WF Bi##ch Thread

[Fore Wheeler]

did you pay attention in the drivers meeting before the runs?
they covered the "clear" and how only the leader and gunner are to pull out a stuck vehiclewhen the jimmy got stuck i remember hearing on the CB someone telling BOB to go ahead and that part of the group would catch up

this is not a true statement. Leaders/Gunners are to supervise the recovery, it would not make any sense to have only the Leaders/Gunners do the recovery. In a simple high center sitituation when very little 'recovery' is needed I don't feel there's need for supervision. Green trail leaves very little hard recovery, unlike Orange/Red trails where the recovery can be complicated and could incur possable harm to vehicles/people.

The Sat driver meeting took place in the blue enclosed trailer, CB channels were discussed.

On another note, it's important to get on line and ask questions BEFORE the event. Everything you need to know has been discussed in the WinterFest threads.

 

[REWSTER]

this is not a true statement.

Ehh, words :dunno:

 

[87manche]

I
Also, I'm a little honked off at the "tech inspection". I installed some tow-hooks, which are bolted to brackets that mount to the front of my subframe rails (sandwiched between them and the bumper mount brackets). My grill guard is mounted to the same brackets. For some reason, I was given quite a bit of grief about the way they were mounted, and told to "fix it" before coming back next year. My buddy has hooks mounted in EXACTLY THE SAME FASHION - the only difference is that he has a large bumper cover (was driving the stock Grand in the back), so they couldn't actually see the mounts. They told him he was "just fine".

I'm the one that questioned your hooks. It's not anything personal, but the stock bumper mounts are not adequate. This was all covered in great detail in the stickied threads about recovery, you need tie in plates. It doesn't matter if they're "sandwiched" or not, you're still relying on 6 bolts through some 16Ga sheetmetal.
I did not tech your buddies grand, but if his hooks were mounted the same way I would have questioned them as well, if he was the WJ I was under the impression that they were factory hooks, in which case they would have been tied in with brackets.

We do the best we can for a bunch of people that show up and get this done. The event has more than doubled in size in the last two years, there have been some growing pains and we're working things out, hence this thread.

I hope that we see you next year.

 

[BOB]

00XJ49, FYI, everything discussed at the Drivers Meeting is "reminders" of what is covered in detail on the Winterfest Threads. As the Green Trail leader, I made every attempt to put exerienced drivers intertwined with non-experienced drivers. When we make an occasional stop we expect everyone to socialize and get to know each other. This is where you learn...on the trail...not at a Drivers meeting. I too hope you return next year. Spend some time on our Forums and get to know us more.

BOB

 

[00XJ49]

...if he was the WJ I was under the impression that they were factory hooks, in which case they would have been tied in with brackets.

Mine are tied in the same way... I don't understand the difference (not still fuming, I want to understand so I can "fix it"). Another buddy (regular on here, invited me to to the event) showed me some brackets that he had, but the only difference seeme to be that they extended further back along the subrame (another 18" maybe), and were bolted in a couple more places along the way.

Yes, the grill guard moved, but that's because you were applying a torque at ~2' out from the mounting point. The hooks are right at the mounting point, so the torsion applied to the bolts in the subframe wouldn't have been as bad (granted it's a much larger force pulling out a vehicle then having a guy jump up and down, but because it's closer in to the mounting point, the torque is greatly reduced).

Show me on here where the "clear" calling is mentioned, and where the CB channels are listed, and I'll eat those words.

I didn't know MWC stood for Mid-West Chapter until today. The only references I knew over the weekend were "Winterfest" and "".

Showed up around 9:30 on Saturday, didn't hear or see anything about driver's meeting (wasn't mentioned when I went to the people at the table in the trailer and asked where the green line-up was and what CB channel - lady who helped me had to call on the 2-way to find out herself).

Like I said, I had a blast, and plan on returning (hopefully with "fixed" recovery points), I just think the execution could have been administered ALOT better. Make a pamphlet for everyone to read that outlines EVERYTHING. As a newbie, I knew NOTHING (and alot of you probably think that's how much I still know, har har).

 

[00XJ49]

On another note, it's important to get on line and ask questions BEFORE the event. Everything you need to know has been discussed in the WinterFest threads.

Alot of this stuff is questions I didn't even know to ask.

 

[FlexdXJ]

Missed the driver's meeting on Friday - I was "late". And I didn't see a driver's meeting anywhere on Saturday.

I don't recall anyone telling Bob to go ahead - might have been outside the Jeep at that point.

And if only the lead and tail were supposed to pull out stuck vehicles, how come I was asked by a green hoodie to pull Xin off a high-side on Friday?

