again, I am not complaining about my job. I love what I do even though I do have 3 jobs that all revolve around education no matter the pay. This discussion seems to have headed that way. But as all good discussions create thinking, this one is no different.

To all, thanks for the input from all parties. It is always positive to have other people's ideas when the mind is thinking something through. I will use this as a possible topic in my classroom b/c if this can create so much heated debate, it will surely create thinking in the classroom. I wanted to see if it would get ideas going so that I can look at both sides of a position and try to stay neutral as a teacher.

Have a good day tomorrow.

 

[5-90]

He must be an idiot to have 2 strikes and go steal something else, even if it was $50. He must be addicted to stealing to be so stupid, next time it would have been something precious to YOU. Now what?

The issue is that the whole "three strikes" concept was to target violent crimes against the person - things like assault, rape, battery, murder, and suchlike. This is leaving aside the fact that anyone who is pathologically violent should have been put away or put down long before a "third strike" took place - putting someone away for the rest of their lives for petty theft - probably due to the inability to get a job due to the stigma attached to a felony record and having done prison time - so who is really to blame here? That's a philosophical discussion to be left aside. I've been burgled and had my ride broken in to - I've been mad about it, but I don't think a life term is justice in this case.

Oh - just in case you are wondering, a true psychological addiction to stealing is known as "kleptomania," as is, as I recall, treatable.

And, while the American lower class may be "richer" than the lower class of 80% or so of the rest of the world, this is still relative. While we are talking in terms of pure fiscal content, this is true. However, the key question was put forth by Heinlein for comparing socioeconomic status - "How long must a (insert profession or trade here) work to puchase one kilo of local bread?" It's not all about money - how far does that money go? What will the local basic monetary unit buy? On that scale, poverty is poverty, and only in America is there a definition of "working poor" - people working full-time and barely making subsistence, but too "rich" to get any help. This is not an endorsement of any welfare programme, but please refer to the economic points in my original post this thread...

There is a certain advantage to having seen both industrialised nations and having been to the "Third World." I want to help, but until we can lead by example, we are not in a position to help anyone.

5-90

I thought I'd take a moment to define "violent" crime...

Robbery - Taking of property of another by force or threat of force. Not to be confused with Burglary (taking by stealth, guile, or opportunity) or Extortion (taking by threat against livelihood or personal reputation.)

Murder - Unlawful taking of human life. Not the same as "Homicide" - the simple taking of a human life.

Assault - The threat of violence or harm against another - with or without "Battery" (see below) This includes "Assault with Intent." Also inclues "Vehicular Assault."

Battery - The "consummation" of assault, thus, "Assault and Battery." Swinging your fist is assault. Connecting is Battery, and a second charge.

Malicious Wounding - The damage or injury of another for malicious purposes.

Maiming - Unlawful permanent injury, usually disfiguring or debilitating.

Rape - Unlawful sexual congress, typically by force (although sometimes by duress.) Can stem from Sexual Harrassment. Note that Sexual Harrassment itself is not considered a "violent" crime against the person.

Torture - Using threat or pain as an inducement to the behaviour of another. Typically accompanied by Assault, Battery, and/or Malicious Wounding or Maiming, with a possible Murder charge as well.

Sexual Assault - Crimes related to a forced sex act not necessarily involving the genitalia of the perpetrator - cf. "Sexual Assault with a Foreign Object."

This list is not all-inclusive. Note that these are not only crimes against the person, but are also crimes with a component of violence. Thus, we cannot include simple charges of "Harrassment," "Making Threats," "Annoying a Minor" (yes, that's a real crime in California!) and others of the like. Shoplifting and Pilferage are also not "violent" crimes, and therefore do not make the list. We'll leave aside all of the acts which are illegal due to the principal of malum prohibitum, crimes which are such simply because they are banned by legislative act or fiat - not to be confused with acts malum in se, defined as acts which are wrong on their very face (think The Ten Commandments here, for the most part.) I am often forced to wwonder about the specious morality leading to malum prohibitum acts, but we shall not explore that here.

5-90

 

[bchulett]

If you want sympathy you should've been on Oprah yesterday... she gave away a bunch of stuff and vacations to underpaid overworked teachers...

That's about how much a cop earns working the streets in LA... for 12 months work... dodging bullets.

My suggestion: At the beginning of each school year and once a month, host a party for the parents of all those kids you teach each day ... and pass around the collection plate.

You can remind them of the tax incentives they get for each kid.

This post wasn't to whine about an educational job, hey I am at lunch right now so all good, but it was mentioned. . .

One thing to say, how many of you have a job where you are expected to pay for supplies out of your own pocket, work 24 hours a day for 9 months I have had issues with meetings taking place at 7:30 at night when by contract, I should be done at 3:00. 40,000 seems like a lot but lets break it down a bit. . .

Monthly take home is 2300 (was a little over over 3330 but you know taxes). average 1000 sq foot home payment is 900-1000 a month. That leaves a teqcher with 1300 dollars. Day care =400 a month (900 left) phone 50 = 850, PGE =80 =770. Car ins and payment= 300 leaving 470, home onwners = 70 leaving 400, food for a month = 300(top Ramen type) leaves 100, gas=80 leaving 20, oops child needs clothes 100 = -80 shall I continue for the poor life of an educator with college loans, any debt, and paying for school supplies ouch

 

[Tom R.]

