The Badgett Blog

[dsdtdemon]

So it's definitely to early to call this a "build thread," but all the I've been doing is making me feel a bit aperwork. So I figured I'd start this to gather my thoughts and get some opinions.

I introduced myself in a previous thread but for completeness sake:
My name is Bryan and I recently picked my first XJ.
1991, bone stock, 210k miles
4.0 HO to AW15 to NP242
Non-Disco D30/D35

This machine is just clean as a whistle and the only signs of age is the sagging headliner cloth and some interior trim stuff. As Tim pointed out, it looks as if the seats had hardly been sat in.

My short term goal is to meet requirements for this year's SierraFest. Essentially, I have to get me some rockrails and a front tow point.

I went ahead and threw some coil spacers in the front and RE extended shackles in the rear, but really nothing else.

I have a rough idea of where I ultimately want to go with it and how I want it to function, though I suppose an end final product does not truly exist in this hobby. I want something that I can take down the trails but also still load up and go camping or tailgaiting or what have you. Ultimately, I want to stop once highway safety gets severely compromised.

To that end, I'm thinking 4.5" lift with 33x12.50's is where I want the suspension. With that in mind, I've been doing a fair bit of research into what that actually requires and I've compiled a rough "to do" list.

4.5" lift kit- as this is my first build, I'd prefer to do a kit as opposed to piecing something together. Looking at the RC 4.5" X-Flex or the RE 4.5" superflex kit.
HnT SYE - still exploring my options here. Looking at the RE kit.
Replace rear axle (though I don't know with what yet)
Build up the D30
Gear to 4.56
ZJ/WJ brake swap
Under armor (skids etc)
Long Arm (someday???)
bumpers
tire carrier (I'm not a fan of tires on roof racks)

Where I'm getting confused though is the order in which to do things. As money is an object I would like to space things out a bit and work it as a gradual project. (maybe one project per month). I know that the lift kit and the tires are the big $$ and I can't really space that out, but what do I need to do before and what can I do after? Some stuff I read suggests that some people never upgrade their axle, while others make it seem like the 35 will snap backing down the driveway on 33's. If I lift before i go bigger on the tires, will I look like this?

Anyway, any input is greatly appreciated and I look forward to meeting more of you guys out on the trail.

BTW, Eric's book is absolutely phenomenal! If you read this, Thanks!!!

 

[the_weirdo]

Welcome Bryan! Hope to see you at Sierra Fest. Make sure you come out even if your rig isn't built (but get tow points just in case) - come camp with us and take an open seat on the harder stuff (if open), there are also a few easier trails you can run.

Read stuff and ask questions. Many people are willing to help lift your rig. It may be cheaper to piece a lift together - go put some "needed" ads in the For Sale section. Leaf springs, coils, trackbar, etc and you are done. Its been done before.

 

[blondejoncherokee]

4.5" lift kit- as this is my first build, I'd prefer to do a kit as opposed to piecing something together. Looking at the RC 4.5" X-Flex or the RE 4.5"
superflex kit.
HnT SYE - still exploring my options here. Looking at the RE kit.
i woudlnt even worry about an SYE right off the bat. i would lift it, and if you need one afterwards (after setting your pinoin angle equal to rear tcase output shaft angle) and if you still have vibes, then get one. if you do it right , you wont need a sye. the bonus of a Hnt sye is not spilling al the fluid everywhere when you lose a shaft, dont get nearly as much strength gain as the full sye , which can be bought for as low as 169$ from PORC , which i almost did.

Replace rear axle (though I don't know with what yet)
get a ford 8.8 , get an open one and do a spartan, or get a LS and call it done. get a fuffstuff swap kit , and a HD cover from them too, and pinion flange from any driveline shop and call it good.

Build up the D30
Gear to 4.56

ZJ/WJ brake swap
8.8s have rear disc, i would wait for the WJ swap until you have an extra 900$ after youre locked and geared on 35s, if you want better brakes do the ZJ proportioning valve with ford 8.8 rear disc axle, new front calipers and pads and rotors and call it good.

Under armor (skids etc)
make a belly pan or buy one, you can use 1/4" flat steel and x3 angle iron to make your own all bolt on if you cant weld

get a factory gas skid at pnp for like 20$


get soe decent steering
ZJ stuff OTK with the goferit inserts on the driver side, dump the sway bars front and rear, dont even waste money on quick discos.



