Stinky FAB VS. Rusty's Steering/WJ Conversion

[hjeepxj]

I went through the list, however I'm now noticing something on Dallas's page. He states:


-7075 Aluminum tie rod with offset tie rod ends
-7075 Aluminum Drag link with new MOOG tie rod ends
-7075 Aluminum track bar with Cromoly heim joints (Johnny joint optional on frame end)

But then lower down states:

-Optional Upgrade to 7075 Aluminum steering links is available

I assumed the $1,850.00 price tag was for 7075 AL? Is 7075 more expensive?

From his list:

-NEW WJ steering knuckles already machined for over the top 1ton steering - Covered That
-NEW Pitman arm machined for 1ton TRE Covered That
-NEW double drilled Centric brake rotors, Centric calipers, and hardware - Covered That
-NEW Timken Unit bearing Hubs - Covered That
-NEW Dana Spicer Ball joints - Covered That
-7075 Aluminum tie rod with offset tie rod ends - Covered That
-7075 Aluminum Drag link with new MOOG tie rod ends - Covered That
-7075 Aluminum track bar with Cromoly heim joints (Johnny joint optional on frame end) - Covered That
-SFR Lower Track bar mount
-SFR Upper Track bar mount
-SFR Over the Top Sway Bar brackets
-SFR Sway Bar Relocation Brackets
-SFR Bearing Spacers - Covered That
-SFR Spring Bucket Supports
-Necessary hardware

So, the only things I left out are stuff that can be decently easily fabbed (for myself):
- Upper and Lower Panhard mounts
- Swar Bar Brackets and Relocation Brackets

Otherwise...hardware.

I'm not really trying to knock his kit, it's good stuff. But yes, it can be done for less than half of that with top quality parts as MANY MANY people have done. The swap is nothing remotely new, he's just one of the few who's done an "all inclusive" type package.

It's small stuff that Dallas currently just is going to compete with some of the larger guys.

For example:

7/8" x 3/4" Rod End RHT
From Dallas - $30
From Ruffstuff - $19.90, before 20% off

Small stuff like that adds up...which guys who are building a D30 and not tons really tend to notice.

This is the reason I posted this - I sincerely value your input.

The thing I'm grappling with on your above post is, on top of your $760, I would have to buy all of the bracketry, I don't know the prices of the upper and lower trackbar brackets, but I'm assuming it adds ~$200. Your example did not include drilled rotors (added $) I also would need help fabbing the steering.

I *think* I am comfortable spending an extra ~$600-$900 to 1) get it all from one place 2) Not have to dink around with fabbing the steering/trackbar 3) rest assured that it was designed to work together 4) Support a vendor

I am literally still contemplating it though.

 

[rockclimber]

freerider, do us a favor,

keep close track of what you actually spend on your build. and post up your final price.

take some photos of the process, and try to keep track of the time you spend on it.

it would be nice to see the comparison between a top shelf all inclusive kit and the DIY method from someone who is as good of a fabricator as you (we all followed the buggy build, we know what you're capable of)

 

[freerider15]

This is the reason I posted this - I sincerely value your input.

The thing I'm grappling with on your above post is, on top of your $760, I would have to buy all of the bracketry, I don't know the prices of the upper and lower trackbar brackets, but I'm assuming it adds ~$200. Your example did not include drilled rotors (added $) I also would need help fabbing the steering.

I *think* I am comfortable spending an extra ~$600-$900 to 1) get it all from one place 2) Not have to dink around with fabbing the steering/trackbar 3) rest assured that it was designed to work together 4) Support a vendor

I am literally still contemplating it though.

Oh, don't let me turn you away from Dallas's kit. If you don't have the means for quite a few things, his stuff is going to be as good as you're going to get.

As far as the rotors, I'll be buying WJ rotors and redrilling them to 5 on 4.5. Those were included in the cost.

For some, the bracketry isn't really that bad. To be very honest, I'm soooo anal retentive about how things work and design, that I'm more comfortable building my own, to work with my setup than something "off the shelf". If bracketry is something that isn't really going to be something you're up to (or you just don't have the time :laugh then I would recommend his kit, as hard as the price is to swallow.

freerider, do us a favor,

keep close track of what you actually spend on your build. and post up your final price.

take some photos of the process, and try to keep track of the time you spend on it.

it would be nice to see the comparison between a top shelf all inclusive kit and the DIY method from someone who is as good of a fabricator as you (we all followed the buggy build, we know what you're capable of)

I plan on doing exactly that :thumbup:

Once I get going, I'll start recording all the costs, so that people can get an idea of what more of a DIY style would run. It still won't be cheap, and there will be time and labor into brackets for sure.

I'm hoping that I'll be able to get it knocked out this winter, since the buggy only has a couple more runs, if that, before she gets "put up" for the winter and I can focus on getting my other XJ done.

