**UPDATED** HHO GAS....

[XJ Stryker]

25mpg i prolly missed it but what were you getting prior, I have a 87 renix and it gets 19-20 steady doesn't seem like a huge increase for all the clutter.

Oh yeah I ain't trying to poop on this thread.

 

[Ecomike]

I have not added any distilled water or baking soda to the jars in 3 weeks , since then I have put on about 1200 miles . I have not modified any of the sensors at all . Still pulling 13 amps cold and 17 amps when warmed up . The unit never overheats . As far as the color of the water , that is a normal reaction .

Are you sure it is working? Is the check valve opening? No water added in 1200 miles does not sound right. I see from your pictures that you have them wired in parallel, rather than in series, so each cell is full getting full voltage, is there a reason you did not wire them in series?

 

[Ecomike]

The most important thing is to have everything totaly vac tight . And if you dont use a check valve between the generator and the bubbler all of the water in the bubbler will be pulled back into the generator when you shut the engine off .

X2 on the vac tight need.

Very good point on the check valve, another good reason to add one.

 

[SeansBlueXJ]

25mpg i prolly missed it but what were you getting prior, I have a 87 renix and it gets 19-20 steady doesn't seem like a huge increase for all the clutter.

You got to figure that's a 25%ish increase in mpg. Not bad I say, that's an extra 85 miles on a tank, asuming you drain 17 gal between fillups. or another 4.25 gal vs the old milage, which is roughly $15-20 per tank savings dependent on "market" price of gasoline.

If it is indeed working as advertised :thumbup: . Plus you figure the clutter is due to it's temporary/experimental setup, im sure if you wanted to permanently set this up it could be better placed.

Just my $0.02

 

[REPOXP777]

Are you sure it is working? Is the check valve opening? No water added in 1200 miles does not sound right. I see from your pictures that you have them wired in parallel, rather than in series, so each cell is full getting full voltage, is there a reason you did not wire them in series?

It is putting out about 1.5 LPM , that is measured after it goes through the check valve into the bubbler out and into a 5 gallon bucket with a submerged 2 liter bottle setup to measure the LPM . The first unit I made only produced 200 mililiters per minute . Keep in mind that this is a work Jeep that has to be reliable everyday , lots of stop and go driving , 400 to 600 miles per week and the A/C NEVER gets turned off . As far as using water , when I had the single cell up in the engine compartment I used about half an inch of water a day . Yes all four cells are getting a full 12 volts ( 13.87 when engine is running ) . My original idea was to wire it so the voltage would be spread out between the cells , and I did so at first , however gas production fell by 50 percent .If you can keep the heat down with propper electrode spacing and not having it next to a 210 F engine you will not use alot of water . I have had alot of people ask me about the location of the generator , the only reason that it is in the cabin of the vehicle is that there is no where under the hood to fit it , Plus I get ther benifit of a cooler and expandable area to experiment with . Do I like the extra clutter ? NO . But I like getting 25 MPG (485-500) miles per tank ( 20 gall ) as compared to 360 miles per tank that I got for the last 4 years that I have owned this Renix Jeep . I know that alot of you are getting 20 MPG in your jeep just the way it is and that is very good . However the most I ever got from a very well tuned Renix motor was 18 MPG tops with mixed mostly city stop and go driving . I do plan to keep experimenting and trying diff cell configeration with the same old work horse . Good luck to all .

 

[Ecomike]

It is putting out about 1.5 LPM , that is measured after it goes through the check valve into the bubbler out and into a 5 gallon bucket with a submerged 2 liter bottle setup to measure the LPM . The first unit I made only produced 200 mililiters per minute . Keep in mind that this is a work Jeep that has to be reliable everyday , lots of stop and go driving , 400 to 600 miles per week and the A/C NEVER gets turned off . As far as using water , when I had the single cell up in the engine compartment I used about half an inch of water a day . Yes all four cells are getting a full 12 volts ( 13.87 when engine is running ) . My original idea was to wire it so the voltage would be spread out between the cells , and I did so at first , however gas production fell by 50 percent .If you can keep the heat down with propper electrode spacing and not having it next to a 210 F engine you will not use alot of water . I have had alot of people ask me about the location of the generator , the only reason that it is in the cabin of the vehicle is that there is no where under the hood to fit it , Plus I get ther benifit of a cooler and expandable area to experiment with . Do I like the extra clutter ? NO . But I like getting 25 MPG (485-500) miles per tank ( 20 gall ) as compared to 360 miles per tank that I got for the last 4 years that I have owned this Renix Jeep . I know that alot of you are getting 20 MPG in your jeep just the way it is and that is very good . However the most I ever got from a very well tuned Renix motor was 18 MPG tops with mixed mostly city stop and go driving . I do plan to keep experimenting and trying diff cell configeration with the same old work horse . Good luck to all .

