4wd's that seam oddly appealing.

[stroked88]

This is my flag, and I'm loyal to it and all that it represents. Period.
If the gov't were to abandon those principles, they would lose my loyalty, but the gov't can't change what Old Glory symbolizes; the the principles upon which our country was founded.
Our flag is a flag of the people, not of the government.
So yes, I suppose my loyalties are to a piece of fabric.






Who says I'm only talking about cars? It's pretty rare, but you can still find little things with "Made in the USA" printed on them, and I would gladly pay more for that.
But as far as cars go... there isn't one car made past 2000 that I like anyway




No, that's like going to the same church your entire life and never even putting a dime in the plate.

Our economy has gone to shit. If you're in the market for a vehicle anyway, the least you can do is buy an American car. There are plenty of American cars that can do everything your rice burner does.

i put plenty of change in the plate. any time i buy parts i try my hardest to buy made in the usa to support the economy, ive even returned parts for just that reason. but when it comes to a car that is a long time investment ( i use that term loosely) im going to buy something that is going to last and appeals to me. whether that be chevy ford dodge or toyota. i personally like toyotas due to the nice hp curve, decent gas mileage and ability to tow our trailer with ease. its a bonus that it is made in texas, by texans. sure some of the money goes over seas but it also supplies americans with jobs in this tough economy. toyota also will pay laid off employees to do local volunteer work or any kind of community service rather than just fire them. that was also a big factor.

 

[MaxxXJ]

No, that's like going to the same church your entire life and never even putting a dime in the plate.

Our economy has gone to shit. If you're in the market for a vehicle anyway, the least you can do is buy an American car. There are plenty of American cars that can do everything your rice burner does.

ok... now you said yourself, that our economy has gone to shit, what does that say about our quality of work? my dad has 160K on his 2000 GMC that he uses as a welding truck for work and he has gone thru 3 transmissions, whats that say about our quality of work? toyota is maybe primarily in the us and look how poor of quality their vehicles are.

just because you goto church doesnt mean you have to put money in the pastor's pocket(plate) and you dont have to goto church to know GOD, you can know GOD in the comfort of your own home simply by reading the bible. church is just a place to meet girls(joking) and conversate with others that share the same interest for GOD as you.

 

[stroked88]

ok... now you said yourself, that our economy has gone to shit, what does that say about our quality of work? my dad has 160K on his 2000 GMC that he uses as a welding truck for work and he has gone thru 3 transmissions, whats that say about our quality of work? toyota is maybe primarily in the us and look how poor of quality their vehicles are.

just because you goto church doesnt mean you have to put money in the pastor's pocket(plate) and you dont have to goto church to know GOD, you can know GOD in the comfort of your own home simply by reading the bible. church is just a place to meet girls(joking) and conversate with others that share the same interest for GOD as you.

their cars are actually pretty nice cars, that have the highest resale value of any other vehicle. the whole stuck throttle thing was simply blown out of proportion by the media, any one who has half a brain would know to either pop it in neutral or turn it off. government motors im sure has something to do with it being turned into such a big deal because they have also had throttles stick and was not nearly as exposed. less people die from throttles sticking in toyotas than people getting struck by lighting (no joke)

 

[xj-grin]

Mason you know where your loyalties lie, they are in what the flag is supposed to represent -- if you like sybolism, cool, its not my bag but we're talking about the same thing.

Buying things "made in the usa" in what is now an integrated global economy is somewhat naive. When Fords/Chevy's are made in Mexico using Canadian parts, and Toyotas are built in South Carolina using Japanese parts, the lines become so blurred its tough to follow. If you choose to buy inferior products just because they have a label printed "made in the USA", you are indeed sending a message -- your telling US manufacturers to go ahead and make something of lesser quality, we'll buy it anyways. I think our message should be to demand actual quality, with the expectation that well educated American companies will fill that void, or at least focus some of thier capital on supporting folks stateside with manufacturing jobs. I am undoubtedly a true believer in market economies, unfortunately there is little political will to allow them to work.

 

[MaxxXJ]

Buying things "made in the usa" in what is now an integrated global economy is somewhat naive. When Fords/Chevy's are made in Mexico using Canadian parts, and Toyotas are built in South Carolina using Japanese parts, the lines become so blurred its tough to follow. If you choose to buy inferior products just because they have a label printed "made in the USA", you are indeed sending a message -- your telling US manufacturers to go ahead and make something of lesser quality, we'll buy it anyways. I think our message should be to demand actual quality, with the expectation that well educated American companies will fill that void, or at least focus some of thier capital on supporting folks stateside with manufacturing jobs. I am undoubtedly a true believer in market economies, unfortunately there is little political will to allow them to work.

