burntkat
NAXJA Member #1145
- Location
- Charleston, SC
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
I'd thought of that, but 50 miles seems like an awful small sample set.
I'd thought of that, but 50 miles seems like an awful small sample set.
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Acetone will increase gas mileage?!?!?
- Thread starter crazy4mopar
- Start date
jjvande
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Albuquerque NM 505 burque
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
If your odometer is within a few miles accuracy, the filling pump is accurate to +_1/10th of a gal or so....should be long enough if you tried to be consistent
If your odometer is within a few miles accuracy, the filling pump is accurate to +_1/10th of a gal or so....should be long enough if you tried to be consistent
Big Red
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Roscoe, IL 61073
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
How much acetone are you using Lee? Did you add more or stay at your 2 ounces per 10 gallons? Just wondering. I wouldn't want to add more than 4 ounces per 10 gallons. I told my family and they think my motor will blow up. :laugh3: Are any of you guys also thinking of running the fuel injector cleaner that was suggested for around $20/bottle? How about doing that and then the acetone treatments? I plan to use a tranny funnel with the long hose as to not ruin my paint, you have to really watch this stuff. It is paint remover after all.
crazy4mopar said:Ok here is todays report!!
I drove my 98 GMC Z 71 1500, 5.7L motor, 4x4 and stock tires.
I drove 103 miles at 70 MPH with no traffic. I averaged 19.43 MPG, thats almost 5 MPG more than no acetone!!!!
On the return trip I drove a combination of stop & go city traffic, 40-50 MPH back road traffic and 75-80 MPH on the freeway. I averaged 18.05 MPG, thats about 4 1/2 MPG more than without acetone!!!!
I say it's working
How much acetone are you using Lee? Did you add more or stay at your 2 ounces per 10 gallons? Just wondering. I wouldn't want to add more than 4 ounces per 10 gallons. I told my family and they think my motor will blow up. :laugh3: Are any of you guys also thinking of running the fuel injector cleaner that was suggested for around $20/bottle? How about doing that and then the acetone treatments? I plan to use a tranny funnel with the long hose as to not ruin my paint, you have to really watch this stuff. It is paint remover after all.
crazy4mopar
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Poway Ca,
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
1 oz. for every 5 gallons
1 oz. for every 5 gallons
burntkat
NAXJA Member #1145
- Location
- Charleston, SC
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
couple things-
if you're not grinding into the paint with the acetone, it wil not eat your paint-- assuming you're not running a cheap MAACO paintjob.
the motor will NOT blow up. You're putting acetone in solution with gas at something like a 1:640 ratio. If your motor blows up from this, it would have blown from gas.
There is NO reason to run the injector cleaner, too. What do you think Acetone does?
The site we're all getting this info from suggests starting at 1 oz per 10 gallons. Then experiment as previously mentioned and track your progress. I'd probably say to follow that advice-- that fellow's been doing this for over 50 years- Lee's been doing it for 3 days or so. No offense to Lee, but I think the other guy might have a leg-up on him here...
couple things-
if you're not grinding into the paint with the acetone, it wil not eat your paint-- assuming you're not running a cheap MAACO paintjob.
the motor will NOT blow up. You're putting acetone in solution with gas at something like a 1:640 ratio. If your motor blows up from this, it would have blown from gas.
There is NO reason to run the injector cleaner, too. What do you think Acetone does?
The site we're all getting this info from suggests starting at 1 oz per 10 gallons. Then experiment as previously mentioned and track your progress. I'd probably say to follow that advice-- that fellow's been doing this for over 50 years- Lee's been doing it for 3 days or so. No offense to Lee, but I think the other guy might have a leg-up on him here...
burntkat
NAXJA Member #1145
- Location
- Charleston, SC
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
just got home- got off work at midnight- from a 2 hour drive after work. Put about 70 more miles on the truck just basically because I'm impatient to see what I'm going to find with this experiment. Truck now has 120 miles on it, and the fuel gauge is still above "Full" <At fillup, it goes way to the right and pegs against the stop, above Full>.
Normally at this point it would be indicating something around 3/4 tank. It's looking good so far, can't wait till I am at 1/4 and take on fuel to see what the math says......
just got home- got off work at midnight- from a 2 hour drive after work. Put about 70 more miles on the truck just basically because I'm impatient to see what I'm going to find with this experiment. Truck now has 120 miles on it, and the fuel gauge is still above "Full" <At fillup, it goes way to the right and pegs against the stop, above Full>.