What is your electrode spacing and what are you using for electrodes?

 

[REPOXP777]

What is your electrode spacing and what are you using for electrodes?

My electode spacing 1/16 - 1/8 (depending on the heating and cooling of the cell) . Each electrode is made up of one 6 inch long SS bolt , ten SS nuts , ten SS body washers . The diameter of the bolt is 3/8 . Stainlees Steel is a must . Each electrode is put together in this order . Thread 1 nut all the way down , add washer , add nut and so on , and so on . The stainless steel must be prepped before and after assembling the parts . To prep the surface of the SS use sand paper . Sand the surface up and down , then sand side to side . This will make a cross sanding pattern in the surface of the SS and will aide in the production of oxyhydrogen ( this is a very important step) . Because of the quality and the thickness of the SS it will last a long time and be less of a chore to maintain .

 

[PuddinHead]

Winter is fast approaching and I know that baking soda is a 'salt' which lowers the freezing point of water, but just how low do the temps have to get before the ole HHO generator freezes up? Will additional baking soda need to be added? Just wondering if anyone has stuffed a solution of electrolyte (1 quart of H2O and 1 tablespoon of b. soda) into the freezer to see at what temp it freezes, if it freezes?

 

[REPOXP777]

I will never have to worry about it freezing where I live (way south) . If I lived up north I would use a electric battery blanket .

 

[jeepman121]

Winter is fast approaching and I know that baking soda is a 'salt' which lowers the freezing point of water, but just how low do the temps have to get before the ole HHO generator freezes up? Will additional baking soda need to be added? Just wondering if anyone has stuffed a solution of electrolyte (1 quart of H2O and 1 tablespoon of b. soda) into the freezer to see at what temp it freezes, if it freezes?

If the system did freeze wouldn't the electrodes melt the ice fairly quickly after you started your motor??

 

[PuddinHead]

If the system did freeze wouldn't the electrodes melt the ice fairly quickly after you started your motor??

I bet the ice would tend to act as an insulator. Engine heat might thaw things out eventually.

 

[Ecomike]

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/11/the-40-mpg-450.html



"A Texas startup has finally pulled the wraps off its 40-mpg, 450-horsepower Scorpion roadster, a hand-built hydrogen-burning "eco-exotic" that is sexier than Angelina Jolie and has the performance to provide more grins than nitrous oxide. Ronn Motor Company unveiled the Scorpion today at the big SEMA, or Speciality Equipment Market Association, automotive trade show in Las Vegas, which may be the perfect place to debut so flashy — and innovative — a car. The company hopes the Scorpion does for hydrogen what the Tesla Roadster has done for batteries.
"We want to build cool cars, just more responsibly”, company president Ronn Maxwell told Wired.com. "Our hope with the Scorpion is to implement a paradigm shift not only in how the industry looks at supercars but at cars in general."
We got a sneak peak of Scorpion #001 as it was being unloaded at the Las Vegas Convention Center...
The Scorpion gets its sting from a hydrogen delivery system the company calls H2GO. While cars like the Honda FCX Clarity and Chevrolet Equinox use hydrogen fuel cells to drive electric motors, the Scorpion uses electrolysis to convert water into gaseous hydrogen. The hydrogen is mixed with 91-octane gasoline to improve the fuel economy and reduce the emissions of the car's 3.5-liter internal combustion engine.
Maxwell, a 40-year auto industry vet and lifelong gearhead who holds several patents, is using the limited production — just 200 will be built — Scorpion to prove the technology works and legitimize the H2GO system the company will begin selling for $1,000 early next year. The way he sees it, if H2GO works on the Scorpion, it'll work on your Civic.
Maxwell didn't offer much in the way of specifics, saying the publicly traded company is still dotting the i's and crossing the t's on the venture. But he says H2GO is good for a 15 percent to 33 percent improvement in mileage, a noticeable increase in power and a significant reduction in overall emissions. The company is pursuing EPA certification of the Scorpion so people can get a better idea of what the system is capable of. Maxwell insists the 40-mpg figure is the real deal.
The trucking industry has been using hydrogen boosting for years. But the Scorpion is significant because it uses what the company calls real-time hydrogen delivery as part of an original factory design. And unlike BMW’s Hydrogen 7, Scorpion does not keep any 30-gallon tanks full of liquid hydrogen lying around at −253 °C (−423.4 °F)."..............

 

[Dest]

Way too...bubbly for my taste in sports cars, but I applaud their technological achievements. If I was gonna drop 150k on a car though, it'd be prolly be something more...Lamborghini-ish. I'll also believe their claims when they're proven by an independent.

 

[SeansBlueXJ]

$1K for the unit? Ill wait a year till it's reversed engineered and Mike finds us the plans online somewhere.

