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Stock Front DS Problems

2KXJJEEP

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Russellville, KY
Has anybody had any problems out of there stock front drive shaft having slack in the slip yoke "side to side". Iv replaced everything that u can on the thing and i still have vib around 55 and up...BTW im running 33/12.50, 4.56 gears & a aussie locker up front
 
sorry i should have said this in the beginning...i never had this problem until i installed the 4.56 gears and yes the gears r set perfect my pinion angle is good somebody told me that i could have torqued the drive shaft to hard with that low of a gear and what does the caster have to do with the DS...just asking not tryin to be a d***...BTW 4.5" lift
 
Tourqued the drive shaft?...No, Your reduction is after the input of the driveshaft, possible theory if you regeared the transfer case I suppose....

It's caster angle. I had the exact problem when I went to 4:56s. No vibs before, vibes after.

With the 4:56s you’re now spinning the driveshaft faster inducing vibrations at a lower speed. When you lift an xj you have to make a compromise between caster and drive shaft angle. You need less caster to turn the pinion angle up to make the drive shaft angle better
You need to measure caster, you can’t guess it. Either way though you need less, this will be accomplished by making the lower control arms shorter or the uppers longer. I got to about 4.5 degrees of caster and moved the vibes up to 80 MPH.

But keep in mind, less caster will lead to a wondering/ loose feeling in the steering. That’s why it's a compromise you just have to play with it. BTW stock is ~6.5 degrees.

Or you could drop 1K + on a lock out hub converson....
 
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The slip portion of the front driveshaft can definately have excess play in it. I have three stock front driveshafts and one is much tighter than the other two in that regard. I took it to a driveline shop to have it balanced and they said the amount of play in the slip portion is still more than ideal.

I'm using a front driveshaft in the rear with my hack-n-tap SYE and have been fighting excess vibes at highway speed. In my case the pinion angle is dialed in, but it's definately worth checking yours, if it's off it will cause vibes even if the driveshaft is ok.
 
How do you know it's the slip yoke that is bad? Could be the u-joints or center ball in the double cardan joint. The center ball went bad in my Tom Woods shaft and caused some serious noise and vibration.

Did you try just getting another DS from the junkyard?
 
I had a problem with my front driveshaft and figured out that the slip yoke had side to side play in it. I got a used one from Pick N Pull for $30.00 had all the moving parts replaced at a drive line shop for about $75.00 and slapped it in no problems. I use the other drive shaft as a spair.
 
Fixed length control arms for a 6.5" lift on only a 4.5" lift would cause excessive caster, and would point the pinion angle down enough that I could see having some problems with vibrations at highway speed. That may be the problem in this case... check your caster angle with the rig sitting level by putting an angle finder on the top of one of the ball joints and seeing what it's at and ride height... and post some pics of your front driveline angle.

However, I don't think it's entirely appropriate to compromise caster for front driveline angle especially on a rig that's driven at highway speeds, that's not lifted to the sky. In my experience, there's plenty of "wiggle room" in how straight the front pinion angle is pointed at the T-case, and I always shoot for the factory 6-7 degrees of caster rather than try to point the driveline up. I've never had driveline vibrations from the front DS on any XJ lifted up to 6", including an XJ with 5.5" coils and a LOW PINION 44. The angle on the front does not have to be perfectly pointed at the front t-case output just because it's a CV driveline.

As far as whether you have wear in the slip... it's perfectly possible for the slip to wear out. If there's excessive play in it, it should be replaced. They usually have that blue plastic stuff coated on the slip so that it's a nice, tight fit. I doubt this is your problem though, I'm going to guess it's due to the fixed length CA's that are for a lift height higher than what you have, which is changing the caster to something more than 7 degrees and pointing the pinion angle down TOO far.
 
FYI-- I did the same thing, big tires, regeared from 3.55 to 4.56's. Vibes got nasty from 55+.

It's gone with the front driveshaft removed.

I have changed the front shaft 3 times. The most recent one is a Tom Woods shaft. (So no, it's not the slip yoke.) I also got the TW shaft rebalanced, no help.

Other things adjusted-
-Pinion angle above, below and at zero degrees
-Front axle rebuilt
-All torques checked
-Motor/tranny mounts replaced

Still fighting the vibes. I think it may be the front bearings on the tcase.
 
Fixed length control arms for a 6.5" lift on only a 4.5" lift would cause excessive caster, and would point the pinion angle down enough that I could see having some problems with vibrations at highway speed. That may be the problem in this case... check your caster angle with the rig sitting level by putting an angle finder on the top of one of the ball joints and seeing what it's at and ride height... and post some pics of your front driveline angle.

However, I don't think it's entirely appropriate to compromise caster for front driveline angle especially on a rig that's driven at highway speeds, that's not lifted to the sky. In my experience, there's plenty of "wiggle room" in how straight the front pinion angle is pointed at the T-case, and I always shoot for the factory 6-7 degrees of caster rather than try to point the driveline up. I've never had driveline vibrations from the front DS on any XJ lifted up to 6", including an XJ with 5.5" coils and a LOW PINION 44. The angle on the front does not have to be perfectly pointed at the front t-case output just because it's a CV driveline.