Normally at this point it would be indicating something around 3/4 tank. It's looking good so far, can't wait till I am at 1/4 and take on fuel to see what the math says......
Slip Kid
That'll buff right out
- Location
- A cornfield in IL
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
Does anyone out there with more chem knowlege than me know anything that can confirm that webpage's claim that alcohol INREACES surface tension?
My father reported a ~3 mpg increase over reg 87oct when he would use 89 oct 10% ethonol gas in his 93 (my motor now). He also tells me that 93 oct NO alcohol gives about the same mileage as reg 87 no alc. so either the ODB1 HO works best on 89 octane, or works better with alcohol over no alc.
if someone can prove the site's claim of alcohol increaces surface tension, I'll give acetone a try and see if the gain is better than the 89 oct 10% ethonol. if someone disproves the surface tension claim, I'll stick with the ethonol. 10% ethonol pump gas can be found cheaper than regular at all honest gas stations, at least here in the midwest - since 10% eth gas is acually cheaper in wholesale than reg no alc.
hell I'll probably try the acetone regaurdless of the surface tension claim's valitity, and see if the increace is more than with alcohol
Does anyone out there with more chem knowlege than me know anything that can confirm that webpage's claim that alcohol INREACES surface tension?
My father reported a ~3 mpg increase over reg 87oct when he would use 89 oct 10% ethonol gas in his 93 (my motor now). He also tells me that 93 oct NO alcohol gives about the same mileage as reg 87 no alc. so either the ODB1 HO works best on 89 octane, or works better with alcohol over no alc.
if someone can prove the site's claim of alcohol increaces surface tension, I'll give acetone a try and see if the gain is better than the 89 oct 10% ethonol. if someone disproves the surface tension claim, I'll stick with the ethonol. 10% ethonol pump gas can be found cheaper than regular at all honest gas stations, at least here in the midwest - since 10% eth gas is acually cheaper in wholesale than reg no alc.
hell I'll probably try the acetone regaurdless of the surface tension claim's valitity, and see if the increace is more than with alcohol
xj8_8
NAXJA Member #1317
- Location
- Bedford Ind
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
Alcohol does not increase milage it decreases it. I run alcohol in my modified we will burn 5 to 6 gal in a 15 lap race, On gas they only use around 2 to 3 gal in the same race. My alcohol carb uses 100 pri & 120 sec jets to supply the fuel. My gas carb only has 68 pri & 72 sec jets. The alcohol in pump is only there to take up space. 10% alcohol-10% less petroleum. I to will the acetone in both XJ's and our tow rig.
my 02
Alcohol does not increase milage it decreases it. I run alcohol in my modified we will burn 5 to 6 gal in a 15 lap race, On gas they only use around 2 to 3 gal in the same race. My alcohol carb uses 100 pri & 120 sec jets to supply the fuel. My gas carb only has 68 pri & 72 sec jets. The alcohol in pump is only there to take up space. 10% alcohol-10% less petroleum. I to will the acetone in both XJ's and our tow rig.
my 02
Slip Kid
That'll buff right out
- Location
- A cornfield in IL
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
funny how i got a ~3 mpg increase every single time I ran it. I test mileage every time I fill and I've been doing that for about 3 years. I switch between alc and non alc every few fillups as suggested in owners manual. 10% did better every single time. on an 87 XJ 4.0 with stock internals. similar results in my bone stock 93 4.0
This relates to an internally stock street driven 4.0 how??? hmm, not at all - you're racing and using a differnt setup for both fuels. and I for some reason doubt you're using 89 octane 10% ethonol pump gas in that thing.
I guess I'll ask again if anyone knows anything about the surface tension of ethanol?
funny how i got a ~3 mpg increase every single time I ran it. I test mileage every time I fill and I've been doing that for about 3 years. I switch between alc and non alc every few fillups as suggested in owners manual. 10% did better every single time. on an 87 XJ 4.0 with stock internals. similar results in my bone stock 93 4.0This relates to an internally stock street driven 4.0 how??? hmm, not at all - you're racing and using a differnt setup for both fuels. and I for some reason doubt you're using 89 octane 10% ethonol pump gas in that thing.