I was gunning for Bob friday. I wouldn't have told him to keep going. They aren't supposed to pull out the stuck vehicle, they just have to supervise the recovery. Saturday, the drivers meeting was at the same truck/trailer as it was on friday. Tyler announced that there would be a drivers meeting about 10 minutes beforehand. There were 4 green hoodies on fridays green trail run, Nate and Josh were just mixed in with the pack and I have no doubt in my mind that they know what they are doing when it comes to recovering vehicles.

 

[ChiXJeff]

I was tailgunning for BOB on Saturday. It made no sense for the main group to hold up while we extracted the K5, down in the creek it was already turning into a traffic jam. Between the K5 and the 3 XJs, there were at least 2 winches as well as assorted recovery straps and pulleys.

 

[99SJ_Ex]

I was tailgunning for BOB on Saturday. It made no sense for the main group to hold up while we extracted the K5, down in the creek it was already turning into a traffic jam. Between the K5 and the 3 XJs, there were at least 2 winches as well as assorted recovery straps and pulleys.

Off topic, but I didn't know that was you Jeff... Would have been nice to meet you in person, finally... (I'm sure we did but didn't realize it...)

Resume Please!

 

[FlexdXJ]

Off topic, but I didn't know that was you Jeff... Would have been nice to meet you in person, finally... (I'm sure we did but didn't realize it...)

Resume Please!

He was the other guy missing a tooth!

 

[BOB]

I was gunning for Bob friday. I wouldn't have told him to keep going. They aren't supposed to pull out the stuck vehicle, they just have to supervise the recovery. Saturday, the drivers meeting was at the same truck/trailer as it was on friday. Tyler announced that there would be a drivers meeting about 10 minutes beforehand. There were 4 green hoodies on fridays green trail run, Nate and Josh were just mixed in with the pack and I have no doubt in my mind that they know what they are doing when it comes to recovering vehicles.

Hey Aaron, sorry I missed your name on my "thank you" to my tail-gunners. Thanks for your help.

00XJ49 was late and ill prepared and it is all our fault. No amount of discussion will change his mind.

There were many noobs that prepared for this event months ahead of time. They seemed to find the "administration" of it all just fine.

BOB

 

[99SJ_Ex]

Hey Aaron, sorry I missed your name on my "thank you" to my tail-gunners. Thanks for your help.

00XJ49 was late and ill prepared and it is all our fault. No amount of discussion will change his mind.

There were many noobs that prepared for this event months ahead of time. They seemed to find the "administration" of it all just fine.

BOB

X2 (Not trying to bash him)


Bob, I just want to say thanks again for another great WF on green trail and for hanging out with my father and I, we had loads of fun.

 

[Pat]

00XJ49 was late and ill prepared and it is all our fault. No amount of discussion will change his mind.

There were many noobs that prepared for this event months ahead of time. They seemed to find the "administration" of it all just fine.

BOB

Well said.

Maybe the government can make him a "pamphlet."

 

[John D]

Mine are tied in the same way... I don't understand the difference (not still fuming, I want to understand so I can "fix it"). Another buddy (regular on here, invited me to to the event) showed me some brackets that he had, but the only difference seeme to be that they extended further back along the subrame (another 18" maybe), and were bolted in a couple more places along the way.

I think you answered your own question here, that IS the difference.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1046474
This is something that Dan put together this year for new guys, I'm sure it will happen again next year so make sure sign up for it.

 

[Fore Wheeler]

click this for everything we've been talking about

 

[REWSTER]

There were many noobs that prepared for this event months ahead of time. They seemed to find the "administration" of it all just fine.

Truth, i had a newb with me that bought his XJ on monday feb.28th by friday Mar.4th he had a class 2 hitch,front hooks that tie in to the "frame", CB radio, first aid kit,tow strap, and fire extinguisher. he passed tech with no problems

 

[TheBlackSheep]

Off topic, but I didn't know that was you Jeff... Would have been nice to meet you in person, finally... (I'm sure we did but didn't realize it...)

Resume Please!

Jeff is a very nice person (along with everyone else I met). I had a great time at the back of the pack and talking with him a couple times.

It doesn't matter if they're "sandwiched" or not, you're still relying on 6 bolts through some 16Ga sheetmetal. I did not tech your buddies grand, but if his hooks were mounted the same way I would have questioned them as well, if he was the WJ I was under the impression that they were factory hooks, in which case they would have been tied in with brackets.

http://www.wjjeeps.com/thooks_front_plate.jpg
http://www.wjjeeps.com/thooks_front_part.jpg

Yes, my tow hooks are factory tow hooks. "Tied in with brackets" is a term that I would use loosely (see picture form link above). It's more like tied in with 3 bolts. That vertical sheet metal, is the bumper. As you can see, it's tied in with 3 bolts (third bolt is off to the left). The only real difference I see is that mine is stock, so it passed w/out question.

