72 yr old tazed

[fscrig75]

And I say again, "was it necessary ?". People just get tired of being screwed with. I can almost guarantee you, she will never vote yes on any bond issue to help out law enforcement. Who cares if the cops drive 15 year old junk heaps? She will likely perceive the Police as the enemy and share her feelings with anybody willing to listen. Old people are often political, wanna bet what her new pet peeve is? Have you ever dealt with a vindictive old lady before? Add her to a very long list of dissatisfied customers. Always keep the thought in the back of your mind, no matter how bad ass you are, as a Policeman, you are still out numbered about 300 to one and out of that three hundred there are typically 45 dangerous ones, 9 psychos and around 190 that can be swayed one way or the other. When I was in training, Sociology and Psychology classes were required, many of you guys must have slept through those classes.
One thing about being old, in many situations you can honestly say "been there done that" and you can often see trouble brewing years before it actually hits.
To answer Darky's statement about me being retarded, even if I'm half as smart as you are, I've likely had twice as long to get it right and am at least bright enough not to be blinded by my arrogance.
Sun Tzu, "you can win every battle and still loose the war." or maybe to put it more subtly, think about the difference between wining and succeeding?

If she wasn't obeying the cop's commands and was becoming a threat to herself and others, almost walking onto a street. Then yes it was absolutely necessary. If people don't want to be screwed with then follow the laws. Just because you don't agree with a law doesn't make it okay to break the that law.

So she won't vote on a certain Bond issue, are the cops supposed to drum down how they enforce the laws so the average retarded voter will vote for a new bond?
I would bet there are just as many people who are happy she got tased as here people who are bothered by it. I bet she is the type of nosey old lady that no one likes but she has dirt on everyone so they all tolerate her.

Its very easy for the cop to say, screw it, and let the crazy old lady go. But he made the "hard" right choice and not let her go. Just because you feel entitled doesn't mean that you are.

Just remember you can't make everyone happy. Is it better to enforce the laws the same way with everyone or to give certain people a break because they threw a tantrum, like a 2 y/o, on the side of the road? I know my answer. What's yours?

 

[8Mud]

If people don't want to be screwed with then follow the laws. Just because you don't agree with a law doesn't make it okay to break the that law.

"The law", we have a section of street here, speed limit sign (40 MPH) then 50 yards later a city limit sign (35 MPH) then 25 yards after that another 40 MPH sign. Radar trap, they set up right behind the city limit sign. I can drive down two blocks (from the radar trap) turn right and see guys dealing dope. I imagine you can repeat this scenario in most any city in the US. The people of this town decided to shut down the local Police station (not fund it anymore). They weren't doing anything about crime, mostly just harassing the citizens.
You couldn't lift (in print), much less carry the California law, even just the vehicle part. Times that, by every municipality and State, I doubt there is a single person on the planet who actually knows the "Law".
So you give some muscle brain a gun and three months training and expect him to use common sense. And apply something nobody knows and fewer actually understand, in a way that doesn't ferment rebellion.
Little old lady, 15 MPH over the limit, obviously excited, gets tazed for being mouthy. I guess if she took off running, shooting her in the back would be justified? Heck she might be Bin Laden in disguise.

 

[8Mud]

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/12/good-cop-bad-cop/
http://www.amnestyusa.org/us-human-rights/taser-abuse/page.do?id=1021202
http://www.hrsonline.org/News/Media/press-releases/press-release-taser-danger.cfm
Quote.
Given that the speeding ticket had already been issued, it's also difficult to understand what purpose was served by prolonging the encounter and demanding a signature. A similar incident in Utah in 2007 between a state trooper and a motorist also resulted in a Tasering after the driver declined to sign a speeding ticket. In that case, the officer escalated the matter to a violent conclusion even though Utah law doesn't actually require a signature. Texas law apparently follows the same reasoning, considering the signature merely a promise to appear in court, not a necessity for the validity of the ticket itself.

 

[BIgDaddyChia]

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/12/good-cop-bad-cop/
http://www.amnestyusa.org/us-human-rights/taser-abuse/page.do?id=1021202
http://www.hrsonline.org/News/Media/press-releases/press-release-taser-danger.cfm
Quote.
Given that the speeding ticket had already been issued, it's also difficult to understand what purpose was served by prolonging the encounter and demanding a signature. A similar incident in Utah in 2007 between a state trooper and a motorist also resulted in a Tasering after the driver declined to sign a speeding ticket. In that case, the officer escalated the matter to a violent conclusion even though Utah law doesn't actually require a signature. Texas law apparently follows the same reasoning, considering the signature merely a promise to appear in court, not a necessity for the validity of the ticket itself.

But in Texas refusing to sign mean ur going to jail. She should have signed the ticket end of story.

