Another one everyone should read

It would be nice if we could wait a while longer and see how things are going in CO before deciding if we should have this run or not but because of people’s schedules we can not.

Based on current conditions and predictions for the rest of the Summer I am going to call off the official run. I really hate to do it but I think it's the right thing to do. Safety must come first and I also don't think that it could be a run that would be up to par with other runs given current restrictions and the uncertainties of NF access.

I will probably still go out to CO in case anyone wants to meet up for an unofficial get together. Plans and trails will be on a day to day basis. I will start in the Taylor Park area providing it's open then probably head up towards Leadville and Breckenridge to scout sites of the next try for 's CO run. After that I'll probably head over to the San Juans for a short while then over to Moab depending on the weather.

If the state is shut down as some are calling for I may just continue heading west until I hit Tahoe. I've always wanted to do the Rubicon.


Bones
[img:6cd2059cc1]http://images.fotki.com/v4/photos/4/42106/114492/cinap1-vi.jpg[/img:6cd2059cc1]

I think it is the right thing to do. Nonetheless, here is a local update.

The big Hayman fire is currently under 70% containment and has not been in the major fire news for a week. In Woodland Park, which is five miles south of the current southeastern edge of the fire, is experiencing no smoke. Most evacuation orders are lifted. There are still no fires in the interior alpine mountain regions.

Skies are very hazy - it reminds me of a normal day back east in the summer when you can barely see the sky. This is from the Arizona fires. Many Colorado mountain spots have had smoke advisories from the AZ fires. This is from 500+ miles away, so you get an idea of how bad the AZ fire is right now. 480 square miles, and they think it will quadruple without weather help. From a weather forecast perspective, it looks like at least the eastern half of Colorado is starting to get more into a daily afternoon thunderstorm flow - hopefully a harbinger of the monsoon to come. Areas over the Hayman fire have had almost daily precip in normal afternoon storm paths.

As for Taylor Reservoir, I know the people who are managing the Taylor campgrounds. The parents of good friends of ours are staying up there all summer in that capacity, and we had a chance to talk to them this weekend. They had a recent small fire in Taylor, but it was extinguished. There are volunteers who carry permanently mounted water tanks on pickup trucks in this area - they were on the way before the fire, which was presumed started by lightening, was even reported. It was put out before causing any large scale damage. Propane stoves with on/off switches are still allowed. It is very dry - we heard that it would take 30 straight days of 2" of rain a day to get us back to normal levels. 60" of rain is the equivalent of two years of full snow pack.

Locally, a huge part of our forest is gone. But as long as erosion can be contained, next summer may be a spectacular local wildflower display as the process begins again. Two of our 4wd trails run in the middle of the burn area - it will be amazing to drive them if they reopen to public traffic.

Nay

A very difficult decision but definitely the correct one. 'ers want to see the Rocky Mountains in all their splendor, not a barren blackened moonscape. As of last night there was a 600 acre fire burning north of Gunnison with zero containment. CO is covered in smoke from the AZ fires.

I will still be available to lead trails on an informal basis. As it will not be a event, there is no invitation needed or given. If a bunch of my fellow Jeepers want to join me to run a few trails - they are welcome. I was thinking along Bones lines. Start in Taylor, head north run around Leadville, then Breckenridge.

I was actually thinking of doing the trifecta of CO double blacks, Mt Blanca, IronChest then Holy Cross. Followed by a trip to the playground in Kremmling if there is enough interest.

trifecta

Grant let me know when you want to hit them all sounds like a fun time I really want to see your rover on blanca or will you bring the jeep this time?
Led

Grant and Bones,

I think I'd still like to come to CO if some of us want to get together. I was actually thinking about the same thing that Grant mentioned, doing those major, well known trails, if some of us still got together. I've never been to CO, other than a trip to Denver many years ago, so I would still like to go.

I offered to possibly lead a trip the same week in the Sierra's, but if a group of us want to get together and try to run the trails that Grant suggested, I'd have to seriously consider it. I would enjoy a liesurely paced vacation with the chance to run those trails.

Grant, I assume there are plenty of good trail choices to work with depending on the conditions that exist when we're there, if we have a smaller group and a flexable schedule? I'd also still like to meet a few more XJ'ers in that area.

My vacation time is already set, so I assume we're talking about the same dates? I would be in CO on Monday late afternoon, 7-29, and I would need to be back home on Tues 8-6.

Decisions....decisions. :roll:

Richard G

Richard, those dates would suit me fine. If we have a manageable group ( 10 - 15 vehciles max.) and everyone is prepared to be flexible, we could run a bunch of trails. I am guessing that this group will be of the medium/harder trail variety. But there will be something for everyone. With a flexible group we can work around any potential closures that may exist at the time.

We would need a little planning to minimize between trail distances but we could do something like,

Mt Blanca, 2 days (sorry Led no Rover - Jaws will scratch the paint)
Iron Chest 1 day
Holy Cross 2 days ( must be during the week to avoid the crowds)
then either some trails around Breckenridge area to prepare for next year, or head to the Kremmling Playground, or head west to Montrose ( Die Trying) and Grand Junction (21 Rd)

We can easily fit in some of the "passes" as well, Mosquito, TinCup, Cumberland, etc. Expect to camp at least a night at Blanca and a night at Holy Cross, most other nights we can plan on being near a mountain town.

