Orson_Yancey
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Portsmouth, NH
November 19, 2008
Thread of Brake Pads and Rotors to Achieve Best Stopping Power
I would like to start a thread to place all information on brake pads and
rotors. Here, I have started with a focus on Pre-1990 XJ's which includes
Renix era XJ's. Other people can add information for 1990 and newer Jeeps.
Each person can contribute on the years of Xj's or other Jeeps that he or she
is most familiar with.
Recent projects and some future projects of mine are to rebuild or upgrade
various components of the brake system of my 1988 (RENIX) Jeep Cherokee, 4WD.
I have searched
and read hundreds of posts on the subject of brakes.
I have decided to start a thread to compile the information. My objective is
to find the best (highest performance) stopping power brake pads and rotors
at a reasonably low price. This survey is not at all exhaustive, but as a
starting point to cover some of the common name brands.
The best ways to improve overall stopping ability in order of effectiveness
are:
1.) Use good tires that grip the road.
2.) Select brakes pads with a high coefficient of friction.
3.) Use larger rotors.
4.) Use cross-drilled rotors to improve convection heat transfer.
(This information is from the PowerStop website.)
Of course, if your budget is large, then the highest stopping power brake
systems are probably from Vanco, but only for 1990 and newer XJ's.
In brake pad design, there are many factors, but I weighted most highly
stopping power (indicated by coefficient of friction, called mu) as stopping
is the primary purpose of any brake system. Other secondary factors are:
High temperature fade
Life of the pad
Life of the rotor
Squeal or other noises
Dust generated
Depending on how and where you drive and whether you have expensive $200
alloy rims, you may feel that some of the above factors are also primary.
With stopping power as the primary objective, while being willing to put up
with a certain amount of undesirable secondary factors, the materials of
brake pads can be approximately rated like this, from lowest stopping power
to highest stopping power:
Organic
Ceramic
Semi-metallic
Carbon Metallic (Also called steel-carbon.)
Metallic
Please bear in mind, that as the stopping power (coefficient of friction)
increases; generally the brake pads wear faster, the brake pads wear the
rotors faster, the brakes make more noise, generate more dust, generate more
heat, and stop poorer at low temperatures. These are the trade-offs. There
are some nice charts at www.brakeperformance.com and www.powerstop.com.
Basically, you want enough braking power to be able to lock-up your tires
during the worst case scenario. This would be while running the largest
tires you expect to have on your vehicle, at high speed, on dry pavement
where tire grip is the highest, with the maximum about of weight you expect
to put on that axle due to cargo or trailer towing or the inclination of the
hill you are descending. Plus maybe add in a little extra needed braking
power to cover for when your brake pads and rotors are getting worn, when the
rotors are still wet from having crossed through the previous stream, or when
the brakes are hot after repeated use. Since conditions vary and you do not
know exactly the above factors in advance, it is best to err on the side of
having too much braking power than not enough.
There are a couple schools of thought on the most cost effective brake
system:
1. Use Mild Brake Pads and Preserve Your Expensive Rotors
----------------------------------------------------------
One school of thought believes the most cost effective solution is to
purchase the milder ceramic pads (usually more expensive than semi-metallic
pads) coupled with expensive plain smooth rotors or expensive cross-
drilled/slotted rotors. The guys with the $200 alloy rims like this solution
in order to reduce dust build-up and preserve the nice-looking cross-
drilled/slotted rotors, part of the wheel appeal.
2. Use Aggressive Brake Pads and Regularly Replace Low Cost Rotors
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Another school of thought believes the most cost effective solution is to
purchase brake pads with the highest possible stopping power (usually semi-
metallic) coupled with low cost, smooth rotors. This group of people believe
that rotors are to be regularly replaced at the same time as brake pads or
with every other set of brake pads. In my opinion, for a Jeep, I follow this
school of thought. However, I would not put on the lowest cost rotor from
China, but instead a decent quality plain smooth rotor.