This post wasn't to whine about an educational job, hey I am at lunch right now so all good, but it was mentioned. . .

One thing to say, how many of you have a job where you are expected to pay for supplies out of your own pocket, work 24 hours a day for 9 months I have had issues with meetings taking place at 7:30 at night when by contract, I should be done at 3:00. 40,000 seems like a lot but lets break it down a bit. . .

Monthly take home is 2300 (was a little over over 3330 but you know taxes). average 1000 sq foot home payment is 900-1000 a month. That leaves a teqcher with 1300 dollars. Day care =400 a month (900 left) phone 50 = 850, PGE =80 =770. Car ins and payment= 300 leaving 470, home onwners = 70 leaving 400, food for a month = 300(top Ramen type) leaves 100, gas=80 leaving 20, oops child needs clothes 100 = -80 shall I continue for the poor life of an educator with college loans, any debt, and paying for school supplies ouch

Sounds like you have too much taken out in taxes. You may want to review your exemptions.

BTW, I'm on duty 24/7/365. It comes with the territory.

 

[Glenn B]

Also remind them of the teachers passing the plate that we taxpayers are paying for their wages and for them to teach. Also that schools get X amount of dollars for each student in school.

If any single teacher pressed ME as a taxpayer to give them more, just because I got a Fed tax break, I would tell that person to kiss my ass. I am not paying them to try to tell me how to spend my money. I am paying them to teach. If they wanna get in to politics, they can quit their job and run for the school board. The Board is the one that approves the budget. As I keep saying... this is a LOCAL issue to each and every district.

I like teachers... some are good. But I dislike the "poor me" crap I see lately. State your case, go to your voters. If it fails, and you still feel neglected.... move. Parents move all of the time to take kids out of crappy school districts, and get them in to better ones. The fittest survive.

If you want sympathy you should've been on Oprah yesterday... she gave away a bunch of stuff and vacations to underpaid overworked teachers...

That's about how much a cop earns working the streets in LA... for 12 months work... dodging bullets.

My suggestion: At the beginning of each school year and once a month, host a party for the parents of all those kids you teach each day ... and pass around the collection plate.

You can remind them of the tax incentives they get for each kid.

 

[ACE]

bchulett watches Oprah?!? Hmmm......... :laugh3:

 

[red91]

bchulett watches Oprah?!? Hmmm......... :laugh3:

she gives everything to everyone...needs a tax writeoff or something. So it wouldn't have to be DAY specific.

I heard he likes spongebob...

 

[bchulett]

bchulett watches Oprah?!? Hmmm......... :laugh3:

Hey dude I'm a channel surfer ... and normally don't watch anything other than Fox News when I get home from work, after I just gave 30%-40% of my paycheck to teachers ... and I don't even have kids. Talk about a ripoff.

BTW: My employer made me take some vacation time ... approaching 200 hours. :speepin: Far less than the the 600 hours teachers get each year. :wave:

It's a bitch working for corporate america... I have to wait until 65-67 to retire. What's the retirement plan for those civil service jobs?

Glenn: You think I want to be taxed more? ... pass the collection plate to the parents !!

No sour grapes here.

 

[Glenn B]

Glenn: You think I want to be taxed more? ... pass the collection plate to the parents !!

No sour grapes here.

I assume you live in a place that has a school? Thus a Taxing District for said school? Ya gotta pay. Now.... there is always the option of looking for a place that the voters decided NOT to tax much for schools. Problem then is ya gotta listen to the school people complain about how poor they are, and that your money is not making them comfortable.

I will say it again... it is a local issue. Your taxes too high? Whining here will not change it. Run for office, County Commissioner, City Council, what have ya. THEN you are in a position to slash funds.... see what gets cut, who will get less.... and make a decision. We as the common man cannot really bitch unless we get involved. Simply paying taxes and voting only gets ya so far..... right?

BTW, this is a good discussion so far. I like it.

 

[ACE]

Just kidding man. :kissyou:

My next door neighbor is a Principal of an elementary school. He seems to work pretty hard and he's a good man but during those three months of summer when I'm still going to work daily putting in about 55 hours a week, getting called in to work on my weekends or being called in to work on a day I had scheduled vacation, it's kinda hard believing he needs more pay when he's playing tennis or golfing daily those three months. He pays less than half of what I do for health insurance and gets a slightly higher standard retirement package as his employer (the state) has higher basic matching contributions.

 

[5-90]

Here's a thought - why not a bunch of people who aren't going to have kids, or whose kids are grown, get together and start a district somewhere where there is no school, therefore no teachers/principals/school board/people to kvetch, and therefore can safely lower the property taxes due to no educational expenses? Any comments?

After all, why pay for a service you don't need, IF you can get a bunch of people who don't need the service to get together and agree they don't need it...

5-90

 

[DrMoab]

- putting someone away for the rest of their lives for petty theft - probably due to the inability to get a job due to the stigma attached to a felony record and having done prison time

I have a much cheaper easier solution to the guy who breaks into my house....Its called a Kimber .45ACP. About $650.00-$900.00. Way cheaper then feeding him for the rest of his life...I love the third strike rule...I think they need to use it for everything but speeding tickets. Put um away for life for that crap and if they commit a third violent crime and are convicted don't even send them to the jail....take them out in front of the courthouse and stone them to death!