What are you doing to your rig - the continuing saga

[KRONIK]

Well worn out heims will have play as well... Wouldn't be noticeable while parked....

they do not feel worn like the other heims that i have already replaced... but like i said, i may be removing it just to make sure...

 

[DutchVDub]

I understand there is a difference, and I'm sure its harder to attain death wobble in a FWD car running really wide but small diameter tires. I'm also not saying that you shouldn't fix the camber, just for the sake of tire wear that needs to be fixed.

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

Tire balance will not cause DW , however it can hilite an existing probem in your set up .

you keep telling yourself that ok..............

 

[1-tonxj]

you keep telling yourself that ok..............

If your suspension/steering components are set up correctly, and not wore out then an unbalanced wheel/tire is nothing more than mild tire oscillation ...if not then it can cause movement in your under-par components resulting in DW...If mildly unbalanced tires were the ROOT cause of DW then I think I would have experienced it by now since I think just maybe a 40 inch Bias ply Bogger is going to be less round and out of balance than a 33-35 RADIAL bfg or Goodyear ...I run the I-270 at 55-60 1 hand on wheel no sway bars no "DW"...DW is also not defined as mild whhel/tire oscillation if you're calling that DW then you don't know what DW is.

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

If your suspension/steering components are set up correctly, and not wore out then an unbalanced wheel/tire is nothing more than mild tire oscillation ...if not then it can cause movement in your under-par components resulting in DW...If mildly unbalanced tires were the ROOT cause of DW then I think I would have experienced it by now since I think just maybe a 40 inch Bias ply Bogger is going to be less round and out of balance than a 33-35 RADIAL bfg or Goodyear ...I run the I-270 at 55-60 1 hand on wheel no sway bars no "DW"...DW is also not defined as mild whhel/tire oscillation if you're calling that DW then you don't know what DW is.

The ROOT of the problem is the crossover steering design that many Jeeps have and a poorly balanced tire WILL cause DW...... thanks for the lesson in nothing!

 

[1-tonxj]

The ROOT of the problem is the crossover steering design that many Jeeps have and a poorly balanced tire WILL cause DW...... thanks for the lesson in nothing!

The recirculating ball set up is not the root cause...Silly folks who improperly modify it when lifting their vehicles cause those bad geometry issues . It works fine from the factory designed to run on the stock Jeep it came on ...I guess you would blame the d35 for performance issues running locked on 33-35s ,and not the fact it was never designed for that duty ?

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Gonna hafta agree with 'Raptor on this one.


........ yeah, go figure huh? :laugh:

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

Looks like I'm going to score the 9" from firelt. Now I need to find brakes for the axle...

 

[1-tonxj]

Gonna hafta agree with 'Raptor on this one.


........ yeah, go figure huh? :laugh:

Just keep clinging to tire balance as root cause of real DW ...And meanwhile I'll be driving my XJ to Denver for Cranes open house with 1 hand on the wheel rolling on what must be the worlds first perfectly balancing /round 40 boggers made by Interco...LOL...There's opinion then there is fact and fact is a properly set up steering/suspension will not develope true DW from mild out of balance tires if this were fact my XJ would be on a trailer everywhere it runs ...Sure out of balance tires shimmy,but that's not DW ,And if you have 5+ inch lift with stock steering you can't say it's set up that correctly ...You got opinion while I roll around on 39.5x18.00 of out of round non balancing Interco proof ,and that's fact not theory/opinion

 

[KRONIK]

Just keep clinging to tire balance as root cause of real DW ...And meanwhile I'll be driving my XJ to Denver for Cranes open house with 1 hand on the wheel rolling on what must be the worlds first perfectly balancing /round 40 boggers made by Interco...LOL...There's opinion then there is fact and fact is a properly set up steering/suspension will not develope true DW from mild out of balance tires if this were fact my XJ would be on a trailer everywhere it runs ...Sure out of balance tires shimmy,but that's not DW ,And if you have 5+ inch lift with stock steering you can't say it's set up that correctly ...You got opinion while I roll around on 39.5x18.00 of out of round non balancing Interco proof ,and that's fact not theory/opinion

my jeep is way beyond stock.
my steering, track bar set up, all that is fine.
nothing from the sliders down on my jeep is stock.
the design is properly set up.
so your theory may be true with your jeep but not mine.
i know what death wobble is and i have plenty of witnesses to say that it is not just a shimmy. it is death wobble. and right now nothing in my suspension/steering set up is causing it.
not trying to argue but your argument is completely false in this case.
if it were my set up causing the issue it would have started a long time ago and would be fixed by now because i have recently replaced heims, TRE, ball joints, etc etc. anything that could be worn out has been replaced.

 

[DutchVDub]

I have to agree here. Having spent a decade driving military trucks on completely unbalanced 54" tall Michelins and never experiencing death wobble in one I don't see an out of balance tire being the ONLY cause of death wobble. And ttrust me, those 5tons especially get some crazy wheel oscillation going on the interstate, but no death wobble. If there is a loose or worn out part, poor geometry between the panhard bar and drag link, and/or alignment issue then I could see tire oscillation being a contribting factor.