What High Stopping Power Brake Pads I Found at Reasonable Prices
----------------------------------------------------------------
I searched for brake pads to fit years 1984 to 1989, which includes the RENIX
years. A common complaint from RENIX owners has been the difficulty in
finding high performance brake parts. The information included here can also
be useful for 1990 XJ's and on -- just find your correct part number.
I limited my search to relatively well-known, dependable brand names, who
care about and want to continue a good reputation. It is just not worth
taking the risk with some no-name brake products that may be from China or
you do not know where they are made. I realize that even some brand-name
products may have manufacturing plants in China, but at least the brand names
have a reputation to protect, are designed in America, and quality tested in
America.
Here is the list of brake pads for 1984 to 1989 4WD XJ's:
The price is per axle. The price is followed by the source website.
High Even Higher
Stopping Power Stopping Power
-------------- --------------
Bendix
Part # SUV 203SUV Fleet MetLok 203FM
Price $42 $40.50
Source AutoBarn.com AutoBarn.com
The Fleet MetLok is for truck and fleet use.
PowerSlot Steel-Carbon Metallic
Part # Z26-203 Z36-203
Price $50 $60
Source PowerStop.com PowerStop.com
$64.50 $54
BuyBrakes.com BuyBrakes.com
$45 $77
TopBrakes.com TopBrakes.com
The Z36 is for trucks, hauling, and towing.
Performance Friction Carbon-Metallic Carbon-Metallic Z-Rated
Part # 203 0447.10
Price $38 $155.70
Source RotorsAndPads.com PreformanceFriction.com
$55
AutoZone (Two-year warranty)
My local AutoZone said that there is only a two-year warranty, no longer the
limited lifetime warranty that some people have stated on.
PFC0203.20 PFC0447.10
$35 $109
RaceShopper.com Raceshopper.com
$40
TopBrakes.com
020320 020310
$35 $64
PartsAmerica.com PartsAmerica.com
From what I can tell, the Performance Friction Carbon-Metallic Z-Rated pad is
a recent new offering. Hence, it is still a bit hard to find, and is very
expensive, right now. Over the next 12 to 24 months, the price will come
down.
Reybestos Raymond RRD203M Professional Grade PGD203M
$19 $36
PartsAmerican.com PartsAmerica.com
PGD203M
$25
PartsPlusAutoStore.com
Wagner Quick Stop ZX203
$25
PartsPlusAutoStore.com
Hawk Performance are well-known brake pads, but I did not research prices
because Hawk does not make pads for XJ's 1989 and older.
Limited Lifetime Warranties on Brake Pads
-----------------------------------------
Limited lifetime warranties are common among chain stores. AutoZone offers
a lifetime warranty on their own brand, DuraLast, brake pads. VIP offers a
lifetime warranty on brands such as Morse and Friction Master. AutoZone and
VIP both stated that they will replace the brake pads even for normal
wearing-out over time.
Beware that some limited lifetime warranties only cover failure in the form
of manufacturer defects, and not for the brake pad wearing-out should you own
your car long enough. PartsAmerica is one that offers a limited lifetime
warranty but only for manufacturers defects, and not for wearing-out.
Plain Smooth vs Cross-Drilled/Slotted Rotors
--------------------------------------------
There is the great deal of discussion on whether smooth rotors or cross-
drilled/slotted rotors are the more cost effective solution.
Advantages of Smooth Rotors
---------------------------
Lower cost
More metal surface in contact with the brake pads.
Easier to machine/resurface as there are no holes or slots to catch
and possibly break the lathe cutting tool.
Do not wear the brake pads as much.
Stronger design, comparing on the basis of when made of the same material.
Less likely to fail through micro cracks which start around the holes.
No holes or slots to pick-up mud and small stones.
(I do not have a lot of experience off-roading, but this factor has been
mentioned on the forums. The heavy-duty off-roaders can comment on this.)
Advantages of Cross-Drilled/Slotted Rotors
------------------------------------------
Run cooler
Preferred for absolute high-speed racing conditions.
Gold, silver, red, blue cadmium-plated cross-drilled/slotted/dimpled rotors
look nice, since that is what you will find on high performance cars.