I guess I'll ask again if anyone knows anything about the surface tension of ethanol?
rumblebelly
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- FT COLLINS, CO
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
Polarity deterimines surface tension. Polarity has to do with how the molecule is arranged which determines how attracted it's own molecules are to each other through positive and negative charges. Organic solvents such as the alcohol and acetone are less polar than water which means they have less surface tension (water beads up on a smooth surface, alcohol really doesn't, acetone evaporates so damn fast you can't really tell). Polarity is tough to explain and I'm not the one to do it. Perhaps someone else can?
Actually I think methanol, not sure about ethanol, has about the same surface tension as acetone BUT the vapor pressure of acentone is much higher (184.5 Torr @ 20C) than methanol (97 Torr). I believe it's the high vapor pressure that makes acetone the big contender to use since it aids in "vaporization" by evaporating quickly.
Sorry, don't have any data right now about ethanol since I'm at home. However, I've used all three solvents at work and I can tell you that methanol evaporates quicker than ethanol and acetone evaporates way quicker than methanol. Because of this, I can see why ethanol would be a bad choice and acetone would be a good one if you wanna increase the vaporization of fuel.
Hope this helps a little.
I have a question though. I told my dad about this and he was concerned about vapor lock if he added acetone. He's had some problems with ethanol gas (they use that often in Nebr) in some vehicles. You'd think acetone would cause even more problems.
Slip Kid said:
Polarity deterimines surface tension. Polarity has to do with how the molecule is arranged which determines how attracted it's own molecules are to each other through positive and negative charges. Organic solvents such as the alcohol and acetone are less polar than water which means they have less surface tension (water beads up on a smooth surface, alcohol really doesn't, acetone evaporates so damn fast you can't really tell). Polarity is tough to explain and I'm not the one to do it. Perhaps someone else can?
Actually I think methanol, not sure about ethanol, has about the same surface tension as acetone BUT the vapor pressure of acentone is much higher (184.5 Torr @ 20C) than methanol (97 Torr). I believe it's the high vapor pressure that makes acetone the big contender to use since it aids in "vaporization" by evaporating quickly.
Sorry, don't have any data right now about ethanol since I'm at home. However, I've used all three solvents at work and I can tell you that methanol evaporates quicker than ethanol and acetone evaporates way quicker than methanol. Because of this, I can see why ethanol would be a bad choice and acetone would be a good one if you wanna increase the vaporization of fuel.
Hope this helps a little.
I have a question though. I told my dad about this and he was concerned about vapor lock if he added acetone. He's had some problems with ethanol gas (they use that often in Nebr) in some vehicles. You'd think acetone would cause even more problems.
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Slip Kid
That'll buff right out
- Location
- A cornfield in IL
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
thanks rumble that's exactly the kind of info i was lookin for. more in depth than I expected but that's a :thumbup: good thing. I suppose I should test the acetone with regular, the 89 oct 'gasohol', and the regular on it's own.
unfortunately takes me a week to use a tank of gas and I would want to test each fuel 3 times before I'll belive the results :laugh3:
I think I'll pass on adding acetone to the gasoho however, unless someone wants to loan me a jeep for a week.....
thanks rumble that's exactly the kind of info i was lookin for. more in depth than I expected but that's a :thumbup: good thing. I suppose I should test the acetone with regular, the 89 oct 'gasohol', and the regular on it's own.
unfortunately takes me a week to use a tank of gas and I would want to test each fuel 3 times before I'll belive the results :laugh3:
I think I'll pass on adding acetone to the gasoho however, unless someone wants to loan me a jeep for a week.....
Rough 01
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Herndon, VA
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
I'd like to try this (I'm sure everyone here does) but one thing I haven't seen discussed is the effect on the fuel lines? Will the acetone cause them to wear out faster? Will it eat through it right away or will it be fine?
TIA,
Rough
I'd like to try this (I'm sure everyone here does) but one thing I haven't seen discussed is the effect on the fuel lines? Will the acetone cause them to wear out faster? Will it eat through it right away or will it be fine?
TIA,
Rough
crazy4mopar
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Poway Ca,
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
Here is todays report
I have in the Blazer now. Its a 72 blazer, 350,4 speed and 35" MTR's. I ran it about 90 miles. I averaged 17.65 MPG, thats a little over 3 1/2 MPG better than before!!!