Let me know what you think.

Hey, this is what folks wanted from the start! Ditch the formality and hit the good stuff. What a way to see Colorado! :lol:

Nay

Nay you thinkin of wheeling that thing for a change :lol: sounds like I may need to take some more time off to see this you've been building forever be nice to see you on the trail again!
Led

Does this mean I don't have until Moab to get everything operational? Why not add the Indy trails in as a pre-Blanca. I volunteer Led to lead down the waterfalls...

Good leadership Bones - safety first!

As I look at the direction that these replies are heading, I think I will have to call the Teller County prosecutor and have him investigate some others regarding the Hayman fire, besides that criminally psychotic ranger.

Isn't it just "convenient" that you hardcore guys have now co-opted our little ride through the woods at the end of July and are now able to focus on "Nutso KrawlCO 2002!"

Hmmmmmm! Amazing what doors a little misguided campfire can open.

Oh, BTW Grant, "Cumberland Pass" as a potential destination, presumably for the non-HC crowd? Aren't we getting just a wee-bit condescending? Why not throw Monarch into the mix as well? You just know how scary those grades are with a semi on your butt!!

I'd pick on Furlong as well, but, that would just be mean. Poor sot has enough misery in his life already.

Nah Mike, Really Nutso would include
Independance trail network, No escape up Freedom allowed.
then the 3 double blacks,
Mt Blanca
Iron Chest
Holy Cross
followed by the UROC course at Kremmling
then to the west to Montrose - Die Trying or the ARCA course
then Rd 21

So instead of totally crazy I am only 1/2 nuts!

OK, OK Cumberland was a dig at all the flatlanders out there! But Webster, Redcone, Tincup, Mosquito are fun roads even if you do see the odd CO locals in their Subies. There are enough trails to split the group into two each day, one for difficult, one for medium/easy. We can meet each night and camp together, and socialize. The only trails this may present a problem is Blanca, and Holy Cross, both overnighters.

Hey Joe, didn't Led tell you he had trail tested that bad boy on Independance when he had to rescue Jacobs a couple weeks ago?

Performed very well, even if his idea of spring retention is to have his spotter hold the spring in place!!

Consider the CO Krawl a Moab pre-run, and get your XJ on the trail, that's my logic - or lack thereof.

:lol: :twisted:
Led

Yeah Grant, I've seen his abbreviated video of Indy about 6 times now. It makes me want to keep spectating down there...be more than happy to take pictures of you down there tho'

Small group or large, I would still be very wary going up something that is bone-dry, woodsy, popular, and with no escape routes (Iron Chest, HC). Blanca and Penrose are safer in that regard, Blanca less so. Fleeing up past treeline to escape fire is not something to count on.

Joe, that's how it is a majority of the time in the Sierra's, Out here we're so used to some sort of fire restrictions we don't give it much thought. Our "normal" summer fire restrictions in the Sequoia National Forest are being started a month earlier this summer because of all the fire fighters that are working in other states.....no open fires, no charcoal grills, Coleman type stoves only.

You can see smoke a very long way off, shouldn't be too hard to head in a good direction when you're in a vehicle. Last year on the Rubicon run there was a fire not too far from the trail, we watched the smoke as we were breaking camp the first morning to start the trail. Someone had an illiegal campfire, but we sent the first group out and went past it and by the time the second group got started the fire was out. No real reason for this story, other than maybe to say we always have to use our heads, but no sense running from a danger that probably won't ever materialize, and if it does we should have plenty of options on moving away from it even if it's heading above treeline.

Richard G

I agree with Richard -- I'd like to get at least a few of us together and make a go of this event to whatever degree we can. I've got the time off and reservations made so I'm in.
If we can't make firm plans ahead of time to be posted here, then lets all stay in touch back channel and make a meeting place and time in Colorado for the 31st so we can make trail plans together. Whatever it takes guys -- let's do this thing!

Troy "YELLAHEEP" Betka

I'm still sitting on the fence with this one. I have the week off, and I can go CO or CA. OK, I can live without a campfire and grill. But what about smoke? I hear that the smoke from AZ has spread to TX, and there are health warnings out regarding said smoke. How is it in CO now? I'd hate to get there and find a scene from Apoclypse Now.

The smoke is really not a factor anymore. The Hayman fire is mostly contained now and when I called the people at the campground/resort I'll be staying at, they said they never really got any smoke. For the most part, smoke shouldn't affect the trails or campsites. However, people with respiratory problems should be cautious according to the health officials here in Colorado.

People with respiratory problems are not supposed to be at high elevation anyway. It was smokey in the Springs yesterday. Could hardly see Pikes Peak again. Monsoon is supposed to start by next week. The rain forecast in the high country is improving week by week. The Arizona fire is a problem - when the wind blows from the Southwest you get smoke. Whether monsoon will tame it down or not is anybody's guess.

Nay

Hey guys, i realize this thread has come and gone, but my in-laws have been camping between taylor park and tincup and have only reported a light haze, and this was the middle of last week. We are going up the 19th, what rails are you all planning on running? WE've been to the area before, but did not spend enough time to run all the trails. What trails up there are MUST DOs?