 

[BIgDaddyChia]

And just for those of u who are in the dark, the area she was pulled over on is one of the most dangerous stretched of road around here. There have been something like 20 fatalties over the past few years on it. Shes lucky sh only got tased. IN Williamson County we would have thrown the book at ther and sentenced her to 5 years in the pen.

 

[BIgDaddyChia]

My claims.

A dozen deaths in 18 months.
http://www.txcn.com/sharedcontent/dws/txcn/austin/stories/033108kvue71speed-bm.1c236733.html

There isnt a week that goes by that there is not some type of bad wreck on that road. Had one the other day that claimed 3 lives a Father and 2 of his kids. Should I keep going 8mud or do u want to keep arguing that u think u know what was right.

 

[8Mud]

And just for those of u who are in the dark, the area she was pulled over on is one of the most dangerous stretched of road around here. There have been something like 20 fatalties over the past few years on it. Shes lucky sh only got tased. IN Williamson County we would have thrown the book at ther and sentenced her to 5 years in the pen.

They would likely have done the same in Berlin in 1939. Or shipped her off to a labor camp after pulling her gold teeth,
Remind me to avoid Texas. I may never get to visit the relatives in Young County, the place is just to dangerous.

I just think this Law and Order thing can be carried to extremes. There is a stretch of highway near Camp Pendleton in Cal. my Uncle died there with me in the back seat, always has been dangerous, always likely will be, no matter how many tickets have been handed out. I doubt tazing a little old lady is going to help any. I remember the Cop saying get away from here and go home, I was in shock and walking dazed around the wreck, i guess he assumed I was a rubber necker out sightseeing. I'm surprised I wasn't tazed for failing to follow instructions, I was five, but heck that's no excuse. One of my brothers died about five miles from the same spot.
Point is, was tazing the old lady necessary?
And by the way, I also remember watching a Cop (serious bad ass) driving off road (in the passengers seat) with his two year old son in his lap, with no seat belt on. I remember mentioning to him in a low key sort of way, dumb idea. A couple of minutes later the driver hit a pot hole he and his son hit the roof. I guess that's what you get when you put a minor mentality in a possition of authority, catastrophe waiting to happen.

 

[Darky]

And I say again, "was it necessary ?". People just get tired of being screwed with.
To answer Darky's statement about me being retarded, even if I'm half as smart as you are, I've likely had twice as long to get it right and am at least bright enough not to be blinded by my arrogance.

Where exactly did I call you retarded?

And how do you automatically know that this old lady has been screwed with too much by the cops? Even if she had somehow been the "victim" of real or imagined harassment, being the older and, theoretically, more mature person in the situation, you'd think she would know how to just accept the the ticket for now, and if she really feels she's been wronged, show up to her court date and fight it there. You don't fight with an officer on the side of the road. Seriously, you ought to know by now that that is not the way to get your way.

 

[8Mud]

I understand the strategic goals, to get people to slow down on a dangerous stretch of highway. I also understand the tactical methods. Write tickets, have people driving by see you writing tickets, have people see you patrolling that stretch of highway.
I had a buddy who got a new dog and asked for some advice about house breaking. I told him the tried and proved method is to swat him, stick his nose in it and put him outside. I came by a few days later and asked how the house breaking was going. He said not well, he crapped on the floor I beat the hell out of him, stuck his nose in it and threw him out the window. I asked did it work? He said no, now he craps on the floor, sticks his nose in it and jumps out the window.
I doubt tazing old ladies is the preferred method to achieve the desired results, maybe in the short term for that individual, but the consequences may last decades. The cure may be worse than the crime. It's likely anytime this old lady sees a Cop from now on, she wets herself or goes into a tirade about how screwed up the Police are.

 

[bigalpha]

You don't fight with an officer on the side of the road. Seriously, you ought to know by now that that is not the way to get your way.

:yelclap:

 

[bigalpha]

I re-read the account of what happened.

1. The officer told her she will be arrested if she doesn't sign.
2. She refuses to sign.
3. The officer tells her to get out so he can arrest her.
4. She gets out and walks almost in traffic.
5. She essentially refuses arrest by trying to get back into her vehicle.
6. She was warned of the impending ass-kicking she was about to receive.
7. She received it.

Not to mention she was all "OMG WTF?" until they released the video. Now she's like "OH HAI".

If the procedure is to arrest individuals who don't sign the ticket, then ALL of those who don't sign should be arrested. You can't let the great-granny off because she's old. She was rude, posed a potential danger to herself and those driving on the road. She had it coming.

 

[scottmcneal]

I re-read the account of what happened.

1. The officer told her she will be arrested if she doesn't sign.
2. She refuses to sign.
3. The officer tells her to get out so he can arrest her.
4. She gets out and walks almost in traffic.
5. She essentially refuses arrest by trying to get back into her vehicle.
6. She was warned of the impending ass-kicking she was about to receive.
7. She received it.

