To all Americans...

8mud is a bit clouded. Yeah, I only lived in Germany for 10 years, but I still loved & supported my country while I was abroad. He seems to wanna change it... and that is not gonna happen. Besides, he beats dogs. yeah, great man he is. LOL.

I see a bunch of want to be fascists and want to discourage them. You guys go ahead and have your crusade, have fun. When you run out of bad guys, you can turn on each other.
I guess a few purple hearts, trying to make the world a safer place for you ingrates doesn't buy me the right to a dissenting opinion.
People that don't think just like you, have no right to breath the same air as all you patriots. Supporting you and supporting my country are vastly different things in my mind, as is being a good American.
I'm one of those fools with whom your junk and your family are likely as safe as with you. I'd likely be a good neighbor, but would I want you for a neighbor, that's the question?
Speaking of gangs, somebody will have to explain the difference between the minute men and a gang to me, I guess I'm just dense.
 
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22614102/

Phoenix is the kidnapping capitol of the US.

Home of John McCain and the recently appointed Janet Napolitano to head up the Dept of Homeland Security.

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/ss/related/107614

Seems like the 2nd Amendment is allowing guns to funnel into Mexico.....I smell an agenda.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,493704,00.html


Mexico is about to Collapse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSwuxM7vP_Y

Phoenix Kidnappings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOM_ogJNtSc

Beck isn't so far off from what I've been saying. Three choices that I can see. Get a handle on your population, I mean get serious, everybody gets documented. Give up and open the border and in a generation or two things will shake themselves out. Or invade Mexico, move in, reorganize it and incorporate it.
Anything else is IMO just peeing into the wind.
Reagan had another solution, assimilate the illegals already here and then make the country they left appealing enough they won't want to leave. It was a decades long approach, that was picked to pieces almost from the moment of it's inception.
 
The difference between minute men and gang members.

Minutemen fight to uphold the laws

Gang members fight to break the laws

I imagine the gang members think they are the good guys. It's not that simple or straight forward.
Some of the biggest gangs around are gangster inc. and make the laws. And if you actually think they make the laws to benefit you, you are as naive as I've been called.
 
Gangs are completely different than anything else.

I have never seen a gang banger be regarded as trying to be a good guy.

That's not naive, its just retarded.

I don't think all the benefit me, but lawmakers are not gangsters and far from.
Hence why I believe in a smaller government...

but a government that does its job none the less...
 
Beck isn't so far off from what I've been saying. Three choices that I can see. Get a handle on your population, I mean get serious, everybody gets documented. Give up and open the border and in a generation or two things will shake themselves out. Or invade Mexico, move in, reorganize it and incorporate it.
Anything else is IMO just peeing into the wind.
Reagan had another solution, assimilate the illegals already here and then make the country they left appealing enough they won't want to leave. It was a decades long approach, that was picked to pieces almost from the moment of it's inception.

You forgot one. Annex Mexico and make it "State #51 et al" (we could probably get five or six out of it...) and then they wouldn't be either "illegal" or "immigrants" anymore. Problem solved!
 
You forgot one. Annex Mexico and make it "State #51 et al" (we could probably get five or six out of it...) and then they wouldn't be either "illegal" or "immigrants" anymore. Problem solved!
Between NAFTA and America all but owning Mexican banks, the process is probably so far along now, it's all but a done deal anyway.
Of course I'm naive, ignorant, live in a cloud and not a true American or patriotic.
Mexico screwed the pooch twice, once when they nationalized the oil industry and again when they let the US bail out there banks in 95 and buy a veto on the boards of directors for most of the Banks. Mexico opts out on that deal, it would justify an invasion.
 
I see a bunch of want to be fascists and want to discourage them. You guys go ahead and have your crusade, have fun. When you run out of bad guys, you can turn on each other.
I guess a few purple hearts, trying to make the world a safer place for you ingrates doesn't buy me the right to a dissenting opinion.
People that don't think just like you, have no right to breath the same air as all you patriots. Supporting you and supporting my country are vastly different things in my mind, as is being a good American.
I'm one of those fools with whom your junk and your family are likely as safe as with you. I'd likely be a good neighbor, but would I want you for a neighbor, that's the question?
Speaking of gangs, somebody will have to explain the difference between the minute men and a gang to me, I guess I'm just dense.