I think I'll start using it in everything from my weed eater to the XJ!!
Here is todays report
I have in the Blazer now. Its a 72 blazer, 350,4 speed and 35" MTR's. I ran it about 90 miles. I averaged 17.65 MPG, thats a little over 3 1/2 MPG better than before!!!
I think I'll start using it in everything from my weed eater to the XJ!!
Jerms
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Northern utah
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
i also took the dive and thought that i would try it, so i but about 3 oz in the wife's tj and drove it about 120Miles today. it has been averaging about 16.4 mpg and with acetone it got 21.3 mpg i would say that is a significant improvement.
Wifes tj
2.5 4 cyl
5 spd
32" bfg at
4.10 gears
Jerms
i also took the dive and thought that i would try it, so i but about 3 oz in the wife's tj and drove it about 120Miles today. it has been averaging about 16.4 mpg and with acetone it got 21.3 mpg i would say that is a significant improvement.
Wifes tj
2.5 4 cyl
5 spd
32" bfg at
4.10 gears
Jerms
BrettM
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- michifornia
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
this is too good to be true.... i'm suspicious, but I'll do it anyway
this is too good to be true.... i'm suspicious, but I'll do it anyway
Lucas
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- ZOO YORK CITY
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
Once and for all, 2oz of acetone in your tank is not going to wear out, burn through, or eat away anything. I practically lived in an Organic chem lab over the past two years, and on the grand scale of scary substances, acetone is way way low on the list. Acetone and most modern rubber get along. Acetone and most plastics under "4" (on the markingon the bottom of plastic bottles) don't. We bathed in the stuff at the end of the day, I've gotten splashed directly in the eyes, and I know I've accidentally consumed way more than most people. It's not gonna kill you or your jeep in this application.
I haven't read the article yet, but what is the deal with the surface tension questions? I'll answer what I know.
Once and for all, 2oz of acetone in your tank is not going to wear out, burn through, or eat away anything. I practically lived in an Organic chem lab over the past two years, and on the grand scale of scary substances, acetone is way way low on the list. Acetone and most modern rubber get along. Acetone and most plastics under "4" (on the markingon the bottom of plastic bottles) don't. We bathed in the stuff at the end of the day, I've gotten splashed directly in the eyes, and I know I've accidentally consumed way more than most people. It's not gonna kill you or your jeep in this application.
I haven't read the article yet, but what is the deal with the surface tension questions? I'll answer what I know.
Lucas
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- ZOO YORK CITY
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
Are you sure about that? I know myself and a few chemical engineers have spent many nights going over the organic reactions that are used to bump gasolines into the next octane bracket. All I can remember of it was that it involved heat and some ketone catalyst and believe it was called "cracking"? I can look it up again for reference.
If all they do is add non-reactive junk at a refinery, there are a lot of pissed off pre medical and engineering students that want about a week of their lives back.
old_man said:
Are you sure about that? I know myself and a few chemical engineers have spent many nights going over the organic reactions that are used to bump gasolines into the next octane bracket. All I can remember of it was that it involved heat and some ketone catalyst and believe it was called "cracking"? I can look it up again for reference.
If all they do is add non-reactive junk at a refinery, there are a lot of pissed off pre medical and engineering students that want about a week of their lives back.
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Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
Hear, hear :yelclap: Let's do the math on this.
1 gallon equals 128 ounces. 5 gallons, therefore, equal 640 ounces.
1 ounce of acetone per 5 gallons is 1/640th of the total fuel capacity, or 0.0015625 percent of the amount of fuel in your tank. This is such a tiny percentage that you've probably got better odds of winning the lottery than it causing any damage to your fuel system.
Further, still going with that 0.0015625% figure, there is probably more moisture (read: water), sediment, and/or rust by volume in your tank at any given time than acetone. Some of that gets trapped by the filter; some doesn't. Looking at it rationally, which is more likely to cause more damage?
Lucas said:
Hear, hear :yelclap: Let's do the math on this.
1 gallon equals 128 ounces. 5 gallons, therefore, equal 640 ounces.
1 ounce of acetone per 5 gallons is 1/640th of the total fuel capacity, or 0.0015625 percent of the amount of fuel in your tank. This is such a tiny percentage that you've probably got better odds of winning the lottery than it causing any damage to your fuel system.