Not to mention she was all "OMG WTF?" until they released the video. Now she's like "OH HAI".

If the procedure is to arrest individuals who don't sign the ticket, then ALL of those who don't sign should be arrested. You can't let the great-granny off because she's old. She was rude, posed a potential danger to herself and those driving on the road. She had it coming.

A MEN..

 

[Jump This]

Is 'bitch slappin' illegal in Texas?
Even if its an old bitch?

 

[fscrig75]

"The law", we have a section of street here, speed limit sign (40 MPH) then 50 yards later a city limit sign (35 MPH) then 25 yards after that another 40 MPH sign. Radar trap, they set up right behind the city limit sign. I can drive down two blocks (from the radar trap) turn right and see guys dealing dope. I imagine you can repeat this scenario in most any city in the US. The people of this town decided to shut down the local Police station (not fund it anymore). They weren't doing anything about crime, mostly just harassing the citizens.
You couldn't lift (in print), much less carry the California law, even just the vehicle part. Times that, by every municipality and State, I doubt there is a single person on the planet who actually knows the "Law".
So you give some muscle brain a gun and three months training and expect him to use common sense. And apply something nobody knows and fewer actually understand, in a way that doesn't ferment rebellion.
Little old lady, 15 MPH over the limit, obviously excited, gets tazed for being mouthy. I guess if she took off running, shooting her in the back would be justified? Heck she might be Bin Laden in disguise.

Well let me guess what you do when you drive through that radar trap..........wait for it........... OBEY THE LAW. And as far as the drug dealer, what is he dealing? Certain drugs are legal in Germany, I know down in the shopping district in Frankfurt you can get hash in front of almost any shop there, Hapewache(sp) isn't it.
By your typical logic it's ok for the dealer to sell there. If he isn't bothering anyone or hurting anything let him do what he wants. But I guess the dealer is younger and so by your book he hasn't earned the right to ignore the laws he wants to, like you think the old lady was entitled to do.

Well since you believe that some "muscle brain" isn't smart enough to read a radar gun, who then is?
I mean point the gun at the suspected speeder, pull the trigger, read the read-out. Speed limit 45, actual speed 60. This isn't rocket science.
Obviously she didn't agree with the ticket. Signing the ticket isn't an admission of guilt. It is an acknowledgment that she received this ticket from a certain officer for a specific offense and that she has a certain amount of time to respond to the apropriate office to either A) Pay the ticket; or B) Take in front of the judge.

But no she felt entitled because of her age, her wealth, her status in the community whatever millions of reason she thought she was special and consistantly elevated the situation to a point were the cop couldn't allow it to go any further. The officer did not make the decision to use the taser, she made it for him. Her actions directly caused him to act in the manner in which he did.

"Obviously excited" is an understatement for what this lady was. You can spin it anyway you want, but for anyone who has watched the video knows exactly what she was acting like, a spoiled rotten bitch.

 

[Darky]

You couldn't lift (in print), much less carry the California law, even just the vehicle part. Times that, by every municipality and State, I doubt there is a single person on the planet who actually knows the "Law".
So you give some muscle brain a gun and three months training and expect him to use common sense. And apply something nobody knows and fewer actually understand, in a way that doesn't ferment rebellion.
Little old lady, 15 MPH over the limit, obviously excited, gets tazed for being mouthy. I guess if she took off running, shooting her in the back would be justified? Heck she might be Bin Laden in disguise.

If you can't figure out that when you see a sign saying speed limit 45 means you can travel at 45 mph, anything else is unlawful, you shouldn't be driving. Whatever the law regarding signing your ticket is (you must, or it doesn't matter), what benefit do you have by not signing? Is it worth prolonging the situation and possibly going to jail just to get your way? You see a cop who is on a power trip and expects to get his way because he wears a badge, I see an old lady who expects to get her way because she's old. Broken down to that level, we're arguing the same thing, just for different sides. We both agree that people who have whatever "arbitrary" sign of authority and demand respect because of it are wrong. The difference being, you choose to stand against the law and against the person who volunteered for one of the toughest jobs in America, whereas I choose to side against the one who merely managed to make it to 72 yrs of age.

And she was tazed for resisting arrest. Notice where he tried a couple of times to grab her wrist and cuff her and she wrenched her arm out of his grasp.