 

[hjeepxj]

For some, the bracketry isn't really that bad. To be very honest, I'm soooo anal retentive about how things work and design, that I'm more comfortable building my own, to work with my setup than something "off the shelf". If bracketry is something that isn't really going to be something you're up to (or you just don't have the time :laugh then I would recommend his kit, as hard as the price is to swallow.

Time has literally been my problem - I parked my original '88 XJ in '06 and never made the time to get it where I wanted/needed to. Now it's a matter of, let's build this new XJ correctly without investing toooooo much time; in a nutshell I'd rather spend my time on trails than building the Jeep, even though I do enjoy working on them.

And my end game with getting people's input and this thread, is to justify in my own head the $1850 for this kit. I know it's a lot of money, I just want to make sure I'm doing the "right" thing for my situation. And if there's a better/easier/cheaper/quicker/more quality suggestion I am alllll ears.

 

[dan1977p]

Time has literally been my problem - I parked my original '88 XJ in '06 and never made the time to get it where I wanted/needed to. Now it's a matter of, let's build this new XJ correctly without investing toooooo much time; in a nutshell I'd rather spend my time on trails than building the Jeep, even though I do enjoy working on them.

And my end game with getting people's input and this thread, is to justify in my own head the $1850 for this kit. I know it's a lot of money, I just want to make sure I'm doing the "right" thing for my situation.

At that price (though I honestly love the kit and wish I could talk myself into NEEDING these upgrades) you really should need it or just have a ton of cash to burn. Stock brakes (this is all assuming setup properly) were adequate for my 33's, upgraded master/booster was great and I did rear discs because of personal preference. Steering is much the same. I don't get into rocks and bash my tie rods, nor do I try to turn when I'm bound up and even though I love to bomb down the fire roads with ruts and holes at 50mph, when it comes to big hits, I take it easy. That puts this type of upgrade in the 'nice to have' column and for that kind of cash, I can take a 7 day cruise. It would totally be worth it if I wheeled hard enough to warrant it. Do you? Only you can answer that question.

 

[hjeepxj]

Do you?

It's a valid question.

I plan to wheel the sh!t out of this XJ, much like I did my last one.

:sunshine:

PS/FWIW I saw you in another thread, my '88 was setup very similar to yours, 33's, 4.5" lift, 4.10 gears, etc. This XJ is going to be (imo), the next step up (35's, ARB's f/r, and 4.88's).

 

[freerider15]

Before mine went full buggy, I was on 35's with a D30/9" Combo (you might remember it as we wheeled at least once together ). I had discs/drums, and thought it wasn't 100% what I wanted stopping wise, I could still nearly lock them up. That, was without having gone to discs in the rear.

But, that all being said, I'm doing the swap up front mainly for the steering, with brakes as a secondary. Mine won't be seeing anything over 32's in the entire foreseeable future.

 

[rockclimber]

once you go from stock brakes to WJ you will realize how inadequate the stock brakes really are.

 

[hjeepxj]

Before mine went full buggy, I was on 35's with a D30/9" Combo (you might remember it as we wheeled at least once together ). I had discs/drums, and thought it wasn't 100% what I wanted stopping wise, I could still nearly lock them up. That, was without having gone to discs in the rear.

But, that all being said, I'm doing the swap up front mainly for the steering, with brakes as a secondary. Mine won't be seeing anything over 32's in the entire foreseeable future.

I do remember that! Man it's been a long time, I'm seriously pumped to get back in to it!

I think I have a picture of you stuck in a river somewhere......:anon:

Everything else on my build is a no-brainer, this steering is just expensive enough for me to be second guessing it.

You going to the November 5th M&G?

 

[hjeepxj]

once you go from stock brakes to WJ you will realize how inadequate the stock brakes really are.

I had stock brakes on my '88 w/33s and they SUCKED.

I'm upgrading for sure!!

 

[StinkyFab]

I went through the list, however I'm now noticing something on Dallas's page. He states:


-7075 Aluminum tie rod with offset tie rod ends
-7075 Aluminum Drag link with new MOOG tie rod ends
-7075 Aluminum track bar with Cromoly heim joints (Johnny joint optional on frame end)

But then lower down states:

-Optional Upgrade to 7075 Aluminum steering links is available

I assumed the $1,850.00 price tag was for 7075 AL? Is 7075 more expensive?

Thank you for catching that. I decided to just make 7075 standard with everything I build after I had written all that. Looks like I missed a change on the web page though, oops.

And yes, the pics show steel links, as that's what went on the prototype vehicle. I don't own that rig, so it's a little hard for me to just snap new pics, but they will get updated eventually.