As far as whether you have wear in the slip... it's perfectly possible for the slip to wear out. If there's excessive play in it, it should be replaced. They usually have that blue plastic stuff coated on the slip so that it's a nice, tight fit. I doubt this is your problem though, I'm going to guess it's due to the fixed length CA's that are for a lift height higher than what you have, which is changing the caster to something more than 7 degrees and pointing the pinion angle down TOO far.

Longer fixed length arms ... if matched for a specific lift ... shouldn't create that much caster issues. It will push the front axle forward, but if you haven't changed any mounts things should still be in the ballpark. Definitely not ideal but still within reason ... now if you actually have less that 4.5" of actual lift achieved then yeah you'll run into some big problems as the caster chage will be more dramatic. Add a 1" spacer in front and those arms will be within 1/4" of proper length.

Now a worn out slip shaft will create all sorts of vibration issues as the shaft will no longer spin true.
Checking is simple, put the vehicle in neutral, grab drive shaft just above the slip shaft and wiggle, watching the dust shield where the shaft goes in. Any play at that point indicates wear, it should be a tight solid point and move in unison with the shaft as a whole. As it wears you will start to get vibes at higher shaft rpms (so on the highway cruising) ... as it gets worse you'll get vibes at slower shaft speeds which will become apparent at lower road speeds. when you get to about 1/8" of deflection at the shaft you'll have a noticable vibe at all speeds, and also some other interesting noises as the shaft will tend to 'snap into line' periodicly with throttle input (wanna guess how I know this little bit? and yeah, I bought it like that). But by that time you've already fixed it right? A worn slip will have more of a rumbling sound to the vibe, as the shaft is literally wlaaowing back and forth on it's axis ... it will get worse ... the only recourse once it's worn is to replace either the shaft or the slip shaft itself. If it's not too bad it'll make a great trail spare, but that's about it unless you replace the slip/yoke portion of the shaft. Usually it's the shaft that wears out first - the blue coating or wear coat is likley gone and thus the play, if you catch it early enough just the shaft can be replaced, but once it starts wearing into the yoke then your on the tag for both parts or a whole new shaft.

Also even a balanced shaft is not always balanced to the right rpm ... most shops will balance to 1500 or so rpm ...

Your highest shaft speeds will be on the highway in OD where you'll see .75x engine RPM's at the shaft. So a cruising rpm of 2250 puts the shaft at 1687 rpm if you can get the shaft spin balanced to 2500 rpm you should be good past 3000 rpm in OD (which would put the shaft at 2250rpm). And, unless you hate your motor you don't what that and so it will put the vibe zone well above any realistic driveshaft speeds.
 
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Your highest shaft speeds will be on the highway in OD where you'll see .75x engine RPM's at the shaft. So a cruising rpm of 2250 puts the shaft at 1687 rpm if you can get the shaft spin balanced to 2500 rpm you should be good past 3000 rpm in OD (which would put the shaft at 2250rpm). And, unless you hate your motor you don't what that and so it will put the vibe zone well above any realistic driveshaft speeds.


Actually, I thibk it is the other way; i.e the transmission output shaft spins faster than the input shaft. With a .75 ratio over drive, the engine will,... say turning 3,000 RPM and the output to the drive shaft will spin at 4,000+ RPM.

3,000 / .75 = 4,000


I think I have this correct,... show me where I went wrong.
 
FYI-- I did the same thing, big tires, regeared from 3.55 to 4.56's. Vibes got nasty from 55+.

It's gone with the front driveshaft removed.

I have changed the front shaft 3 times. The most recent one is a Tom Woods shaft. (So no, it's not the slip yoke.) I also got the TW shaft rebalanced, no help.

Other things adjusted-
-Pinion angle above, below and at zero degrees
-Front axle rebuilt
-All torques checked
-Motor/tranny mounts replaced

Still fighting the vibes. I think it may be the front bearings on the tcase.

Strange. I've never had any vibes with 35s and 4.56's. I've driven 70+ on the highway many times without any ill effects. Still have the stock driveshaft at 148k miles, don't even think the u-joints have been changed.
 
im going to put the stock LCA's on and see how the pinion angle looks. i kn it wont be perfect but i just want to see if it looks any better and if it dont vib ill either buy some 6.5" coils or some different LCA's
 
Actually, I thibk it is the other way; i.e the transmission output shaft spins faster than the input shaft. With a .75 ratio over drive, the engine will,... say turning 3,000 RPM and the output to the drive shaft will spin at 4,000+ RPM.

3,000 / .75 = 4,000


I think I have this correct,... show me where I went wrong.

Nope you had it, sorry folks I had another brainfart.
 
Strange. I've never had any vibes with 35s and 4.56's. I've driven 70+ on the highway many times without any ill effects. Still have the stock driveshaft at 148k miles, don't even think the u-joints have been changed.

With 35's, you are spinning slower on the freeway than I am.

I think I had a bad DS or something, drove it too long like that, and the vibes wrecked my bearings in the transfer case.
 
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