- Location
- Terra Firma
Sick People!
- Thread starter Eagle
- Start date
Jump This
Just another minion!
- Location
- Borrego Springs Ca.
I can handle being called lazy...but FAT? I protest!!! 
- Location
- NC Sandhills
Rest assured that once prosecuted & incarcerated...these wannabe terrorists will get to meet Bubba and Jamal...who miss their SUVs real bad.
Handlebars
NAXJA Member #135
- Location
- Albuquerque, NM
C’mon people, do you really think that the earth’s oil reserves will last forever? What purpose does it serve to have rich, materialistic people driving 6000 pound SUVs 10~15, 000 miles a year on paved roads? I know, it’s the American Way of Life. Unfortunately, the American Way of Life has become rooted in consumerism. We as a nation are living like there is no tomorrow, consuming the largest share of the world’s resources while at the same time having the largest consumer debt and smallest individual savings rate of any industrialized country. Our administration has chosen to invade and occupy foreign lands in the name of “protecting the American Way of Life”. Have you ever really thought about what this means? There are no WMD’s in Iraq- but there is the world’s second largest oil reserve. If we really were out to rid the world of terrrorists, why don’t we start with Saudi Arabia and the UAE? Most of the September 11th attackers came from those countries. Or better yet- why don’t we just cut off the financing that allows them to exist as anything other than a barren land run by religious ideologues that still don’t consider women as equal to men? Most of their money comes in the form of oil revenues from the USA. A true patriot will trade in that H2 with the American flag stickers plastered all over for a Saturn station wagon. This is one place where Joe Citizen can really put his money where his mouth is.
I do not think this attack by the Earth Liberation Front is sick at all. They attacked the symbol of the wastefulness of the American Way of Life. The Hummer H2- a sheep in wolf’s clothing. Designed to look like the rugged military workhorse, while removing most of it’s off-road capabilities to better coddle the fat, lazy ass of the superficial American yuppie. 20 less H2’s to go around? Who cares! They did it in such a way to avoid harm to people. Nobody was inside the dealer at the time so the firefighters didn’t have to put themselves into jeopardy performing rescues. They left their message and calling card prominently posted, avoiding the “who? and why?” questions that follow such attacks. Their attack got lots of news coverage, which has made a least a few people look to their driveways and reconsider the wisdom of driving a needlessly large and inefficient vehicle. Why is this political attack sick anyways? Way more than 20 cars are vandalized, stolen, stripped and destroyed every night in Southern California, out of simple greed. This appalled reaction is nothing more than a denial of the realization that you are a part of the problem. The Covina attack was an elegantly executed act of monkey wrenching, not a sick, random assault that would have otherwise been dismissed as life in the big city.
I do not think this attack by the Earth Liberation Front is sick at all. They attacked the symbol of the wastefulness of the American Way of Life. The Hummer H2- a sheep in wolf’s clothing. Designed to look like the rugged military workhorse, while removing most of it’s off-road capabilities to better coddle the fat, lazy ass of the superficial American yuppie. 20 less H2’s to go around? Who cares! They did it in such a way to avoid harm to people. Nobody was inside the dealer at the time so the firefighters didn’t have to put themselves into jeopardy performing rescues. They left their message and calling card prominently posted, avoiding the “who? and why?” questions that follow such attacks. Their attack got lots of news coverage, which has made a least a few people look to their driveways and reconsider the wisdom of driving a needlessly large and inefficient vehicle. Why is this political attack sick anyways? Way more than 20 cars are vandalized, stolen, stripped and destroyed every night in Southern California, out of simple greed. This appalled reaction is nothing more than a denial of the realization that you are a part of the problem. The Covina attack was an elegantly executed act of monkey wrenching, not a sick, random assault that would have otherwise been dismissed as life in the big city.
Markm80521
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Florida
No offense handle bars but your profile lists you as a "lexus technician" Aren't you a part of the problem by Maintaining these overpriced SUV's? 
5-90
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Hammerspace
Monkey wrenching? Maybe. Elegantly executed? Not at first wash.
Now, who is anyone to tell anyone else what to do - I don't go around bothering Earth Firsters or Greenpeacers, so why can't they leave me alone? Vegetarians? There's a mental aberration at work there, but I don't go bothering them about it.
The principle behind monkey wrenching is to stop companies from doing something - usually aimed at massive construction or mining projects (things like dams, roadways, and the like are primary targets) - not auto dealerships.
Moreover, I still get around 20mpg from my 88XJ, so I don't care to be lumped in with the Suburban and Avalanche crowd that tops out around 12mpg - and solving that is a problem with engineering.
I do not, however, have anything against those who actually use Suburbans &c. as they were intended - the family of seven has a pretty damn decent reason to own one. The yuppie family of three does not need an Expedition at all - and that is a part of the problem. Look at it as an inefficient use of resources - why does someone driving around consistently as a party of two or three neex a seven-pax vehicle?
