weight distribution...

Action Fab

Action Fab

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Hot Springs, AR.
I figure you guys will probably know best. I am ramping up to begine work on my MJ. It's going to be used to test my new Mid Arm suspension system. I am in Arkansas so Jeepspeed isn't something I am to fimiliar with. I have decided on my ride hight and spring/shock selection already. I will stay spring under with new factory leafs, pull over load, ORS traction bar. 2.0x10 King Air Shocks, FOA 2.0x2 air bumps with 1.75 Teraflex shackle. Front will be ORS Mid Arm 3 link, 7075-T6 links, 7075-T6 crossover, CC784 coils, 2.0x10 King Air Shocks, FOA 2.0x2 air bumps. I will be using the truck to showcase all my new products and thus it will have an ORS winch bumper fitted with a non integraed winch and synthetic rope. It will have one of my new all noid cage kits and of corse my frame stiffeners with flat belly.

My question is... what are you guys doing to ransfer weight to the rear of your Jeepspeeds to make them fly flat... My MJ is super nose heavy and all of my products are disigned with weight in mind... my stubby bumpers are only 37lbs for instance. I will probably run a flat dash in the truck... but where else do you guys loose nose weight? I will be using this for more crawling than pre-running but I want to put the truck through its paces before releasing my Mid Arm to the market. I will add a second spair to the bed... mainly for looks but to also add easly removable weight.

I am a huge weight nut... I would much rather loose nose weight than add bed weight. I am thinking that I could add a glass hood, strip dash, door pannels, relocate batt., but byond that there isn't much else to loose or move... I will be running an HP30 front and an 8.8 rear along with a rear bumper and bed mounted fuel cell. I'm swaping in a 96 4.0HO backed by an AW4 and 231.

Anyone have any other ideas to get some weigh transfered with out just "weigth jacking" the rear.?
 
tires, batteries, and fuel cell are the main weight components toward the rear of the jeep. Fiberglass hood and fenders help a very small amount to loose weight up front. Also most jeepspeeds run a 2wd beam up front to loose some weight up front. I know this wont all work for you but they are ideas.
 
sjstar said:
Fiberglass hood and fenders help a very small amount to loose weight up front. Also most jeepspeeds run a 2wd beam up front to loose some weight up front. I know this wont all work for you but they are ideas.
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You sure about that? I know its not 200lbs but a stock hood weighs considerably more than a glass "race" hood. Ask Grimm. The thing to keep in mind is like they do with motorcycles.....take it off anywhere you can to cut weight. grams add up to ounces and ounces add up to pounds quicker than you think.
 
silverslk said:
You sure about that? I know its not 200lbs but a stock hood weighs considerably more than a glass "race" hood. Ask Grimm. The thing to keep in mind is like they do with motorcycles.....take it off anywhere you can to cut weight. grams add up to ounces and ounces add up to pounds quicker than you think.
Click to expand...

You are right every ounce counts.
 
Jeepspeeds don't really lose weight in the front so much as gain weight everywhere else. :D
Battery always moves back(sometimes doubled up)
You can lose 20-30lb going to fiberglass hood/fenders. You can get fiberglass for the bed sides too, although you're not trying to loose weight back there.
Fuel cell at the rear doesn't work so well(on the MJ anyway) While it moves a lot of weight back, it also makes for a changing center of gravity as you use fuel.

One really radical solution me and a buddy have been kicking around is a built, high-compression 2.5L 4-cylinder. That would cut 100-150Lb off the nose, all over/in front of the front axle. Probably can't get a 4cyl. up to the 175-190hp of the 4.0L but 160hp and a substantially lighter nose might be do-able and faster.

Since you're not building to a rule book, consider a Chrysler V-6 or V-8 engine swap. Yep! Even a 5.2/5.7L weighs less then a 4.0, and as the motor is shorter(again, even the -8), it's less weight, and sitting further back in the chassis.
 
tbburg said:
One really radical solution me and a buddy have been kicking around is a built, high-compression 2.5L 4-cylinder. That would cut 100-150Lb off the nose, all over/in front of the front axle. Probably can't get a 4cyl. up to the 175-190hp of the 4.0L but 160hp and a substantially lighter nose might be do-able and faster.
.
Click to expand...

though that wont work for me you are on the right road... Look at the 2.4's. they used in the SRT4 Neons... lots of those pushing over 300bhp in DD'ers. I have a 4cyl. TJ so I have plaid with the same thoughts.

-Chris.
 
You can always follow the mud bogger example and move the radiator to the rear as well. I don't know how much water/coolant is held in a radiator but a gallon of water is about 8 pounds. Move the radiator to the rear with the fans and you'll move a decent 20 lbs (at least) from the front and add it to the center, if you put it right behind the cab.
 
XJ Eric said:
You can always follow the mud bogger example and move the radiator to the rear as well. I don't know how much water/coolant is held in a radiator but a gallon of water is about 8 pounds. Move the radiator to the rear with the fans and you'll move a decent 20 lbs (at least) from the front and add it to the center, if you put it right behind the cab.
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Yah... I'll pass on that... I think I'll just weight jack when I want to do any pre-running.
 