Regarding giving someone 3 months training and a gun and expecting them to uphold something no one knows and fewer can understand, our military men and women in general receive less training than that regarding their actual military training. Marine Corps Boot Camp is 3 months and we're sent to other countries with big guns. Navy is 9 weeks, Army is 12 weeks (I think, or does that include AIT?), Air Force is 6 weeks. As a military member you are expected to uphold the Geneva Convention, as well as whatever treaties, pacts, SOFAs, ROE, etc are in place for wherever in the world you are stationed. That means not only do you know American law, but also the law of any countries you're likely to be in (so you can comply), and all the various agreements we make with host countries.

They would likely have done the same in Berlin in 1939. Or shipped her off to a labor camp after pulling her gold teeth,
Remind me to avoid Texas. I may never get to visit the relatives in Young County, the place is just to dangerous.
Yeah, because expecting someone to obey a simple command, "get away from the road and sign the ticket" is comparable to Nazi Germany. Way to trivialize the deaths and suffering of millions of Jews.
I just think this Law and Order thing can be carried to extremes. There is a stretch of highway near Camp Pendleton in Cal. my Uncle died there with me in the back seat, always has been dangerous, always likely will be, no matter how many tickets have been handed out. I doubt tazing a little old lady is going to help any. I remember the Cop saying get away from here and go home, I was in shock and walking dazed around the wreck, i guess he assumed I was a rubber necker out sightseeing. I'm surprised I wasn't tazed for failing to follow instructions, I was five, but heck that's no excuse. One of my brothers died about five miles from the same spot.
Point is, was tazing the old lady necessary?
And by the way, I also remember watching a Cop (serious bad ass) driving off road (in the passengers seat) with his two year old son in his lap, with no seat belt on. I remember mentioning to him in a low key sort of way, dumb idea. A couple of minutes later the driver hit a pot hole he and his son hit the roof. I guess that's what you get when you put a minor mentality in a possition of authority, catastrophe waiting to happen.

So what you're saying is, a cognizant adult willfully and deliberately disregarding his orders and endanering herself, the police officer, and the drivers passing by is the same as a dazed 5 yr old? If the cop had known who you would grow up to be, he probably would've tased you, assuming they had even been invented...
And by the way, I also remember learning at a fairly early age that there are jackasses in life. Some of them will achieve their potential as a school janitor, others will seek out positions of authority. Seems to me your example of the cop with no seatbelt is more an example of an idiot with no seatbelt, who happens to be a cop. EDIT: And also, should the police just give up on writing tickets because people still speed? SHould they stop chasing down criminals after robbing 7-11 because somebody else will rob it later? I'm having a hard time following your logic.

 

[fscrig75]

we have a section of street here, speed limit sign (40 MPH) then 50 yards later a city limit sign (35 MPH) then 25 yards after that another 40 MPH sign.

This kept bothering me, I couldn't figure out where I've seen that before but now I've got....Sounds like a school zone to me. Is the 20KPH set up for specific hours? Say between 7am and 3pm, thats what they usually do now, make sure the speeders slow down when kids are likely to be there. But I guess its ok to roll through town at 100KPH.

SHould they stop chasing down criminals after robbing 7-11 because somebody else will rob it later?

Well if 7-11 would just give out their product for free then no one would rob them. Problem solved.

 

[Root Moose]

I don't know how much of that video has been edited out but by looking at it that cop comes off as being a real meathead. Great people skills.

 

[Darky]

You can see a lot of choppiness, but he does come off as a bit angry, but then you never know what was cut out of the video. However, even if he was an idiot, she still deserved the tasing, not for speeding, not for being mouthy, but as a means of bringing her into submission for resisting arrest.

 

[Root Moose]

You can see a lot of choppiness, but he does come off as a bit angry, but then you never know what was cut out of the video. However, even if he was an idiot, she still deserved the tasing, not for speeding, not for being mouthy, but as a means of bringing her into submission for resisting arrest.

I don't buy that.

That big gronk of a guy could easily subdue her. There is the issue of having a physical battle on the side of a busy highway but then how did they deal with these things before tasers?

I think the police forces are "embracing" these tasers way too easily. Sort of a way to not get their "hands dirty" as it were.

There is a bug fuss going on up here about a guy that was tased multiple times in an airport by the RCMP. The man died, tased something like 8 times IIRC (don't have the info in front of me). The public probably only gets half the story of what really went on but it certainly reads as completely unnecessary.

 

[Darky]

Yeah, I'd heard about that guy. And yes, he was tased multiple times, he had two tasers go off simultaneously according to the report I read. What you don't hear about are the hundreds or likely thousands of cases of people being tased with no ill effect other than the temporary immobilization that is meant to be caused.

As I've pointed earlier, let's see how easily and safely you can subdue a person, even a 72 yr old lady, without the risk of injury to either party. I sometimes hurt my wife while horsing around (no not like that ya sickos! ), and I'm trying very hard not to. Now imagine you're trying to subdue someone who is actively resisting. It would be way to easy to hurt her if it came down to a physical confrontation.