aftermarket battery cables and connectors

Do I need to go to kellyswhip? What if you don't need "the best money can buy" and you just want basic replacement battery cables b/c of corrosion? I don't off-road and just use the XJ as a basic work commuter. I have no ability or interest in making my own cables. What do I do? Can I just get an autozone cable? I saw the XJ has multiple wires (a 2nd smaller wire) so I can't just use a basic "single" cable. Is my easiest option just to buy an OEM cable set from the dealer for $250? If so, then it seems like kellyswhip is the only option?

I am confused here.

Kellys set up costs WAY LESS than the OEM and is clearly an upgrade.

IIRC Kellys set up costs LESS than a whole set from NAPA or Autozone and are an upgrade, if nothing else they are specifically sized to fit.

IIRC Kellys set up cost LESS than if you tried to buy, cut and crimp your own set (except for the guys here who have the parts and tools readily available)

One HUGE benifit is you don't even have to look under the hood unitl you are ready to install, because Kelly has already figured it all out. No measuring, sizing connectors, running back to get another part or piece.

One thing to keep in mind, (I run into this all the time in my line of work) if you are designing for OEM production, every penny counts because you are punching out hundreds of thousands or millions of units. When your tring to keep a 15-25 year old vehicle on the road, a little quality and "overkill" goes alongway. And frankly, is a no brainer when it is a well thought out fit that still COSTS LESS.

Besides, that OME flat braided ground at the back of the valve cover is rediculous.
 
Agreed. That braid is great (if it was maybe 3 times as big) until water and salt get to it, then it's all over. I generally replace with #2 welding cable terminated with solid copper crimp lugs, since I already owned an 8 ton hydraulic lug crimper.
 
Question....I have unlimited access to 1/0 and 2/0 welding cable and cutters. I would like to make my own battery cables. I have a couple of hiccups. Will I be able to fined ends that fit on this size wire? I'm not sure how to terminate my B+ and B- to the alternator??? It has a small black box with what looks like two terminals on it. I would like to know what I'm doing without taking the alternator out??? 1996 XJ Cherokee Classic, 4.0. I've taken a couple pictures from underneath the rig, I'll try to upload them. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Question....I have unlimited access to 1/0 and 2/0 welding cable and cutters. I would like to make my own battery cables. I have a couple of hiccups. Will I be able to fined ends that fit on this size wire? I'm not sure how to terminate my B+ and B- to the alternator??? It has a small black box with what looks like two terminals on it. I would like to know what I'm doing without taking the alternator out??? 1996 XJ Cherokee Classic, 4.0. I've taken a couple pictures from underneath the rig, I'll try to upload them. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I would contact/message 5-90 he makes upgraded cable kits and is a great source for info.
I have a set of his 0-gauge wires. They are nice. Not saying you need to buy from him since you have the means to make your own. But he should be able to answer your questions.
 
The 5-90 cables are very nice, and I would have no problem running them, but they ARE NOT cheaper than parts store cables, you can replace the oem stuff with generic cables for about $50. The 590 cables are better, and I'm not criticizing his prices, just the comment about them being cheaper...

I'd recommend the double eyelet cables and brass stud terminals.
I've sinse changed jobs and now ground cellular antenna/radioS on a daily basis, so now I make my own...
 
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Thanks, PMd him yesterday and he hasn't got back with me yet. I've been to his site and am using his as a template, just "hopefully" with the cable I have available. I just wanted to know what I was getting in to before I took the alternator off. I've gloogle pictures and posted on other threads hear with no luck yet. Maybe it's just so much of an amature question that nobody wants to deal with it???
 
The 5-90 cables are very nice, and I would have no problem running them, but they ARE NOT cheaper than parts store cables, you can replace the oem stuff with generic cables for about $50. The 590 cables are better, and I'm not criticizing his prices, just the comment about them being cheaper...

I'd recommend the double eyelet cables and brass stud terminals.
I've sinse changed jobs and now ground cellular antenna/radioS on a daily basis, so now I make my own...

I had just mentioned 5-90 mostly so this guy above could get his questions answered. He said that he has cables and means to make them. And was also stating how ncie 5-90s cables are.
 
I just got some good 4GA battery cable that is sold by the foot and copper terminals from the auto parts store and made my own. I clamp the terminals in a vise, heat them up really good with a propane torch & melt solder into the terminals until they are about 80% full with it, and then quickly put the end of the cable in and hold it in place for a few seconds. Put some heat shrink over the ends and you're done. It's very cheap and easy to do. I like adding one or two extra ground cables when doing this, can't have too good of a ground connection. If you don't have an auto parts store near you that sells quality cable by the foot, try a welding supply place. If you have a winch or a big stereo you can even move up to 2GA or larger cable.
 