X2

with that being said, everyone needs to throw out their alpine,pioneer,sony etc stereo equipment or throw away any kind of household electronic that isnt made in the USA. throw away your clothes unless their made in the usa, throw away that very laptop or desktop unless its made in the usa, you cant really 100% avoid buying things that arent made in the usa...

i'll keep my yamaha reciever/ and full klipsche surround sound system... my LG blu ray player is made in the USA i think( but i only got it cuz it was 150 dollars)

 

[xjcase]

In a more topic related direction... I have always thought Unimogs are the end-all be-all of 4x4s, and oddly appealing to me

Although they are flippin HUGE in most cases, they seem super capable and I dream of owning one some day.

(red one only costs 90,000 euros!)

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Although they are flippin HUGE in most cases, they seem super capable and I dream of owning one some day.

Then why not get a mini-mog?

Personally, 'wheeling a Mog or Mini-mog is akin to using a 4wd agricultural tractor on the trails, but that's just me........

 

[hurley842002]

Personally, 'wheeling a Mog or Mini-mog is akin to using a 4wd agricultural tractor on the trails, but that's just me........

So was my International Scout II lol

 

[MaxxXJ]

if your going to get a mini mog why not just buy a rhino or rzr? get some lockers for it and big wheels and tires and call it a day =)

 

[stroked88]

if your going to get a mini mog why not just buy a rhino or rzr? get some lockers for it and big wheels and tires and call it a day =)

because mini mog>rhino or rzr

 

[MaxxXJ]

rzr is awesome though =) for the money you spend on a stock mini mog you could prolly have a fully built rzr with long travel etc.

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

Mason you know where your loyalties lie, they are in what the flag is supposed to represent -- if you like sybolism, cool, its not my bag but we're talking about the same thing.

Buying things "made in the usa" in what is now an integrated global economy is somewhat naive. When Fords/Chevy's are made in Mexico using Canadian parts, and Toyotas are built in South Carolina using Japanese parts, the lines become so blurred its tough to follow. If you choose to buy inferior products just because they have a label printed "made in the USA", you are indeed sending a message -- your telling US manufacturers to go ahead and make something of lesser quality, we'll buy it anyways. I think our message should be to demand actual quality, with the expectation that well educated American companies will fill that void, or at least focus some of thier capital on supporting folks stateside with manufacturing jobs. I am undoubtedly a true believer in market economies, unfortunately there is little political will to allow them to work.

It is not a quality issue anymore, it is a financial issue! We Americans want huge wages for less work! So, in a nutshell WE AMERICANS sold ourselves out to the cheap ass labor in other countries! My point is this....... The quality, for the most part, is just as good or better here in the USA and WE Americans really need to support business that are here in this country fighting to stay alive! Most manufacturing of products are foreign when it used to be domestic!! This is NOT the America our forefathers visioned.......... SOLD OUT to the cheapest bidder!! The only way to fix the problem is to buy American when you can! The popularity of this country is faultering and it is a matter of time before there are real global problems and AMERICA will be left out in the cold ........... with a long dead factory base to build jack shit..... About the only things on the job market these days are customer service jobs........ People need to wake the hell up before this nation is left holding an empty can looking for handouts!!!!!


:soapbox:

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

its even worse at the fact that people are stupid enough to buy cars that are not only fuel efficient but those damn foreign cars last longer, parts are cheaper, and look better! i dont care if my car is made overseas. im very happy knowing my car gets upwards of 42mpg on long trips, only cost 15000+tax 100% brand new. will more than likely last 300-400K miles, is cheap to fix and has unlimited available parts for it. and has an overall better resale value... in a sense its like my cherokee only in honda form =)

people need to stop looking at " made in america " and just get whats appealing to them.

so if you dont drive a usa made vehicle ur not american??

thats kind of like saying, if you dont goto church, you dont believe in GOD

Ignorance is bliss............. what are you going to do when the economy is bust and nobody but the filty rich can afford to drive around in a car that gets 42 miles to the gallon and lasts for ever( yeah right)........ support your country or you will not have one to enjoy your stupid foreign car in!!

 

[xj-grin]

It is not a quality issue anymore, it is a financial issue! We Americans want huge wages for less work! So, in a nutshell WE AMERICANS sold ourselves out to the cheap ass labor in other countries! My point is this....... The quality, for the most part, is just as good or better here in the USA and WE Americans really need to support business that are here in this country fighting to stay alive! Most manufacturing of products are foreign when it used to be domestic!! This is NOT the America our forefathers visioned.......... SOLD OUT to the cheapest bidder!! The only way to fix the problem is to buy American when you can! The popularity of this country is faultering and it is a matter of time before there are real global problems and AMERICA will be left out in the cold ........... with a long dead factory base to build jack shit..... About the only things on the job market these days are customer service jobs........ People need to wake the hell up before this nation is left holding an empty can looking for handouts!!!!!


