Totally stuck on window switch fix. Zero clue what to do here.

[heyhar]

Here is what I know:
1) I can control the other 3 windows from driver's switch.

This means power is getting into the door, to the switch

2) I can NOT control driver's window.
3) Driver's window switch DOES show connectivity.

This means the switch is probably OK

Either there is a busted wire, or a busted motor.
Next, I will remove the entire wire harness and look for a busted wire.

I would test the motor before I removed a harness that apparently works, as power comes in and goes out. May be the wires to the motor from the switch, but my money is on the motor. Let us know what you find.

 

[bimmerjeeper]

Ron. I really appreciate you trying to explain this, but I have no idea what you're saying.
I don't know how switches and motors work, so this is WAY too complex to just read in text format.
So, I can't really follow without a picture or actual demonstration.
I think your explanation makes sense to someone who already knows about switches, leads, motors, etc.

Since the motor is welded/riveted into place, that is way out of my league.
That is a replacement job I will send to the dealer for $1000.

I really do wish I knew what you were trying to say, but it's like another language.
I didn't realize this was such a complex diagnosis/repair, and thought it was common to simply fix a window switch or busted wire.
I've spent almost an entire week trying to understand this problem. Next time, this stuff goes to a real mechanic.

For now, I am just going to rip out the entire wire harness and look for a broken wire.
I think I can figure that much out.

 

[Saudade]

If you are *VERY CAREFUL* you can use 2 wire jumpers (or paperclips) in the harness side connector to see if the window moves. Make sure you use the correct pairing of connections. Do not let them touch each other.

The switch simply reverses the polarity to the window motor. Pins 8 & 9 would go the motor since they are common to both directions. The others flip + and -. It's like connecting a small toy motor to a battery. You connect is one way and the motor turns one way. You flip the wires and the motor turn the other way.

 

[heyhar]

For now, I am just going to rip out the entire wire harness and look for a broken wire.
I think I can figure that much out.

From all that you've said, the harness is not the problem. Why are you going to rip it out? The problem, by means of elimination, is the motor or its wiring. Rip that out, and find someone who can test it.

 

[bimmerjeeper]

If you are *VERY CAREFUL* you can use 2 wire jumpers (or paperclips) in the harness side connector to see if the window moves. Make sure you use the correct pairing of connections. Do not let them touch each other.

The switch simply reverses the polarity to the window motor. Pins 8 & 9 would go the motor since they are common to both directions. The others flip + and -. It's like connecting a small toy motor to a battery. You connect is one way and the motor turns one way. You flip the wires and the motor turn the other way.

Sorry, I don't understand what is supplying power.
Exactly where does one end of paper clip #1 go?
Exactly where does the other end of paper clip #1 go?
Exactly where does one end of paper clip #2 go?
Exactly where does the other end of paper clip #2 go?
Thank you.

[/QUOTE]

From all that you've said, the harness is not the problem. Why are you going to rip it out? The problem, by means of elimination, is the motor or its wiring. Rip that out, and find someone who can test it.

I was under the impression that the power wire for the motor could be broken.
Recall, there are no wires in my door boot, just braids.
So, this is why I am going to remove the harness.
Does this logic make sense?

If it's the motor, I am not qualified to remove/replace the motor, b/c it is apparent riveted/welded in place (brilliant Jeep engineering for you?)
If it's the motor, I will bring it to a mechanic. I can't drill and weld and stuff. I can just turn bolts.
Working on BMW's is 100x easier than Jeeps, that's for sure.

 

[bimmerjeeper]

Update: I decided to try testing the wires that go to the motor inside the door.
This was to see if power is getting to the motor itself. Please tell me what my results mean.
I unclipped the plug that goes to what I think is the window motor. It has the blue and white wire.
I tested for continuity and for voltage. Results of the testing are below the photos...
First, here are pics to show what I am referring to.

When I tested for continuity, the needle would pin for both orderings of the black and red probes.

When I tested for voltage on the 10V setting, pressing the driver's switch UP would pin the needle in one direction, and pressing it DOWN would pin it backwards the other way.
When I reversed black and red probes, the direction the needle would go was reversed. By getting pinned, I think it is getting about 12V.
When I dialed the VOM to 50V, I got in that 12V ballpark also. Do I need to know the exact value?

So, what does this tell me? Can I ignore the wires in the boot, and assume power is getting to the motor, and the motor is toast?
I think it was recently replaced, b/c the bolts look brand new in the 3rd photo above (and they aren't rivets)
The PO told me he replaced the regulator, so maybe this was disconnected recently.

If this proves it's the motor, anyone know where I can order a new window motor from?
What year XJ's are compatible for buying a used one?

Thanks again for the continued help on this repair...
It would be great to solve this!

 

[WB9YZU]

Update: I decided to try testing the wires that go to the motor inside the door.
This was to see if power is getting to the motor itself. Please tell me what my results mean.
I unclipped the plug that goes to what I think is the window motor. It has the blue and white wire.
I tested for continuity and for voltage. Results of the testing are below the photos...
First, here are pics to show what I am referring to.


When I tested for continuity, the needle would pin for both orderings of the black and red probes.
Correct, in the center position, the leads to the switch should read a short.