The slots scrape debris off the surface of the brake pads, like the edge of
a knife.
The holes provide an outlet for gases which form at high temperatures.
The holes provide an outlet for water to disappear quicker.
Better braking at very high temperatures.
In My Opinion, Plain Smooth Rotors Are the Better Choice
--------------------------------------------------------
For Cherokees used for street driving below posted speed limits, daily
driving, and off-road, I think the plain, smooth rotors are the better
choice.
Because high stopping power brake pads will tend to wear the rotors, it is
not worth spending two to five times as much money to go from plain smooth
rotors to cross-drilled, slotted, or dimpled rotors. Moreover, cross-drilled
or slotted rotors will wear our brake pads up to 20% faster. The additional
performance gain on an XJ using cross-drilled, slotted, or dimpled rotors is
not worth the money, in my opinion. If you are looking for maximum stopping
power, rotors as well as brake pads should be viewed as replacement items.
Sources of plain, smooth rotors for 1984 to 1989 4WD XJ's:
Brembo #27001
$46 plus shipping
TireRack.com
$53 free shipping
BuyBrakes.com
$51 free shipping
AutoBarn.com
I kind of like Brembo, from Italy, because they build many high performance
brake parts and have a long history of success in auto racing.
Raybestos Advanced Technology 3512
$53
PartsAmerica.com
The following websites have large selections and low prices on brake pads and
rotors:
AutoBarn.com
TopBrakes.com
PartsAmerica.com
PartsPlusAutoStore.com
RaceShopper.com
RotorsAndPads.com
TireRack.com
If you purchase your pads and rotors from the same place, you can save on
shipping costs. Some sellers offer free shipping for orders over $50 or over
$100.
I have not personally tested every brake pad and rotor listed here, but among
the large community of forum members, a large number of brake products will
be covered. You have your experience and knowledge, which I (and we) want to
hear about. I appreciate any comments or additions you want to post to this
thread. Moreover, feel free to send me e-mail at [email protected].
Orson P. Yancey, Boston, MA
Thread of Brake Pads and Rotors to Achieve Best Stopping Power
I would like to start a thread to place all information on brake pads and
rotors. Here, I have started with a focus on Pre-1990 XJ's which includes
Renix era XJ's. Other people can add information for 1990 and newer Jeeps.
Each person can contribute on the years of Xj's or other Jeeps that he or she
is most familiar with.
Recent projects and some future projects of mine are to rebuild or upgrade
various components of the brake system of my 1988 (RENIX) Jeep Cherokee, 4WD.
I have searched
and read hundreds of posts on the subject of brakes. I have decided to start a thread to compile the information. My objective is
to find the best (highest performance) stopping power brake pads and rotors
at a reasonably low price. This survey is not at all exhaustive, but as a
starting point to cover some of the common name brands.
The best ways to improve overall stopping ability in order of effectiveness
are:
1.) Use good tires that grip the road.
2.) Select brakes pads with a high coefficient of friction.
3.) Use larger rotors.
4.) Use cross-drilled rotors to improve convection heat transfer.
(This information is from the PowerStop website.)
Of course, if your budget is large, then the highest stopping power brake
systems are probably from Vanco, but only for 1990 and newer XJ's.
In brake pad design, there are many factors, but I weighted most highly
stopping power (indicated by coefficient of friction, called mu) as stopping
is the primary purpose of any brake system. Other secondary factors are:
High temperature fade
Life of the pad
Life of the rotor
Squeal or other noises
Dust generated
Depending on how and where you drive and whether you have expensive $200
alloy rims, you may feel that some of the above factors are also primary.
With stopping power as the primary objective, while being willing to put up
with a certain amount of undesirable secondary factors, the materials of
brake pads can be approximately rated like this, from lowest stopping power
to highest stopping power:
Organic
Ceramic
Semi-metallic
Carbon Metallic (Also called steel-carbon.)
Metallic
Please bear in mind, that as the stopping power (coefficient of friction)
increases; generally the brake pads wear faster, the brake pads wear the
rotors faster, the brakes make more noise, generate more dust, generate more
heat, and stop poorer at low temperatures. These are the trade-offs. There
are some nice charts at www.brakeperformance.com and www.powerstop.com.