Look, we appreciate your service and sacrifices. Stop using it as a waiver. Your ideas are mainly crackpot ones that would do nothing but break down the whole infrastructure built up to protect this country from foreign invaders.

There is nothing good coming from illegals. Nothing ever will either.

The best thing to do is shut down the border and not take this topic lightly.
 
Look, we appreciate your service and sacrifices. Stop using it as a waiver. Your ideas are mainly crackpot ones that would do nothing but break down the whole infrastructure built up to protect this country from foreign invaders.

There is nothing good coming from illegals. Nothing ever will either.

The best thing to do is shut down the border and not take this topic lightly.
Two words, tunnel vision.
 
Between NAFTA and America all but owning Mexican banks, the process is probably so far along now, it's all but a done deal anyway.
Of course I'm naive, ignorant, live in a cloud and not a true American or patriotic.
Mexico screwed the pooch twice, once when they nationalized the oil industry and again when they let the US bail out there banks in 95 and buy a veto on the boards of directors for most of the Banks. Mexico opts out on that deal, it would justify an invasion.

My point exactly. It's damned near a fait accompli anyhow, and there's really no point in half-assing a job (I learned that when I was six.)

Crackpot idea? Perhaps. However, as Einstein once said, "Insanity can be defined as doing the same thing in the same manner and expecting a different result."

Border control isn't working.
Immigration and visa control isn't working.
Amnesties aren't helping the matter.

If we were to annex Mexico, we could solve a few problems at a stroke -
Illegal immigration would be a non-issue, since they're no longer "immigrant" or "illegal."
The tax base would increase (although I'd still prefer a nominal NRST over FITW anyhow. But, migrants who come up here would be subject to payroll taxation like the rest of us.)
Our oil reserves would increase dramatically.
The length of our southern border would decrease dramatically, and therefore be much easier to police.
"Mexican" trucks would be brought up to USDoT safety standards, thus reducing hazzards on the roadways.
Since people wouldn't need to come up here illegally anymore, there would be no more violation of sovereign rights of land ownership (although those are already dissolving anyhow - see what happens if you don't pay your property taxes for a year or so. They can auction off a $250K house to pay a $10K bill, dispossess you, and render you homeless. Something amiss there...)

I'm sure there are more, but that's what comes to mind at first gloss.

I'm likely to be thought of as a naif myself, but refer to Einstein's quote above, again. If what we're doing isn't working, and what we've done hasn't worked, then why are we still doing it? It's time to try something else.
 
Border control isn't working.
Immigration and visa control isn't working.
Amnesties aren't helping the matter.

I agree that none of this is working but what other choice do we really have? I'm not really sure how the rules work for crossing the bridges here, but I think its pretty easy for people to come across. I know there are plenty of Americans living over there, and driving their kids to school everyday. And there is the day workers coming across as well.
I believe its kinda free for all for people to cross over into El Paso, but once you try to leave this area you hit BP check points on every road out of here.

5-90 said:
If we were to annex Mexico, we could solve a few problems at a stroke -
Illegal immigration would be a non-issue, since they're no longer "immigrant" or "illegal."
The tax base would increase (although I'd still prefer a nominal NRST over FITW anyhow. But, migrants who come up here would be subject to payroll taxation like the rest of us.)
Our oil reserves would increase dramatically.
The length of our southern border would decrease dramatically, and therefore be much easier to police.
"Mexican" trucks would be brought up to USDoT safety standards, thus reducing hazzards on the roadways.
Since people wouldn't need to come up here illegally anymore, there would be no more violation of sovereign rights of land ownership (although those are already dissolving anyhow - see what happens if you don't pay your property taxes for a year or so. They can auction off a $250K house to pay a $10K bill, dispossess you, and render you homeless. Something amiss there...)

Boy could you imagine if we did that, haha. And everyone thought Bush was the devil for going into Iraq. But annexing Mexico would bring more problems than its worth. Now we would really have to worry about those 2 nut jobs in Bolivia(Evo Morales) and Venezuela(Hugo Chavez).
But it would give us some new places to ride.
 
Crackpot idea? Perhaps. However, as Einstein once said, "Insanity can be defined as doing the same thing in the same manner and expecting a different result."

Border control isn't working.
Immigration and visa control isn't working.
Amnesties aren't helping the matter.
However, it wouldn't be insane to actually do something about the borders instead of halfassing it. We aren't doing it properly, and since we keep repeating the improper methods, we're getting the same crappy results.