Question....I have unlimited access to 1/0 and 2/0 welding cable and cutters. I would like to make my own battery cables. I have a couple of hiccups. Will I be able to fined ends that fit on this size wire? I'm not sure how to terminate my B+ and B- to the alternator??? It has a small black box with what looks like two terminals on it. I would like to know what I'm doing without taking the alternator out??? 1996 XJ Cherokee Classic, 4.0. I've taken a couple pictures from underneath the rig, I'll try to upload them. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry - I slipped on this one.

I'd start by checking with a local welding supply house, if you have one - you'll likely be able to find what you need there.

Just note that 0AWG and 00AWG is MASSIVE overkill - if you have access to it gratis, it's not a problem - but if you're going to buy cable, you're just throwing away money. But, I do recall that ring lugs are available in 1/4", 5/16", 3/8", and 1/2" for those cable sizes.

NB: There are a few things to watch out for:
- For those of you with "two-post" PDCs (some OBD-I units had two M6-1.0 input studs,) you'll need to keep the "flag end" of the OEM terminal to tie the two posts together. The OEM lug is tinned copper, and therefore will cut & dress easily with hand tools.
- If you replace the alternator output cable, it is fused from the factory! RENIX used a segment of 10AWG fusible link wire (OEM lead is 6AWG,) OBD-I used a pair of MAXI50 or MAXI60 fuses, OBD-II was back to the fusible link. Any high-current form factor fuse will work, with MEGA and ANL being common (I prefer the ANL fuses, they're easier to find and you can service them in the field in about a minute, you don't have to take things to bits. The ends are slotted - loosen the nuts, slip out the blown fuse, slip in the new fuse, tighten. Posts are either 5/16"-18 or M8-1.25, use thumb nuts and you won't even need tools!)
- The "fence" on the alternator B+ stud guard won't fit anything larger than 4AWG wire. Easy enough to deal with - it's a resin plastic, and will cut easily. Do not eliminate the guard! However, cutting it to pass the larger cable is a simple matter, as is replacing it with a flat guard. To get the guard off, you'll see another nut under the cable lug - remove it, the guard will pull off. Once you've modified the guard, make sure you put it back! Tighten the lower nut to finger-tight (use thumb & one fingertip on a 10m/m socket) and then turn an additional 1/3-1/2 turn. Again, do not eliminate this guard! I've had to go roundy-rounds with people who took it out and wondered why they kept blowing fuses - once I saw that, it was easy to understand - the B+ cable was grounding out on the alternator case, and the fuse was merely doing its job!
- Most of the larger studs are 5/16" or M8-1.25 (effectively the same size, they're often confused,) but the 5/16" rings aren't very common. It's perfectly acceptable to use 3/8" rings on them, use a flat washer if you like (but most people do not.)

Again, my apologies for not answering - I've been having some family (medical) issues for the last few days - me stepdad's been in hospital, and I've been rather a bit worried about him... (Yeah, he's 2500 miles away - but much of my "online" time has been chatting with mum & sis to find out what's going on. Daniel's feeling better now tho - he was actually asking for something to eat to-day!)
 
Sir,

I feel like a douch! Feel free to answer my email at a later time when your family is well.

Don't worry about it - he's on the mend now.

And, if the message you posted here was the same as your email (looked like it,) I've answered it above. Probably better to do it in open forum, since it won't be the only time I'm asked that, I'm sure!
 
Also, I was having a conversation about alternators on @ http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?p=245932397#post245932397




Re: Another Alternator ? Brand preferences
:idea:Where you running the stock wires and battery or had you upgraded those yet? Im just trying to see if it's worth it. I haven't tested anything with a voltmeter but my dash says I start up at 14 and quickly drops to 12is then it plummets when I start turing anything on but never gets down to the red. I'm running an old stock battery, cables and alternator.:idea:
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Today, 07:32
Digger87xj
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Buffalo Creek/Lakewood CO
Posts: 826


Re: Another Alternator ? Brand preferences
Upgraded wires.
Upgrading the alternator won't change the anemic voltage problems XJ 's have in the cab. I have yet to address that in mine. It involves either replacing the main feed wire with a larger gauge or running a parallel wire of the same gauge along the harness.
I don't know if anyone has done it.. I have done no research on it at all.



Can you help me out with this?????
 
I'm glad you fam is doing better. Thanks alot for your help! I guess I need you to draw me a picture in crayon. What are two posts underteath that are under the fence? Where do they lead and what purpose do they serve? Am I upgrading them also?