Basically, you want enough braking power to be able to lock-up your tires
during the worst case scenario. This would be while running the largest
tires you expect to have on your vehicle, at high speed, on dry pavement
where tire grip is the highest, with the maximum about of weight you expect
to put on that axle due to cargo or trailer towing or the inclination of the
hill you are descending. Plus maybe add in a little extra needed braking
power to cover for when your brake pads and rotors are getting worn, when the
rotors are still wet from having crossed through the previous stream, or when
the brakes are hot after repeated use. Since conditions vary and you do not
know exactly the above factors in advance, it is best to err on the side of
having too much braking power than not enough.
There are a couple schools of thought on the most cost effective brake
system:
1. Use Mild Brake Pads and Preserve Your Expensive Rotors
----------------------------------------------------------
One school of thought believes the most cost effective solution is to
purchase the milder ceramic pads (usually more expensive than semi-metallic
pads) coupled with expensive plain smooth rotors or expensive cross-
drilled/slotted rotors. The guys with the $200 alloy rims like this solution
in order to reduce dust build-up and preserve the nice-looking cross-
drilled/slotted rotors, part of the wheel appeal.
2. Use Aggressive Brake Pads and Regularly Replace Low Cost Rotors
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Another school of thought believes the most cost effective solution is to
purchase brake pads with the highest possible stopping power (usually semi-
metallic) coupled with low cost, smooth rotors. This group of people believe
that rotors are to be regularly replaced at the same time as brake pads or
with every other set of brake pads. In my opinion, for a Jeep, I follow this
school of thought. However, I would not put on the lowest cost rotor from
China, but instead a decent quality plain smooth rotor.
What High Stopping Power Brake Pads I Found at Reasonable Prices
----------------------------------------------------------------
I searched for brake pads to fit years 1984 to 1989, which includes the RENIX
years. A common complaint from RENIX owners has been the difficulty in
finding high performance brake parts. The information included here can also
be useful for 1990 XJ's and on -- just find your correct part number.
I limited my search to relatively well-known, dependable brand names, who
care about and want to continue a good reputation. It is just not worth
taking the risk with some no-name brake products that may be from China or
you do not know where they are made. I realize that even some brand-name
products may have manufacturing plants in China, but at least the brand names
have a reputation to protect, are designed in America, and quality tested in
America.
Here is the list of brake pads for 1984 to 1989 4WD XJ's:
The price is per axle. The price is followed by the source website.
High Even Higher
Stopping Power Stopping Power
-------------- --------------
Bendix
Part # SUV 203SUV Fleet MetLok 203FM
Price $42 $40.50
Source AutoBarn.com AutoBarn.com
The Fleet MetLok is for truck and fleet use.
PowerSlot Steel-Carbon Metallic
Part # Z26-203 Z36-203
Price $50 $60
Source PowerStop.com PowerStop.com
$64.50 $54
BuyBrakes.com BuyBrakes.com
$45 $77
TopBrakes.com TopBrakes.com
The Z36 is for trucks, hauling, and towing.
Performance Friction Carbon-Metallic Carbon-Metallic Z-Rated
Part # 203 0447.10
Price $38 $155.70
Source RotorsAndPads.com PreformanceFriction.com
$55
AutoZone (Two-year warranty)
My local AutoZone said that there is only a two-year warranty, no longer the
limited lifetime warranty that some people have stated on
.PFC0203.20 PFC0447.10
$35 $109
RaceShopper.com Raceshopper.com
$40
TopBrakes.com
020320 020310
$35 $64
PartsAmerica.com PartsAmerica.com
From what I can tell, the Performance Friction Carbon-Metallic Z-Rated pad is
a recent new offering. Hence, it is still a bit hard to find, and is very
expensive, right now. Over the next 12 to 24 months, the price will come
down.