Actually cracking down on those who use illegals, closing the border physically and making sure there wasn't a way in and deporting those who are taking advantage of the system would be the best way to end the problem.

However, there are so many groups out there that bitch and moan when you target the mexicans. It makes it impossible to get anything done. Its ridiculous.
 
However, it wouldn't be insane to actually do something about the borders instead of halfassing it. We aren't doing it properly, and since we keep repeating the improper methods, we're getting the same crappy results.

Actually cracking down on those who use illegals, closing the border physically and making sure there wasn't a way in and deporting those who are taking advantage of the system would be the best way to end the problem.

However, there are so many groups out there that bitch and moan when you target the mexicans. It makes it impossible to get anything done. Its ridiculous.

By discussion we find a middle ground and potential answers. Do you have anything more specific to suggest? My idea gets rid of the facet of "illegal" at a stroke - since we keep offering amnesties anyhow, and a good portion of Mexico is here already (and probably a small but measurable percentage of most of the rest of Central America as well...) it's not that big a stretch - to me, anyhow.

And we already have to worry about Morales and the fat boy with the bad manners anyhow - who just took another step toward getting himself set up as "President-for-life" down there, and is trying to bring about a new iteration of Socialist Utopia (nevermind the little factoid that it hasn't worked anywhere with anyone yet...)
 
I guess a few purple hearts, trying to make the world a safer place for you ingrates doesn't buy me the right to a dissenting opinion.
People that don't think just like you, have no right to breath the same air as all you patriots. Supporting you and supporting my country are vastly different things in my mind, as is being a good American.
Getting a Purple Heart doesn't automatically mean we'll listen to you. Many of us have served and while we may not have any Purple Hearts, our opinions are every bit as valid. Except that we're still living in America and putting up with all this. If your backup argument is always to call anyone who disagrees a fascist and point to the medals on your chest, maybe you need to reevaluate your stance.

Also, we're talking about America, not your country. You left, remember? Don't try and say how you're our extreme Border Patrol either, as you've said before. ;)
P.S. Are you sure you're not John Kerry? Talking about how you wanna throw away your medals because people disagree with you...


Jon (5-90): You make it sound so easy. Bringing all the Mexican truckers up to USDOT standards would rediculous amounts of money. Which would be paid by the gov't. We would have to overhaul their police system, knock out the corruption. It would require a vast increase in the size of our police forces. The same conditions that make risking your life crossing some God-forsaken stretch of desert would still exist in our new states except now it would be a lot easier to get up here. It would take a lot more money than we have available. For what it would cost, we could properly police the border. As you said, any job worth doing is worth not half-assing and doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results is insanity. So we actually put forth real effort at securing our country and quit doing a halfway job.
 
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Jon (5-90): You make it sound so easy. Bringing all the Mexican truckers up to USDOT standards would rediculous amounts of money. Which would be paid by the gov't. We would have to overhaul their police system, knock out the corruption. It would require a vast increase in the size of our police forces. The same conditions that make risking your life crossing some God-forsaken stretch of desert would still exist in our new states except now it would be a lot easier to get up here. It would take a lot more money than we have available. For what it would cost, we could properly police the border. As you said, any job worth doing is worth not half-assing and doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results is insanity. So we actually put forth real effort at securing our country and quit doing a halfway job.

As I said before - the solution lies in the middle ground between the two extremes, and discussion is how you get there. Annexation is, natch, an extreme example of what could be done - and what we're doing (which is effectively nothing) is the other extreme.

How do you suggest we "properly police" the border? Also, would your solution include policing the border with Canada as well? While there aren't as many illegals coming across from the Great White North, we get plenty of European and Asian illegals coming into the country from Canada.

I think the Latinos who complain of racism WRT immigration issues aren't anything like close to what's going on (I don't mention race - they do!) but if we secure the southern border, we'd better secure the northern as well. Else, we'll be in the middle of a racism battle all over again, and probably worse than we're dealing with now.

One must take the wide view of things...
 
Getting a Purple Heart doesn't automatically mean we'll listen to you. Many of us have served and while we may not have any Purple Hearts, our opinions are every bit as valid. Except that we're still living in America and putting up with all this. If your backup argument is always to call anyone who disagrees a fascist and point to the medals on your chest, maybe you need to reevaluate your stance.