:soapbox:

Love the enthusiasm, disagree with the conclusion. If you pay more for goods of the same quality simply because it says "made in USA", you are signaling the US market that it is OK to continue to pay high labor costs for goods, we're willing to overpay. If the US mfg industry is to be globally competitive, it must get the opposite signal -- you must be both quality and price competitive. Sometimes the best way to help your own manufacturing industry is to buy someone else's goods and teach them a lesson.

All of this is academic, of course, since the bottom line is Americans are (wisely) buying very little of anything, regardless of source, but instead stuffing their mattresses, buying ammo (sorry, mine's Russian-made), and hunkering down.:shocked:

 

[hurley842002]

All of this is academic, of course, since the bottom line is Americans are (wisely) buying very little of anything, regardless of source, but instead stuffing their mattresses, buying ammo (sorry, mine's Russian-made), and hunkering down.:shocked:

^^^ this for sure, my investments as of late have been in lots of lead, primers, and powder.

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

Love the enthusiasm, disagree with the conclusion. If you pay more for goods of the same quality simply because it says "made in USA", you are signaling the US market that it is OK to continue to pay high labor costs for goods, we're willing to overpay. If the US mfg industry is to be globally competitive, it must get the opposite signal -- you must be both quality and price competitive. Sometimes the best way to help your own manufacturing industry is to buy someone else's goods and teach them a lesson.

All of this is academic, of course, since the bottom line is Americans are (wisely) buying very little of anything, regardless of source, but instead stuffing their mattresses, buying ammo (sorry, mine's Russian-made), and hunkering down.:shocked:

But of course you disagree my friend. I think you and I have been disagreeing for the better part of 4 years now..... :wow: And again you make a valid point but I still stand firm in the belief that buying the other guys stuff will only destroy this nation, not teach it a lesson...... The only signal being sent to the US market is the one that MOST of us do not care who makes what! Sadly that is a VERY important factor in the stability of our economy. This great nation fought a world war on two fronts and WON because we had the manufacturing base to support it! The strength of a global market is only as strong as the global enviroment it resides in. If for instance there was another world war, our nation would depend on this socalled world market to supply the military................ STUPID!!!!!!!

Again I have to disagree, Americans are to far in debt to stuff anything in their mattresses..... and all that ammo people are buying will do them no good when someone more clever and sneaky comes up from behind and sticks a knife through them. I have a few guns but I prefer the blade and stealth! Do not be fooled into thinking this country is to strong to fail.......... Romans thought the same way and we all know what happend to them.............. :lecture:

 

[xj-grin]

But of course you disagree my friend. I think you and I have been disagreeing for the better part of 4 years now..... :wow: And again you make a valid point but I still stand firm in the belief that buying the other guys stuff will only destroy this nation, not teach it a lesson...... The only signal being sent to the US market is the one that MOST of us do not care who makes what! Sadly that is a VERY important factor in the stability of our economy. This great nation fought a world war on two fronts and WON because we had the manufacturing base to support it! The strength of a global market is only as strong as the global enviroment it resides in. If for instance there was another world war, our nation would depend on this socalled world market to supply the military................ STUPID!!!!!!!

Again I have to disagree, Americans are to far in debt to stuff anything in their mattresses..... and all that ammo people are buying will do them no good when someone more clever and sneaky comes up from behind and sticks a knife through them. I have a few guns but I prefer the blade and stealth! Do not be fooled into thinking this country is to strong to fail.......... Romans thought the same way and we all know what happend to them.............. :lecture:

Don't think I'm fooled that we can avoid the doom of Rome - I think we are already over the edge and don't understand that the fall to the abyss has begun. My children will likely live in a very different nation and world than I have, and I only hope to be able to teach them and others enough to make it a better one.

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

Don't think I'm fooled that we can avoid the doom of Rome - I think we are already over the edge and don't understand that the fall to the abyss has begun. My children will likely live in a very different nation and world than I have, and I only hope to be able to teach them and others enough to make it a better one.

I am concerned for our children, as they are certainly going to be living in a very different world than we are now! This Country has changed for the worse since I was a young boy! My Grandfather, a WWII vet (waist gunner on B17's), before he died said that he was more than ready to go because the Country he and many others fought and died for had gone to crap!! I did not grasp what he was saying until a little later in life...... these days there is no such thing as freedom here as we are told how to live our lives and get the shit taxed out of us! True freedom does not exist here! The strength of this country IS the middle class which by the way is going the way of the dodo bird! Here is an example of what I mean..... A man/woman works their whole life to buy a home and retire. After retirement things get difficult and they cannot pay their damn property tax...... so their home for which they worked for gets taken and sold to someone else for the taxes owed............. People for the most part are ignorant and do not understand what is happening around them. We the People is just a phrase that means nothing! If it were We the People, the laws of this Nation would reflect the will of the people and our elected leaders would fear that same will!! Instead the people fear the powers that be!! Government=Moral Police..............