 

[Fastdemise]

Has anybody thought of relocating the battery to the back cargo area leaving all spot open for like up to 6 HHO cells in a nice flat location and a 'safe' distance away from engine heat.

 

[Ecomike]

Found this online today.

1806: Swiss engineer François Isaac de Rivaz built an internal combustion engine powered by a hydrogen and oxygen mixture.
1823: Samuel Brown patented the first internal combustion engine to be applied industrially. It ran on a hydrogen oxygen mix and was tested by using it to propel a vehicle up Shooter's Hill.
1918: Charles H. Frazer received a patent for "hydro-booster" He found that hydro boosters work best with low grade fuels and can double fuel efficiency of ICEs.
1931: Michael Faraday discovered the two fundamental “LAWS” of electrolysis and was able to achieve 100% efficient electrolysis.
1933: Charles H. Garrett patented a carburetor similar to an ordinary float-type carburetor but with electrolysis plates in the lower portion, and where the float is used to maintain the level of the water. A DC current was controlled by his mechanical pulse width modulator. He later successfully demonstrated his water-fuelled car publicly before a group of scientist and engineers which was reported on September 8, 1935 in the Dallas Morning News.
1937: The Heinkel HeS 1 experimental hydrogen fueled centrifugal jet engine was successfully tested at Hirth.
1966: William A. Rhodes patented an electrolyzer design that’s referred to as "common-ducted," and used to create oxyhydrogen for welding.
1973: A 1959 Opel T-1 using a electrolyzer to create a hydrogen oxygen gas mix as a fuel supplement achieved 376.59 miles per gallon in a 1973 contest sponsored by Shell Oil Co. Guinness listed it in its 1975 record book and the France family, owners of NASCAR, purchased the car and donated it to the museum at Talladega raceway where it has since been forgotten.
1974: A document published by Soc. Auto. Engrs.,New York SAE Meeting; 12-16 Aug 1974; SAE Preprint 740600, discusses the benefits of; "On-board hydrogen generator for a partial hydrogen injection internal combustion engine"
1975: John Houseman and D.J Cerini of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory produced a report for the Society of Automotive Engineers titled: "On-Board Hydrogen Generator for a Partial Hydrogen Injection Internal Combustion Engine", and F.W. Hoehn and M.W. Dowy, also of the Jet Propulsion Lab, prepared a report for the 9th Intersociety Energy Conversion Engineering Conference, titled "Feasibility Demonstration of a Road Vehicle Fueled with Hydrogen Enriched Gasoline."
1976: NASA’s Lewis Research Center discovered they could run a high compression gas engine at an equivalence ratio of about 0.75 (a Lamda of 1.33) and obtain a higher engine thermal efficiency over the standard gasoline engine. The report states; “Adding small amounts of hydrogen to gasoline produced efficient lean operation by increasing the apparent flame speed and reducing ignition lag.”
1977: Yull Brown patented a series cell common-ducted electrolyzer used for welding and improving the fuel efficiency of ICEs.
1978: Jack Nicholson publicly unveiled a 100% hydrogen powered car in which the hydrogen gas had been generated by solar panels emitting low volt DC current used for the electrolysis of water.
1983-1989: Stanley Meyer patented a hydrogen generator and hydrogen gas injector system for internal combustion engine as well as several other similar patents for a water powered car.
1984: The Avion sports car was developed as a lightweight fuel efficient car using a hydro booster combined with a diesel engine to help increase its MPG and set the Guinness world record for fuel economy in 1986 at 103.7-mpg. average driving from Mexico to Canada

 

[FunTech]

@fastdemise
repoxp777 supplied photos of a four cell generator which is located

 

[FunTech]

behind his front seat. check after post #200.

I think this is an interesting thread because so far we have had about an equal measure of successes and failures. renoxp777 has somewhat succeeded because he has increased his MPG from 16-18 to ~25 now, whereas goodBourbon tried to duplicate the process and was far from satisfied with the results.

I still have questions about how the additive is affecting the whole CEC system. Should this method of doping change the emissions footprint? I would be interested in hearing from some of our more scientifically gifted whether the O2 levels would or would not change. Has anyone done an emissions test after the mod?

 

[FunTech]

@fastdemiseIts post 296 for the pics...

 

[REPOXP777]

It has been a few months since my last post . I am still getting 25 to 26 mpg in mostly city driving . I have logged about 10,000 miles on the 89 Jeep Cherokee since my last post with no problems . I did have to change my 180F thermostat and stick in a 195F because of the cooling affect that the HHO has on the engine . Not that I need the heat , just to maintain the propper operating temp . When I first start the Jeep in the morning I run it with the generator off until the engine reaches normal temp and then I turn on the generator .