Further, still going with that 0.0015625% figure, there is probably more moisture (read: water), sediment, and/or rust by volume in your tank at any given time than acetone. Some of that gets trapped by the filter; some doesn't. Looking at it rationally, which is more likely to cause more damage?
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
In the interests of getting a bearing on how this whole acetone thing is working out for people, I've decided to make a run out to the desert tomorrow. The plan is to leave Pasadena around noon and head out to what was once the site of the Mojave Phone Booth. This is a round trip of approximately 420 miles.
The driving will be mostly freeway, though the elevation will climb from around 865 feet to approximately 4200 feet at the booth. All but the last 11 miles are on interstates; the remainder is a mixture of 2WD, 4FT, and 4LO sand.
Currently the plan is to tank up in Pasadena with 87-octane - adding four ounces of acetone - and bring two 5-gallon NATO cans with me for backup with acetone added in the same ratio. This gives a total of 30 gallons of fuel, so I should be able to keep to or better an average MPG figure of 420/30, or 14mpg.
The cruise control will be set at 75 for as much of the time as possible, and both the trip and average fuel economy meters will be reset at fill-up. The intention is to leave late enough in the day that rush hour can be avoided both ways, but weather and traffic accidents, etc., can't be planned for.
Note that this is not intended to be the final word on acetone-addled fuel economy - I just need a shot at a decent run in order to be able to get some bearing on it.
In the interests of getting a bearing on how this whole acetone thing is working out for people, I've decided to make a run out to the desert tomorrow. The plan is to leave Pasadena around noon and head out to what was once the site of the Mojave Phone Booth. This is a round trip of approximately 420 miles.
The driving will be mostly freeway, though the elevation will climb from around 865 feet to approximately 4200 feet at the booth. All but the last 11 miles are on interstates; the remainder is a mixture of 2WD, 4FT, and 4LO sand.
Currently the plan is to tank up in Pasadena with 87-octane - adding four ounces of acetone - and bring two 5-gallon NATO cans with me for backup with acetone added in the same ratio. This gives a total of 30 gallons of fuel, so I should be able to keep to or better an average MPG figure of 420/30, or 14mpg.
The cruise control will be set at 75 for as much of the time as possible, and both the trip and average fuel economy meters will be reset at fill-up. The intention is to leave late enough in the day that rush hour can be avoided both ways, but weather and traffic accidents, etc., can't be planned for.
Note that this is not intended to be the final word on acetone-addled fuel economy - I just need a shot at a decent run in order to be able to get some bearing on it.
xj92
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Junction City, KS
Re: Acetone will increase MPG?!?!
I tested it on my trip to Tucson and back on Saturday in both my car and my Jeep (the purpose of the trip was to retrieve my Jeep and drive it up here because we moved). The trip down there is a lot of downhill, the trip back is a lot of uphill, so the car went round trip and the Jeep just did the uphill part. I got 28.6 mpg in the car, which usually gets around 25 on trips, and I got 16.5 mpg in the Jeep which usually gets around 15.5 on trips, but would have probably gotten a little lower on this trip because it was mostly uphill. I have a little notebook that I keep track of my mileage with on each tank, so I'm aware of what mileage I've been getting for every tank for the last 10 years. I keep track of the miles and divide them by the # of gallons to fill up the tank. The only variability in that is that some pumps auto-stop before others, but that's a minor variation. Just sharing my experience with it.
I tested it on my trip to Tucson and back on Saturday in both my car and my Jeep (the purpose of the trip was to retrieve my Jeep and drive it up here because we moved). The trip down there is a lot of downhill, the trip back is a lot of uphill, so the car went round trip and the Jeep just did the uphill part. I got 28.6 mpg in the car, which usually gets around 25 on trips, and I got 16.5 mpg in the Jeep which usually gets around 15.5 on trips, but would have probably gotten a little lower on this trip because it was mostly uphill. I have a little notebook that I keep track of my mileage with on each tank, so I'm aware of what mileage I've been getting for every tank for the last 10 years. I keep track of the miles and divide them by the # of gallons to fill up the tank. The only variability in that is that some pumps auto-stop before others, but that's a minor variation. Just sharing my experience with it.