Also, we're talking about America, not your country. You left, remember? Don't try and say how you're our extreme Border Patrol either, as you've said before. ;)
P.S. Are you sure you're not John Kerry? Talking about how you wanna throw away your medals because people disagree with you...


Jon (5-90): You make it sound so easy. Bringing all the Mexican truckers up to USDOT standards would rediculous amounts of money. Which would be paid by the gov't. We would have to overhaul their police system, knock out the corruption. It would require a vast increase in the size of our police forces. The same conditions that make risking your life crossing some God-forsaken stretch of desert would still exist in our new states except now it would be a lot easier to get up here. It would take a lot more money than we have available. For what it would cost, we could properly police the border. As you said, any job worth doing is worth not half-assing and doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results is insanity. So we actually put forth real effort at securing our country and quit doing a halfway job.

So don't listen, I'm used to it, my kids sure don't and I watch them make the same old dumb arsed mistakes I made 50-60 years ago, all over again and again and again. I'm just saying, I've done enough for the good old US of A, to earn an opinion. Likely more than others who tout themselves as the only true Americans. It really makes no difference where I'm living now.
And my statements about my purple hearts, was rhetorical, just what does a person have to do to be considered an American. I could die for my country and in some peoples eyes still be a foreigner, what have you done for your country lately?
I personally know I've done way more than I had to do.
America not my country? All of my kids are bi lingual, most likely know American history better than most of the population, all have dual citizenship. Half live in the US and half live here. I own property in Germany, S.C. and Arizona.
But I guess my nationality or loyalties are for others to decide and it's up to me to meet there standards of citizenship.
You want to put up with the B.S. in the states that's your affair. I have to say, all told, Germany has been good to me, much better than living in the states was. Though Germany has another set of minuses that I've adapted to, I sure don't agree with everything.
Look up the definition of fascist,
"Fascism is an authoritarian nationalist ideology focused on solving economic, political, and social problems that its supporters see as causing national decline or decadence".
Fascism may not be a total fit, but the best fit I can come up with. People are constantly coming up with new laws and regulations, in affect building there own cages, inside there fences, behind there walls. Usually the majority passing laws to control the minority. Of course, most all of these laws are unidirectional, for the other guy and not me.
And by the way, the size of the Border Patrol has doubled, during the same time period the illegal population has grown six fold. Like 5-90 said, maybe it's time for another approach.
People standing at the border, threatening people with firearms for trespassing or littering, seems a bit irrational to me.
I have no doubt in my mind, I could find a dope dealer within a couple of blocks of the home of any Minute man member, but they see the threat as being external and a problem of illegal immigration. Maybe there time could be better spent cleaning up there own back yard. IMO
As long as we are playing the king has no clothes, blacks generally detest Mexicans, why? Because they undermine there minority status and there political clout. The Mexicans (or Latinos) are or are soon to be the majority minority in America. Deal with it, it's unlikely to disappear no matter what you do.
 
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Also, we're talking about America, not your country. You left, remember? Don't try and say how you're our extreme Border Patrol either, as you've said before. ;)

I guess all those nights I spent patrolling the old iron curtain were all a bad dream, the BDA I did in Laos a nightmare and my time skulking around Croatia a wrong turn on my way to Switzerland.
Extreme, try playing hide and seek with the Spensatz sometime. Where the rules are, no shooting as this may cause an international incident, most everything else goes but death.
I'd say extreme Border Patrol is an accurate description. Though my mission was mostly to observe and report and rarely interdiction. I was offered a position with the US border patrol at Yuma, in hindsight I probably should have taken it.
Why did I leave the US? The biggest reason was there were just too many A holes in the parts of America I was familiar with, unwilling to leave me in peace. My joys in life were exploring in the Desert, varmint hunting, surf fishing and canyon racing. I gave up the desert for the forest, the surf for a river or lake, they have varmints aplenty here, and the canyons, for other canyons and the autobahn. People here don't often mess with me, if at all.
They seem willing to accept my eccentricities and really don't care if I conform or not.
i didn't leave, as much as I forced out and remember at the time thinking the people who ran me off, are likely to be unhappy with whomever replaces me. I just got tired of being harassed and then having to pay for the privilege.
I guess every generation has to reinvent the wheel and most think the current model is the best yet.
 
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