Long Arm (someday???)
dont worry about these. worry about gears, lockers, sliders, belly pan, gas skid, decent steering, armor, steering, gears lockers, maybe some chromos.

bumpers
LandL fab had cheap front winch bumpers when i got mine a while ago.
same for the rear.
tire carrier (I'm not a fan of tires on roof racks)

 

[dsdtdemon]

i woudlnt even worry about an SYE right off the bat. i would lift it, and if you need one afterwards (after setting your pinoin angle equal to rear tcase output shaft angle) and if you still have vibes, then get one. if you do it right , you wont need a sye. the bonus of a Hnt sye is not spilling al the fluid everywhere when you lose a shaft, dont get nearly as much strength gain as the full sye , which can be bought for as low as 169$ from PORC , which i almost did.

That's good to know. I was under the impression that I had to SYE before I lifted. Though with the 242 it appears I'm limited to the H&T.

get a ford 8.8 , get an open one and do a spartan, or get a LS and call it done. get a fuffstuff swap kit , and a HD cover from them too, and pinion flange from any driveline shop and call it good.

I was leaning towards the 8.8. My only hesitation is that I don't know how to weld yet. I'm taking a class at the JC next semester, though and would like to start doing my own welding.
My initial plan is to upgrade once I start snapping 35 shafts. Or should I do this before going with the bigger tires?

LandL fab had cheap front winch bumpers when i got mine a while ago.
same for the rear.

Thanks, I'll have to look into this.

 

[98XJLongBuild]

Well all i can say is good luck. You might want to face reality now and not let it blind side you like it did to me. Im not trying to scare you or anything, but once you Get the addiction of the heep world youll understand. So dont think that youll wanna keep this as a daily dri er and that youll be happy with what youve got..

I got my XJ with a 6.5" lift with 32" tires dana 30 & 35. I thought that i would be happy with that but bog oh boy was i wrong. After twisting that heep into a twisler. I sold her and am in the planning stages to build a 30,000.00 rig.

But any how welcome and be Sure to do some sort of wrenching once a week. Its good for your health. Hahahah.

 

[dsdtdemon]

But any how welcome and be Sure to do some sort of wrenching once a week. Its good for your health. Hahahah.

That's kind of my goal.
By no means do I want a DD, but (at least at the moment) I don't want a trailer rig either. I still want to load a couple buddies up and go camping.

I'm definitely addicted to the wrenching. But ideally I'd like to learn the jeep and how it drives and handles as I build and upgrade. If money was no object, I would go bigger in slow stages ie, lift to three inches on 31's and get good at that, and only once I've done all I can do there, go bigger.

 

[blondejoncherokee]

Originally Posted by blondejoncherokee
i woudlnt even worry about an SYE right off the bat. i would lift it, and if you need one afterwards (after setting your pinoin angle equal to rear tcase output shaft angle) and if you still have vibes, then get one. if you do it right , you wont need a sye. the bonus of a Hnt sye is not spilling al the fluid everywhere when you lose a shaft, dont get nearly as much strength gain as the full sye , which can be bought for as low as 169$ from PORC , which i almost did.
That's good to know. I was under the impression that I had to SYE before I lifted. Though with the 242 it appears I'm limited to the H&T.

ya i know a lot of guys running 4.5"+ lift or more with no tcase drop, no sye, and no vibes.

Quote:
get a ford 8.8 , get an open one and do a spartan, or get a LS and call it done. get a fuffstuff swap kit , and a HD cover from them too, and pinion flange from any driveline shop and call it good.
I was leaning towards the 8.8. My only hesitation is that I don't know how to weld yet. I'm taking a class at the JC next semester, though and would like to start doing my own welding.
My initial plan is to upgrade once I start snapping 35 shafts. Or should I do this before going with the bigger tires?

i honestly would say just run the 35 until you get the 8.8,and run it knowing you'll be replacing it. just don't put any money into it, thats all. you can do your first few stages of the build with that thing on there and when it comes time to gear and lock axles, have the 8.8 geared while its off the rig, it'll be cheaper at most shops.

i ran a non c cip 35 for a year on 33" swampers, but i also did wheel hardcore trails then, just the easy stuff, mostly for camping. i actually miss those days when it was fun to run around on 33s an stock gears, the build was nothing other regular maintenance. i was getting 17-19mpg with 33s and stock gears, and the thing had tons of power. had the rustys air tube on it when i bought it.