If that's not acceptable for WF, let me know. I know this isn't a WJ forum, but telling me the correct way to fix it would also help (maybe it's the same as the XJ, dunno). I understand these rules are NOT to omit people from the fun. They are there to protect people AND the rig. I would be more than happy to make the necessary changes to protect my rig from damage while being recovered.

My only grievance with the weekend is the confusion. Like was said earlier, the times are fluid. While that's ok, it adds confusion. I think it would help to stick to a little more strict time table. I'm not saying you should close registration at 10:00 and if someone arrives at 10:01 you turn them away. I'm not even saying that if someone arrives 1 hour late they should be turned away. I believe Shin (spelling?) arrived late on the first day and was able to hook up w/ the green group. I think it's great that this was able to happen. But when someone arrives late, one of the trail leaders should give them a quick 2 minute briefing on proper procedures for the trail (ie, clear when you're over objects, always keep the Jeep behind you in view). A little more ridged time table allows people to know where things are and not be confused.

For me any my buddy, the confusion started in that we arrived to register at 10, pretty much the deadline. Once we were registered we rushed down, were thrown inline, inspected, and told to go. If someone would have spent 5 minutes to give us the proper "training" (since we were apparently late), it would have helped immensely. Then we could have caught up to the back of the group if they had left on schedule. I'm not saying we're not to blame here. If we showed up early (I will next year), we would have gotten the proper directions. But this would help new [late] people, like myself.

I also think you should include a more detailed schedule. Simply stating that registration starts at 9 and then trail runs begin at 10:30 doesn't let anyone know about the time for tech inspection or drivers meeting. If that had been on the schedule, I probably would have arrived a little earlier. But being a new person, I thought it would be register and go. I've gone offroading while hunting (ie, no drivers meeting or inspection), but never at an organize meeting like this. So this was something that was overlooked on my part.

My other question is this, were the Jeeps from day 2 even inspected? I see a LOT of pictures from day 2 where the Jeeps don’t have any inspection stickers in the window. It seems like the inspection was a big deal (as it should be). But then no one really cared on day 2 when there were clearly more Jeeps that showed up. Inspection should be a big deal. But it should also be just as big of a deal on the second day. Anyone without an “Inspection Passed” sticker in the windshield should have been inspected and given one to display.

In the end, this is a little long winded. I'm not saying I'm not to blame for the confusion I caused by being late. But I honestly believe it's good information that can help to make the event more friendly and less confusing to new people. Take it or leave it. I had a great time and this is just a little nitpicking in the scheme of things. I'll probably be back next year b/c I like the atmosphere and had a great time. Hopefully I'll have the "BlackSheep" slightly lifted so I don't drag the cross member over the top of every hill.

 

[00XJ49]

00XJ49 was late and ill prepared and it is all our fault. No amount of discussion will change his mind.

There were many noobs that prepared for this event months ahead of time. They seemed to find the "administration" of it all just fine.

BOB

You'll find I respond extremely well to sarcasm...

I PAID to attend this event because I believed it would be well-coordinated, educational (to me), and fun. It got the last two, but the first is laughable. I'll admit that, had I shown up early, I would have dodged most, if not all the grief, but I'm not taking the entire blame.

As for all the other noobs, I just complain more.

I think you answered your own question here, that IS the difference.

So, 4 more bolts through the same 16ga sheet metal makes that much difference?

Maybe the government can make him a "pamphlet."

Way to turn that one around on me...

 

[Rev Den]

The difference is all in the mounting, while I will not get into it here, factory hooks are acceptable as-is, take a good look at those pictures and see the "frame" structure.

The XJ MUST have hooks that spread the load back into the "frame" better then the stock bumper, check out the factory XJ hook mounts for ideas.

I have never....never....had a brush guard move when I pull on it, ever. I admit that I am not light, but dude....your hooks were mounted to the guard, so movement is movement. Looking back, I should have failed it.

Maybe I was wrong in my timing and you missed the meeting, if so, bummer. You still could have asked ANYONE in your group, your leader, your gunner, etc. The group did not move out until you were in it, the gunner was behind you.

A simple "What should I know?" would have saved you a bunch of worry.

Any vehicle that was part of Winterfest had a sticker....no sticker, they were not part of our group.

This topic has been covered, if you wish to continue it please start a new thread in the MWC (Midwest Chapter) Forum.

Rev

 

[ChiXJeff]

Jeff is a very nice person (along with everyone else I met). I had a great time at the back of the pack and talking with him a couple times.

Nice to meet you. The tail end of BOB's Green gang on Saturday was a good bunch of folks.

<chuckle> Tell that to the developers here. They're convinced that I'm evil incarnate, and very difficult to deal with.