Action Fab said:
though that wont work for me you are on the right road... Look at the 2.4's. they used in the SRT4 Neons...
Click to expand...
We can't use the Neon engine. 'Rule book limited to stock block, no turbo/supercharger allowed(even if factory equipped) We can only use the 2.5, or 4.0.
 
tbburg said:
Jeepspeeds don't really lose weight in the front so much as gain weight everywhere else. :D
Click to expand...

I think this is a big part of it. I would check out the KOH rigs for comparison. If anyone knows about making a crawler fast it's them.

There's a good chance I'm just talking out my ass here, but for what you're talking about weight distribution probably matters less than you think. Drop the truck level from 100 ft and the nose will dip just a little vs. the bed. From 10 ft it wouldn't be noticeable. I think the main reason for rear weight bias is that it's a lot easier to get big travel in the non-steering axle, and you want the weight where you have travel to handle it.

Get your springs/shocks/bumps right and I bet you'll do pretty good, even if it's nose heavy. Stiff up front and soft in the back. Don't be like this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVkWA0uoYC8&feature=feedlik

ps. Nice to see another arkie here! What's the deal with your mid-arm setup? I liked your bumper, saw it on ar. crawlers.
 
srimes said:
ps. Nice to see another arkie here! What's the deal with your mid-arm setup? I liked your bumper, saw it on ar. crawlers.
Click to expand...

Mid arm is beween a Long and short.

Long arms have to much leaverage on the body... Causes exesive unloading, torque flex ext.

Short arm doesn't alow enough travel with out exesive flex steer. It also uses the poor factory geometry and weak factory mounts.

My suspension will have shorter 22"-24" arms with beafy mounts that are moved up into the frame rails and will use a true 3 link with panard. The upper frame side mount will be pushed up into the passenger floor board. The skid plate will be tucked up in the frame rails and there will be no mounts hanging down to catch on. Thats all I will tell you for now.

-Chris.
 
I think doing the 4cyl would have its ups and downs! You can gain more power every where sure but the biggest gains will be up in the rpm...May/may not be great for racing if you aren't at those rpms.

I agree, loose as much as possible! And then add some to the rear..make a heavier bumper..use thicker wall tubing..you'd never see the differences in person but it'd add some weight..
 
anyone lighten up a stock hood before? Is there sections of the support that could be eliminated or just lightened?
 
With my truck, high RPM isn't really a problem. 4.88 gears, 31" tires, no overdrive. It's more like something you live with. We want to run in a stock class, and are severely limited as to what we can reinforce.(almost nothing on the chassis) Loosing weight up front helps the nose structure survive, which is more important to us then the power loss.
sjstar said:
anyone lighten up a stock hood before? Is there sections of the support that could be eliminated or just lightened?
Click to expand...
You could run down all the supports with a small(1" or less) hole saw, leaving about 1/2-3/4" between holes. As the hood hinges aren't sprung, and there are no gas tubes, it only has to support it's weight on a the prop rod. 'Problem is the whole support only weighs 8-10 lbs. 'Might be worth doing. 'Probably can't loose more then 5lb, but it it is 5lb less. 'Have to look into that. Thanks. :thumbup:
 
tbburg said:
With my truck, high RPM isn't really a problem. 4.88 gears, 31" tires, no overdrive. It's more like something you live with. We want to run in a stock class, and are severely limited as to what we can reinforce.(almost nothing on the chassis) Loosing weight up front helps the nose structure survive, which is more important to us then the power loss.
You could run down all the supports with a small(1" or less) hole saw, leaving about 1/2-3/4" between holes. As the hood hinges aren't sprung, and there are no gas tubes, it only has to support it's weight on a the prop rod. 'Problem is the whole support only weighs 8-10 lbs. 'Might be worth doing. 'Probably can't loose more then 5lb, but it it is 5lb less. 'Have to look into that. Thanks. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

yea i will have to look into that too, thanks
 
sjstar said:
anyone lighten up a stock hood before? Is there sections of the support that could be eliminated or just lightened?
Click to expand...

I got my 2wd '95 2dr (4.0L with AW4) down to 2,677 lbs. We gutted everything we could while keeping it looking like a complete car. Biggest weight savings were complete AC system, gutted interior and wiring harness, moved the battery behind the front seats and gutted stock hood. I'm not sure how much the complete stock hood weighs with hinges but the outer skin weighs very little. We lost more than 60% of the complete weight for sure.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/2010-race-jeep-cherokee-build/27247/page1/
 
88JeepXJ said:
I got my 2wd '95 2dr (4.0L with AW4) down to 2,677 lbs. We gutted everything we could while keeping it looking like a complete car. Biggest weight savings were complete AC system, gutted interior and wiring harness, moved the battery behind the front seats and gutted stock hood. I'm not sure how much the complete stock hood weighs with hinges but the outer skin weighs very little. We lost more than 60% of the complete weight for sure.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/2010-race-jeep-cherokee-build/27247/page1/
Click to expand...

Nice article! I'm a big believer in weight loss as a method to improving performance.
 
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