When I tested for voltage on the 10V setting, pressing the driver's switch UP would pin the needle in one direction, and pressing it DOWN would pin it backwards the other way.
When I reversed black and red probes, the direction the needle would go was reversed. By getting pinned, I think it is getting about 12V.
When I dialed the VOM to 50V, I got in that 12V ballpark also. Do I need to know the exact value?
Correct again, and no you don't need a specific value if you feel that it is reading 12V.

So, what does this tell me? Can I ignore the wires in the boot Yes, you determined they were good quite a while back when you said the other windows worked, and assume power is getting to the motor at this point yes, and the motor is toast did you go the extra step and measure continuity across the motor leads??
I think it was recently replaced, b/c the bolts look brand new in the 3rd photo above (and they aren't rivets)
The PO told me he replaced the regulator, so maybe this was disconnected recently.

If this proves it's the motor, anyone know where I can order a new window motor from?
What year XJ's are compatible for buying a used one?

Thanks again for the continued help on this repair...
It would be great to solve this!

 

[bimmerjeeper]

PS: If this proves it's the motor, does this mean I need to
1) detach the window
2) remove the entire regulator/motor combination from the door
3) swap in the new motor onto old regulator
4) reinstall ?

Actually, The PO did tell me he replaced the regulator and motor combo with a cheap Dorman aftermarket, and it failed within about a year. Is this typical?

 

[bimmerjeeper]

did you go the extra step and measure continuity across the motor leads??

No, I posted exactly what I did. Are you saying I should test continuity in the other side of that plug? (The part I removed it from)
I think there will be female plugs there, b/c I tested the male side of the plug connection. I don't think my probes will fit into such a thin slot.
Or, do I remove the 3 bolts from the door and remove the motor from inside the door? Then what?

 

[rlhj2]

The problem on my 97 ended up being that the pass side switch was filthy and full of debris.
I cleaned it with electrical contact cleaner and it started working fine.

 

[bimmerjeeper]

Update! I went back to the XJ and decided to try banging on the window motor by removing the audio speaker for access.
Viola! The window started working perfectly!

I did notice it would stop working after I went to start cleaning up and try it again after a few minutes. Hitting it again would make it work. I tried to figure out if there was a loose connection, but could not feel anything obvious. I detached the motor and tried to lift it to get a better look, but those thick regulator cables were getting in the way. I finally reassembled, had to hit the motor a bunch more times, and once it was working again, I reassembled the door. I do not like having an unreliable window (gets stuck down in the rain, etc) so I will probably just replace the regulator for $45. But, I can keep this low priority since it's the winter.

Does anyone know what this long cable "tail" coming off the motor is for??
It lays down inside the door panel.

While I had the speaker out I traced the wire loom into the door boot.
The entire loom is covered by this metal braid.
That's why I could not see a single wire. They are 100% wrapped inside the braided loom.
But, the only wire I seem to have broken is the speaker wire. Who cares.

So, I think this issue is solved.
The window works after banging on the 1 year old Dorman replacement motor, but it will most likely stop working again.
I have a flaky motor and will replace it for $50 or so. Thanks to everyone for taking their time in trying to help.
While very frustrating, this was a valuable experience b/c I learned how to use a multimeter for voltage and connectivity.
Hopefully this thread will help others in the future.

 

[WB9YZU]

Victory though persistence and the American Way!

Good Job!

 

[DANBYRAMBLER]

[/QUOTE]

PWC2 - DESCRIPTION IS A LITTLE CONFUSING BUT FROM IT YOU CAN SEE THAT:

OFF (NORMAL) - #8 PIN IS NEG/GROUND & #9 PIN IS +/POS

AND THEN MOTOR LEADS ARE:

LF 5 & 12

LR 4 & 10

RF 3 & 6

RR 1 & 2


THIS'S A LITTLE LATE - - - BUT MAYBE IT'LL STILL HELP SOMEONE - - -

UNDERSTANDING HOW THE SWITCHES WORK - - ONE BAD THING-BECAUSE OF THE RALPH NADERS MOST ALL PWR WINDOWS ARE LIKELY TO RUN THROUGH A RELAY - PROBLEM MAY BE WITH THE RELAY - BUT ANYWAY, HOPE THIS HELPS & ANYONE HANDY WITH A DRAFTING PROG FEEL FREE TO CLEAN UP THE DRAWINGS

I DON'T KNOW IF 97+ SWITCHES ARE 6 OR 5 PIN - HERE IS HOW 84-96 JEEP MJ/XJ 6 PIN SWITCHES WORK - ALL THE SAME-NO WAY CAN BE PUT IN UPSIDE DWN/BACKWARDS-CENTER PINS ARE ALWAYS MTR TERMINALS-PWR PINS R FACTORY JUMPPERED - A=PWR CONNECTIONS - PINS 2&5 ARE FACTORY JUMPERED - - - B=SWITCH AT REST - - C=SWITCH UP R DWN - - D=SWITCH UP R DWN OTHER DIRECTION - - E=HOW DRIVERS/MASTER SW OPERATES OTHER SWITCHES & OTHERS REQUIRE A SEPERATE +/POS LEAD - - - F= HOW GM & MOST OF REST OF WORLD WORKED -- WITH A 5 PIN SWITCH - SAME THING BUT WITH ONE LESS TERMINAL

DRAWING E IS INCORRECT (BONEHEAD) WILL POST REVISION SOON