You will have either three or four connections on the back of the alternator - three will go to insulated posts, the fourth (if present) directly to the alternator case.

The moulded rubber block has NO electronics in it, it is merely a "convenience block" for the technician to get all of the wires in the right place (which, if you can't trust your tech to do, maybe you should hire someone else? Anyhow...)

Refer to the image linked here: http://www.geocities.com/JeepI6Power/img/ndensor.jpg (it's big, I didn't want to put it inline.) This is the backside of a Nippondenso alternator - it's a generic image, but all ND alternators are similar.

At the top right of the image, you will see a single post with a black "fenced" surround. This is the B+ output, and is a cable you will upgrade if you upgrade your alternator (this will be fused at or near the PDC.) OEM is a 6AWG RED wire, the post is M6-1.0. This post is ALWAYS HOT - it is connected directly to B+, via the fuse!

At the top left, you will see a pair of small studs with a common grey plastic surround. These are the connections for the field coil - and may be left alone. The studs, as I recall, are M4-0.6, and I believe the wiring is 14AWG (colour may vary by year.) These are apparently fed a PWM +12V signal from the PCM, in response to electrical demand (PWM = Pulse Width Modulation - the more power is needed, the wider the pulses are. It's a "pulsed DC" signal.)

If there is a "local ground" for the alternator, it may attach to any of the screws/studs holding the rear shield on, to a mounting screw, or whatever - it's a ground, and requires no special treatment (apart from keeping clean & tight.)

If you look carefully at the B+ stud, you can see the hex nut that holes the cable lug down. If you look behind that, you can just see a SECOND hex nut - this is the one you'd remove to take the plastic shroud off to modify it. Both of these nuts should take a 10m/m wrench.

Make any more sense now? Or should I go buy a box of crayons? :looney::lecture:
 
Once again, thank you so much. Now will this solve the problem of my interior seeming underpowered? Slow windows, dim interior or can ALL of the wiring in my XJ stand to be upgraded??? My A/C is a power hog and seems to drop my voltmeter considerably??? Is an upgraded recommended to its wiring?
 
Once again, thank you so much. Now will this solve the problem of my interior seeming underpowered? Slow windows, dim interior or can ALL of the wiring in my XJ stand to be upgraded??? My A/C is a power hog and seems to drop my voltmeter considerably??? Is an upgraded recommended to its wiring?

Oddly, a lot of minor "issues" seem to just vanish when the mains wiring is upgraded properly - go figure.

Your AC will be a power hog - you're pulling in a heavy-duty magnetic clutch and kicking on extra fans. Upgrading the mains wiring will probably give you less of a drop - but upgrading the alternator is probably your best bet for minimizing the drop overall (apart from just not using the aircon - not always an option, I know...)

When your aircon kicks on, you're looking at a quick dump load of probably 50A, and a running load of 25-35A, and that's going to drop your system voltage (voltage, current, resistance, and power in a closed system are all mathematically related. cf: Ohm's Law, Watt's Law.) Reducing conductor loss in primary distribution will lessen the effect somewhat, but you're probably still running pretty close to max output on your alternator when it all kicks in - which means your voltage MUST drop. By increasing the potential current delivery from your alternator, the voltage drop will still be extant - but it will be notably LESS.
 
I don't believe the AC pulls that much, iirc the fusing for the AC clutch relay is ~20 amps. Let me check real quick.

Unless you are counting the HVAC blower in that total, in which case it's much more in line with reality... but that number also applies to heating.

edit: I checked -
(all for a 96, probably similar for other years)
AC compressor clutch fused @ 30A
radiator fan fused @30A (comes on part of the time when the AC is on)
HVAC blower fused @30A

All of those are fused to handle maximum draws, so I'd guess each is closer to 20-25 constant. Still, that's not an insignificant load.
 
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Again, thanks a lot....you helping out more than you know. Im out of town this week but, next weekend, Ill start on my wires. Being on the coast of Fla, there are TONS of marine stores down here that carry heavy duty copper "everything". So Ill have an easier time finding affordable terminals. I also have access to a variety of wire for free. I plan on using the largest gauge I can find terminations for. Does it pay to run larger wire throughout the rest of the vehicle????
 
5-90,

Will this help to correct the power issues inside the cab or will I have to address the "main" like digger said? If so, any advice?

Hm.

Just to make sure we're on the same page here - when I talk about "mains," I'm talking about the high-current leads underhood (engine ground, chassis ground, engine-chassis tie, starter motor feed, PDC feed, alternator output.)

And yes, cleaning up the mains usually serves to improve power distribution to pretty much ANYTHING, because you've reduced conductor loss significantly.

If I'm missing something, please tell me so!
 
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