 

[StinkyFab]

Also note that I do sell a kit that doesn't include the various OEM parts like knuckles, bearings, ball joints, etc. for those that want to save some money. The fact of it is that I really don't make any money on all that stuff, I just buy it all and put it together so that people don't have to source the parts from multiple places. I know you can save a bit doing it yourself with different brands of parts, but a lot of people have expressed a desire to have everything put together for them so they don't have to worry about figuring out exactly which pieces to buy from several different vendors.

 

[freerider15]

Thank you for catching that. I decided to just make 7075 standard with everything I build after I had written all that. Looks like I missed a change on the web page though, oops.

And yes, the pics show steel links, as that's what went on the prototype vehicle. I don't own that rig, so it's a little hard for me to just snap new pics, but they will get updated eventually.

Ah gotcha, makes sense. I was wondering, since that didn't look like the MJ, and maybe more of a prototype or something of the sort.

Also note that I do sell a kit that doesn't include the various OEM parts like knuckles, bearings, ball joints, etc. for those that want to save some money. The fact of it is that I really don't make any money on all that stuff, I just buy it all and put it together so that people don't have to source the parts from multiple places. I know you can save a bit doing it yourself with different brands of parts, but a lot of people have expressed a desire to have everything put together for them so they don't have to worry about figuring out exactly which pieces to buy from several different vendors.

Yep, I fully understand. The other kit is definitely appealing as well, since much of the OEM stuff can be sourced, and instead of it needing shipped twice, it just gets shipped once (ball joints, timken hubs, knuckles, pitman arm), as shipping to me on your full kit is ~$130. $2k for a steering and brake setup, no matter how nice, you and I both know is going to scare away 95% of people right off the bat. It's just the nature of things when it comes to it, especially with a D30.

$2k on a D60? No problem :laugh:

 

[cwyman6]

I had a question about the wj over the knuckle install. How much bumpstop is needed to clear the oil pan? I'm running a custom mid arm suspension. Also I would prefer a cromolly track bar versus aluminum. I feel the flex of the track bar may provoke the wobbles

 

[cal]

you can compress the axle *REALLY* far without that being a problem.

I don't have a solid number for you there, but at full bump my drag link goes *UP* to the knuckle from the pitman arm and never gets near the oil pan.

 

[StinkyFab]

As for the flex, track bar forces are in line with the link, as are steering forces. All the normal loads simply try to compress or stretch the link, not bend it. Only time the links should flex is if you bash them on a rock.

 

[cwyman6]

I understand. Most track bars I deal with have bends to deal with axle housing and cheap ones flex like crazy. I have run into alot of problems with things hitting at full bump with tjs and jks. I have 4.5 in of bump and just want to make sure everything will clear.

 

[hjeepxj]

This is a great conversation/thread.

I think I have decided to do this kit: http://www.stinkyfab.com/jeep-steer...high-steer-big-brake-kit-for-cherokee-xj.html

And piece together the brakes/hubs.

I will keep everyone posted on the status/cost of the steering/braking build.

 

[hot_rod_hooligans]

As I'm going through buying all of my parts to do this sea right now, I thought long and hard about the Stinky Fab kit, a big reason for that was he's using quality manufactures for the parts in the kit, not something you see with the Rusty's kit. Biggest reasons I didn't go with the Stinky Fab kit, 1)I decided to go with the Blaine style track bar mount, and 2) buying my parts allows me to break the purchases up over a few paychecks, and parts trickle in vs having to explain to the wife one big purchase and a big heavy box of stuff that would probably show up one of the days I'm out of town for work, at least this way I have some chance to intercept some of the parts before she can see them lol.

WJ big brakes:
New Crown Automotive WJ steering knuckles $205 (Amazon)
JKS hub spacers $40 (Amazon)
09-01 XJ/99-06 TJ Timken hub bearings $150 (Amazon)
Alloy USA ball joints for JK $175 (Amazon)
WJ Centric Premium rotors $85 (Amazon) +re drilled to 5-4.5" ($?)
Black Magic brake pads $125 (Black Magic Brakes)
New WJ AKEBONO Calipers/brackets $130 (eBay)
Dorman caliper to knuckle bolts $18(Rockauto)
Spicer hub to knuckle bolts $40(eBay)
6 Ruff Stuff 3/4" Heim joints $200 (Ruff Stuff)
3 X 5 ft- 1 1/2" OD x 1/4" wall x 1" ID DOM $150? (local supplier)
1 ft- 1-1/4 OD x .250 wall x .750 ID DOM Track bar bracket $32 (The Metals Depot)

 

[StinkyFab]

That looks really nice! Just an FYI, we also sell a lot of the kit components individually (like the hub spacers) for people like you who would like to do things their own way. I think you'll find that our prices are quite competitive with anyone out there.

BTW, whose axle shafts are those? I don't think I've ever seen the gold finish.