98XJlongbuild is right though, you will get the bug eventually. i highly recommend not stressing about gears and lockers right away, because once you give a mouse 4.88s and lockers he will want 35s and chromos, once you give a mouse 35s and chromos front and rear he will want a full cage and a fully plated frame and an atlas. once you give him that he will want one tons and 39s. get the idea? you can pretty much every trail in the sierras with a factory LS rear , decent steering, a decent lift, armor, sliders, and some 33s.

Quote:
LandL fab had cheap front winch bumpers when i got mine a while ago.
same for the rear.
Thanks, I'll have to look into this.
their prices might have gone up.

heres what i would do if i started fresh all over again.
try to keep it moderate and cheap.
4.5 " 33s dump all sway bars, ZJ tie rod, OTK insert on driver, decent control arms, decent full leaf packs, i wouldn't do an sye unless i needed it. plan for an 8.8 in the rear, get a front lock right, ruffstuff covers. truss and gusset the front axle, LCA skids. bilstien 5100s , 5150s or whatever all around, durango rear brake line , GMC 2wd 3/41995 front brake lines (i run all those brakelines now) build a belly pan, throttle spacer, and year or so later look for a cheap 8.8 with 4.10s open, throw a lunchbox in there(or find one with a LS) , and regear the front to 4.10s. probably run 33s or 35s and trim fenders. i would go with building my own bumpers or some cheap used ones, and call it done .

 

[CAJJ93XJ]

4.0 HO to AW15 to NP242
Non-Disco D30/D35.

wait. what transmission do you have? lol

Looking at the RC 4.5" X-Flex or the RE 4.5"

after stressing about my own lift kit I found that piecing one together is the best option. you get to customize along the way, and it ends up being a bit cheaper. so grab some coils here, some OME leaf packs there, some shackles to your liking, etc.

Where I'm getting confused though is the order in which to do things.

I'm in the middle of my build. my first build. I decided to do EVERYTHING all at once. it's very stressful having expensive parts strewn all over the place. if I had a redo, my order would be:

lift/ tires/ wheels
steering upgrades
rock sliders
axle swap/ gears/ lockers (all at once)
then any and all armor and recovery you desire
good luck!

 

[blondejoncherokee]

yes he is right . stages are important. that way you can get used to it, work out bugs before the next stage, dial in each stage, spread cost over larger time period, and possibly change things up before the next stage.
i would not be surprised if you ended up getting rid of all that RC stuff fairly quickly for some decent parts. thats why we all recumbent piecing it together.

good shocks, good track bar and good steering steering will make a big difference over the RC stuff. i would probably run their coils and leaves for a short period of time as well.

Re 4.5 coils at mudflaps
75$

leaves:
bastard pack to start is not a bad idea, plus you can get some cheap shackles , and build a 3-3.5" bastard pack and some 1" -1.5" shackles
mudflaps has 3.5" RE full packs for like 113$ a pack, or you can build a bustard pack for under 50$

bilstien 5100s all around new
300$ (even cheaper used, one guy on here has some 5150s posted for a great price right now)


good HD track bar with bracket (RE is pretty cheap on mud flaps, or buy used)
185$ with bracket.

uppers and lowers
i would wait until you find some cheap used ones, and even run stock ones until you do.
i cant justify spending like 300$ on short arms. you'll end up finding uppers and lowers together for dirt cheap. or find a set of drop brackets for cheap and run your stock arms for a while.


brakelines
dakota rear
GMC 2wd 3/4 ton front
spend about 50$ on that from auto zone.

ZJ tie rod
100$ new at like auto zone

goferit insert
17$

make some rear extended bump stop mounts
use hockey pucks up front for bump stops



junk the sway bars since you have decent steering, coils, and shocks

tires and wheels
keep an eye out in the forums and on craigslist for some decent 33s or 35s already on rims to get you up in the air

pnp for gas skid

 

[dsdtdemon]

wait. what transmission do you have? lol

:doh: AW4 - Freudian slip i guess...
Proofing is not my strong suit.