I've had death wobble on 32's caused by me simply not adjusting my caster correctly after installing a 4.5" lift. It took a week for it to kick in because my steering stabilizer was hiding it. Not having enough time to track down the issue before having to drive the Jeep all the way to Omaha I slapped on a 35$ Explorer ProComp HD steering stabilizer and made the trip all the way out to Omaha issue free. While there I found GoJeeps site and after having 3 different alignment shops give me a bunch of BS excuses as to why they couldn't align my Jeep or wanted to charge me more than double I learned how to do a proper alignment myself using a tape measure and angle finder.

I never got death wobble again, not on 4.5" and (properly balanced) 32" KM1's and not on 6.5" and (airsoft bb balanced) 36" bias ply Iroks.


Poor tire balance being a contributing factor I agreee on, being the only cause on the other hand I don't agree. There has to be some other issue (or combination of small issues) leading to the death wobble.

 

[xj-grin]

its almost always a combination, but of the three vehicles on which I have experienced death wobble (all inverted Y-crap-jeep-designed-steering, 2 of them lifted) tire balance has not only been a factor, but when the tires were balanced the problem went away. My conclusion has always been that it is the MAIN factor, though certainly steering design and worn components are usually in there too... In Cody's case, he's thrown parts at all the usualy culprits, and I'm betting that fixing the alignment, warped rotors AND tire balance, will get him rolling this time around...

 

[in4aride]

i say alignment and balance.

 

[jimgrms]

Nah its cause he killed thet toyota )))

 

[1-tonxj]

my jeep is way beyond stock.
my steering, track bar set up, all that is fine.
nothing from the sliders down on my jeep is stock.
the design is properly set up.
so your theory may be true with your jeep but not mine.
i know what death wobble is and i have plenty of witnesses to say that it is not just a shimmy. it is death wobble. and right now nothing in my suspension/steering set up is causing it.
not trying to argue but your argument is completely false in this case.
if it were my set up causing the issue it would have started a long time ago and would be fixed by now because i have recently replaced heims, TRE, ball joints, etc etc. anything that could be worn out has been replaced.

Just b/c you have not found the problem yet does not mean you don't have a problem you missed ... even loose joints in the C/A'S can let your axle walk and start clubblig up/down and tire balance just supplied the movement to do it...And I've seen your specs so I know you got good set up ,so I'd say keep looking...

As for tire balance just go to 4wp and buy 5 of the Equal bags for your tires ,which is probably like 4.oz a tire this constantly help balance your tires I run it in the Boggers since conventional methods are useless

 

[KRONIK]

some how i agree with everyone.
basically like grin said i have thrown parts at all the usual things first.
all that is left is the tire balance, warped rotors, camber issue and i will be getting an alignment. so with that being said, if this round of fixing doesnt solve the DW i will have to look deeper into other issues.

im not saying you are wrong, im just saying i have not had any issues before with the set up. its only when i am going straight down the road. it has a slight pull to the right, so when i barely pull to the left to keep it straight i get the start of a wobble around 45 to 50. if i hit a bump it starts violent DW.

before 45 and after 55 or 60 i dont feel any wobble.

 

[DutchVDub]

Well the speed thing definitely tends to lead me to think a tire balance issue is inducing the DW, but I still think there is something else allowing it to actually occur.

Have you tried jus simply rotating your tires from front to rear to see if that changes anything at all?

I wish you were closer to me Cody or that I'd had more time yesterday. I'd totally be down with verifying everything with you and doing a tape measure/angle finder alignment on your rig to see if that helps.

All the alignment shop is going to do is check your toe in/out and center your steering wheel. Unless you've got the right style of balljoints there is no camber adjustment and they normally don't bother with a caster adjustment either.

Making sure your axle is properly centered and your toe adjustment are easily done with a tape measure and a second set of hands.

Caster is easily done with an angle finder if you have a good known reference point to measure off of.

Camber can also be done easily enough with an angle finder but you would need ball joints that actually allow for that adjustment.

If all of your measurements are correct and every joint and bolt is tight and in good shape then you shouldn't have any issues.

 

[KRONIK]

Well the speed thing definitely tends to lead me to think a tire balance issue is inducing the DW, but I still think there is something else allowing it to actually occur.

Have you tried jus simply rotating your tires from front to rear to see if that changes anything at all?

I wish you were closer to me Cody or that I'd had more time yesterday. I'd totally be down with verifying everything with you and doing a tape measure/angle finder alignment on your rig to see if that helps.

i havent tried yet. although i need to..
i am going to do a few more thing to try and solve the issue. if not i will be posting up trying to find more answers.

i know for sure the tires are unbalanced.
i know for sure the rotors a warped.
and i know i need to get my alignment checked.....

so that is my current fix it list.

 

[SolarBell]

Reinstalled my transfer case after rebuilding it. Yay for no leaks.

Didn't help the high-speed (60+) vibes as much as I thought. Both driveshafts have been balanced in the last 6 months so that leaves my front diff. Crud.

 

[dannanw]

Got it done....almost