Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread
you know you are hacking it when ken corrects you
As funny as this is, you know I do things three ways.
1. FIRI
2. slap it together incredibly ugly without spending a cent to last until...
3. perfectionist who builds things bulletproof and far above code requirements
Usually what people see is 1 and 2. Here's 3:
Halfway through running the feed from the ATS to the main panel:
Main panel.
ATS.
Everything:
That's 3/4" plywood, I repointed everything under the furring strips to mount it, and the whole thing is held up with four 1/2" hotdip carriage bolts cemented several inches into the wall. My kind of overbuilding. IIRC I used conduit like twice the diameter I needed to for the cable fill I had, as well.
Honestly, why is it so bad if you turn off the main breaker? It's the same wire that you'd run a welder or whatever on if it was hard wired across the garage.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I have yet to have someone be able to explain why it's so bad as long as you're smart about how you do it and what you run. I've even thought about getting a grounding rod for the generator. I feel like that would be better/safer/cleaner than a fancy switch.
As an EE I have no problem with what you are doing. It will work and it will work well. It won't catch fire.
As someone who understands why codes were put in place and how stupid people are, I want absolutely nothing to do with what you are doing because it allows a single mistake by a tired, uninformed human who may have just gotten home from a 12 hour day at work and is fumbling around in the basement with their cellphone as a flashlight to kill them or any poor bastard of a lineman who happens to be touching the wrong "dead" line when they do it.
As for grounding - you need to be careful.
As I understand it (Bradley will probably correct me here, I asked several electricians and got several answers before I installed mine) you need:
1 neutral bonding location, and one only. Generator neutral, service neutral, and neutral to panel are bonded together here and do not bond to ground. If the transfer switch is a neutral-switching type, you don't bond the neutrals and the transfer switch connects your panel's neutral to whichever power source it's using. With non neutral switching transfer switches, your local code may require you to have a utility-accessible disconnect switch which disconnects the neutral and can be shut off and locked off until utility personnel decide it's OK to turn you back on. This (as I understand it) is to prevent neutral backfeeding in the case of a floating neutral in customer wiring.
1 ground bonding location, and one only. If multiple ground sources are used (i.e. water pipe, cement foundation rebar, ground rods, etc etc) they must all be bonded at the same location. This location is to be the same enclosure or panel as the service disconnecting means are located in. This causes some confusion when you're talking about an ATS that doesn't switch the neutral and have a main panel with an integral breaker - is the ATS your service disconnect? Is the main breaker your service disconnect? This is the particular point that caused a lot of disagreement with the electricians I asked. Since my ATS doesn't permit manual transfer control when only one source of power is available (it will override whatever you do and switch to the active source) we ended up coming to the agreement that this meant it wasn't the service disconnect, leaving me bonding my grounds in the service panel.
1 and one only ground-neutral bond. This is to be placed in the same enclosure or panel as the service disconnect as well. It's usually a big ass green screw that goes through the neutral bar into the back of the breaker panel, bonding it to ground. This should NOT be installed in any subpanels.
Eventually I am going to upgrade to a 200 amp panel with a 100 amp breaker to feed the ATS and my current panel. All nonessential (welder, machine tools, etc etc) circuits will be on the 200 amp panel, all essentials will be on the 100 amp panel and therefore backed up by the generator and ATS. I'll be putting in a service disconnect as well most likely and either that or the 200 amp panel's main will become the clearly defined service disconnect, which means no one will have room to disagree.
I think the real issue is romex is designed to be protected in wall and not moved around (solid strand) where as other, proper, generator or welder cables are stranded and designed to be moved around.
As long as you are smart about shutting off the main breaker there is not problem. It only becomes and issue when you sell the house or have your significant other do it when you are away and they may or may not be smart enough to shut the main off. Being that the dryer outlet is usually on, potentially all someone has to do is plug in the generator and they never have to touch the panel and thus causing a large hazard for someone else on the street or your neighbor's house. Label it properly and have it on a different breaker than the dryer so that you have to go into the panel to activate and it isn't as bad.
Hey we all do some things that aren't to code. I ain't busting you that bad (besides the romex :laugh3
Agreed.