Reybestos Raymond RRD203M Professional Grade PGD203M
$19 $36
PartsAmerican.com PartsAmerica.com
PGD203M
$25
PartsPlusAutoStore.com
Wagner Quick Stop ZX203
$25
PartsPlusAutoStore.com
Hawk Performance are well-known brake pads, but I did not research prices
because Hawk does not make pads for XJ's 1989 and older.
Limited Lifetime Warranties on Brake Pads
-----------------------------------------
Limited lifetime warranties are common among chain stores. AutoZone offers
a lifetime warranty on their own brand, DuraLast, brake pads. VIP offers a
lifetime warranty on brands such as Morse and Friction Master. AutoZone and
VIP both stated that they will replace the brake pads even for normal
wearing-out over time.
Beware that some limited lifetime warranties only cover failure in the form
of manufacturer defects, and not for the brake pad wearing-out should you own
your car long enough. PartsAmerica is one that offers a limited lifetime
warranty but only for manufacturers defects, and not for wearing-out.
Plain Smooth vs Cross-Drilled/Slotted Rotors
--------------------------------------------
There is the great deal of discussion on whether smooth rotors or cross-
drilled/slotted rotors are the more cost effective solution.
Advantages of Smooth Rotors
---------------------------
Lower cost
More metal surface in contact with the brake pads.
Easier to machine/resurface as there are no holes or slots to catch
and possibly break the lathe cutting tool.
Do not wear the brake pads as much.
Stronger design, comparing on the basis of when made of the same material.
Less likely to fail through micro cracks which start around the holes.
No holes or slots to pick-up mud and small stones.
(I do not have a lot of experience off-roading, but this factor has been
mentioned on the forums. The heavy-duty off-roaders can comment on this.)
Advantages of Cross-Drilled/Slotted Rotors
------------------------------------------
Run cooler
Preferred for absolute high-speed racing conditions.
Gold, silver, red, blue cadmium-plated cross-drilled/slotted/dimpled rotors
look nice, since that is what you will find on high performance cars.
The slots scrape debris off the surface of the brake pads, like the edge of
a knife.
The holes provide an outlet for gases which form at high temperatures.
The holes provide an outlet for water to disappear quicker.
Better braking at very high temperatures.
In My Opinion, Plain Smooth Rotors Are the Better Choice
--------------------------------------------------------
For Cherokees used for street driving below posted speed limits, daily
driving, and off-road, I think the plain, smooth rotors are the better
choice.
Because high stopping power brake pads will tend to wear the rotors, it is
not worth spending two to five times as much money to go from plain smooth
rotors to cross-drilled, slotted, or dimpled rotors. Moreover, cross-drilled
or slotted rotors will wear our brake pads up to 20% faster. The additional
performance gain on an XJ using cross-drilled, slotted, or dimpled rotors is
not worth the money, in my opinion. If you are looking for maximum stopping
power, rotors as well as brake pads should be viewed as replacement items.
Sources of plain, smooth rotors for 1984 to 1989 4WD XJ's:
Brembo #27001
$46 plus shipping
TireRack.com
$53 free shipping
BuyBrakes.com
$51 free shipping
AutoBarn.com
I kind of like Brembo, from Italy, because they build many high performance
brake parts and have a long history of success in auto racing.
Raybestos Advanced Technology 3512
$53
PartsAmerica.com
The following websites have large selections and low prices on brake pads and
rotors:
AutoBarn.com
TopBrakes.com
PartsAmerica.com
PartsPlusAutoStore.com
RaceShopper.com
RotorsAndPads.com
TireRack.com
If you purchase your pads and rotors from the same place, you can save on
shipping costs. Some sellers offer free shipping for orders over $50 or over
$100.
I have not personally tested every brake pad and rotor listed here, but among
the large community of forum members, a large number of brake products will
be covered. You have your experience and knowledge, which I (and we) want to
hear about. I appreciate any comments or additions you want to post to this
thread. Moreover, feel free to send me e-mail at [email protected].
Orson P. Yancey, Boston, MA
Last edited:
I know they make them for the XJ, just curious. May have to go for yellows though. Running Motul 600 in it with f/r upgraded discs.