 

[CAJJ93XJ]

.
Re 4.5 coils at mudflaps
75$

by the way.. found those RE boomerangs on seriousoffroad for $85.54
and also a pair of RE 4.5" coils for $67.69. then the 5% discount code on top of that
so start recommending seriousoffroad instead! haha

 

[blondejoncherokee]

oh wow those are killer prices , ill def start recommending serious instead. i had no idea!!!

 

[NorCalChris]

by the way.. found those RE boomerangs on seriousoffroad for $85.54
and also a pair of RE 4.5" coils for $67.69. then the 5% discount code on top of that
so start recommending seriousoffroad instead! haha

Yep, he is one of our sponsors.

 

[dsdtdemon]

So after reading the replies, I've been convinced to do the lift from scratch. Brown Santa brought me my RE 4.5" coils yesterday, and a trip to the pick'n'pull this weekend will hopefully yield an S10 pack.
(Aside: Shout out to Serious Offroad. Order placed Sunday night arrived on Wednesday.)
Ordered my JCR stage 3 sliders today, so I'm excited for those.

In addition to shocks, what else is actually required to do the lift, and then what is strongly recommended? Also, will I be able to do the alignment myself?

Basically I know I'm going to get excited/anxious to install the stuff and I'm wondering what I need to collect first vs. what I can install in stages.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[KTMqdracer]

I recently got a zj tierod for $10 from pnp. I'd suggest that vs spending the money on a new one. If you take your time and look around you can find one with good ends. If you go with new then you might as well get a tierod from Ironmanfab etc

 

[CAJJ93XJ]

In addition to shocks, what else is actually required to do the lift, and then what is strongly recommended? Also, will I be able to do the alignment myself?

Thanks for all the help!

adj. track bar/ drop bracket, brake lines, upper/lower control arms, shackles, shocks and more

 

[Jeep450r]

I have some springs lying around. There are a mix of stock XJ springs, s10's dakota's and probably a few random ones. I don't know which is which other than the XJ springs. Come on over, jump around on them until you find what you want, and take some of them or all of them - free.

I also have a full xj pack with an extra bottom leaf not pictured.

Might save ya a few bucks and a trip to the pick n pull. I'm in Pleasanton.

 

[dsdtdemon]

I have some springs lying around. There are a mix of stock XJ springs, s10's dakota's and probably a few random ones. I don't know which is which other than the XJ springs. Come on over, jump around on them until you find what you want, and take some of them or all of them - free.

Might save ya a few bucks and a trip to the pick n pull. I'm in Pleasanton.

That would be great! You around this weekend?

 

[dsdtdemon]

So after some more reading and thinking about the geometry, are the following conclusions correct?

If I install the springs, shocks, and brake lines, I can lower get the truck of the jackstands and move between the garage and driveway. Otherwise it will be mostly undriveable with unpredictable handling, a cockeyed axle location, noticeable bumpsteer, death wobble.
Installing an adjustable trackbar and matching the angle to the drag link will fix the side to side axle location and fix the unpredictable handling and bumpsteer. However it will still have harsh ride, a bad castor angle, and a high potential for DW until I deal with the control arms
From here the geometry is good, but the tie rod is a weak link, so I upgrade to a ZJ tie rod. Also before I the winter comes and I'm driving through the mountains to Tahoe, I will want to reconnect the front sway bar with some sway bar disconnects

I'm confused about my options with the control arms. I notice that the RE kit comes with new adjustable UCA and fixed LCA, and no drop brackets. Is the LCA longer than the stock one? I don't think I want the drop brackets because I don't want to lose the clearance.
I'm also reading that often just the lowers get replaced. Are the adjustable worth the cost difference? Can I do the LCAs now and the UCAs later?

Thanks!

 

[Rammin97]

by the way.. found those RE boomerangs on seriousoffroad for $85.54
and also a pair of RE 4.5" coils for $67.69. then the 5% discount code on top of that
so start recommending seriousoffroad instead! haha

May be a stupid question but is that for a pair or just one spring? it doesn't specify it on the site anywhere.. Thanks