5-90
Now, who is anyone to tell anyone else what to do - I don't go around bothering Earth Firsters or Greenpeacers, so why can't they leave me alone? Vegetarians? There's a mental aberration at work there, but I don't go bothering them about it.
The principle behind monkey wrenching is to stop companies from doing something - usually aimed at massive construction or mining projects (things like dams, roadways, and the like are primary targets) - not auto dealerships.
Moreover, I still get around 20mpg from my 88XJ, so I don't care to be lumped in with the Suburban and Avalanche crowd that tops out around 12mpg - and solving that is a problem with engineering.
I do not, however, have anything against those who actually use Suburbans &c. as they were intended - the family of seven has a pretty damn decent reason to own one. The yuppie family of three does not need an Expedition at all - and that is a part of the problem. Look at it as an inefficient use of resources - why does someone driving around consistently as a party of two or three neex a seven-pax vehicle?
5-90
Alex,
These guys who did this to a Dealer, ie businessman, they did not do this to the Maufacturer. This attack was done by a bunch of low life people who don't even realize they have harmed the earth more with that fire, which included atleast two H2s, than those care would have ever of done to the earth in their life time.
You call them lazy ass American Yuppie, all I can say is atleast they have a job and are contributing to the work force. How would you like to bet the guys who did this vandalizm don't even have jobs.
And your point of American Consumerizm makes it seem to be the wrong of all wrongs. What's so wrong with it? It is what makes the world economy what it is today.
Now don't forget the biggest thing here is if it wasn't for the American way of Life we would be allowed to sit here and disagree with one another like this. Hussan would of shot one of by now if he had it his way. And if he had it his way you wouldn't be able to even drive that Saturn around.
Now if the ELF wants to make a political statement let them do it politically not with terroistic vandalism to innocent people trying to make a living. Just think that could of been your dealership you work at and now you would be out of work, then house, then food and so on. This was not a good thing no matter what they were trying to say, IT WAS WRONG and they are sick people.
mark
These guys who did this to a Dealer, ie businessman, they did not do this to the Maufacturer. This attack was done by a bunch of low life people who don't even realize they have harmed the earth more with that fire, which included atleast two H2s, than those care would have ever of done to the earth in their life time.
You call them lazy ass American Yuppie, all I can say is atleast they have a job and are contributing to the work force. How would you like to bet the guys who did this vandalizm don't even have jobs.
And your point of American Consumerizm makes it seem to be the wrong of all wrongs. What's so wrong with it? It is what makes the world economy what it is today.
Now don't forget the biggest thing here is if it wasn't for the American way of Life we would be allowed to sit here and disagree with one another like this. Hussan would of shot one of by now if he had it his way. And if he had it his way you wouldn't be able to even drive that Saturn around.
Now if the ELF wants to make a political statement let them do it politically not with terroistic vandalism to innocent people trying to make a living. Just think that could of been your dealership you work at and now you would be out of work, then house, then food and so on. This was not a good thing no matter what they were trying to say, IT WAS WRONG and they are sick people.
mark
Well, Im not going to be as eloquent as these other guys and I dont really want to waste my time explaining to a closed minded idiot. But, Handlebars, after reading your post the only thing that came to my mind was shut the hell up. Everyone has their opinion on the US and thats perfectly fine. But do you honestly think that fighting against the wastefulness of supersized SUV is best practiced by burning them to the ground? You said they attacked the symbol of the wastefulness of the American way of life? Let me ask you this. What good does attacking a symbol do? I see people in other countries burning the American flag and it does not really bother me because the American flag is a symbol. When they start killing Americans thats when I will fight back. All Im saying is, wouldnt it be smarter to fight for what you belive in more constructivly than to go around commiting felonious acts and putting people and property in danger?
Take what I said just as what I said and flame me if you want, but jeez, stop and think about how stupid you sounded after posting that load of crap.
Mike
Take what I said just as what I said and flame me if you want, but jeez, stop and think about how stupid you sounded after posting that load of crap.
Mike
Handlebars
NAXJA Member #135
- Location
- Albuquerque, NM
Let’s look at the most overpriced Lexus SUV- the LX 470. It has standard seating for 8 persons, gets a fuel economy of 13/17 mpg and weighs 5500 lbs. It is also EPA certified as a Low Emission Vehicle.Markm80521 said:No offense handle bars but your profile lists you as a "lexus technician" Aren't you a part of the problem by Maintaining these overpriced SUV's?
Now let’s look at the H2. It seats 5 people standard. It weighs 6500 lbs., and with its GVWR of 8600 lbs. does not even fall under the lax CAFÉ regulations that apply to the Lexus. You won’t find the Hummer’s fuel economy listed in its brochures because of this. Car reviews put the actual mileage at 11 mpg.
The Lexus provides a real people moving capacity while offering top of the industry comfort and reliability. What does the H2 give the owner that a Saturn wagon couldn’t? Oh I know, all terrain capability! How many off-road miles do you think those 20 H2’s would have driven over their expected 100,000-mile lifetimes? Is that really enough to justify burning 9000 gallons of gas that will provide a healthy profit to the big oil companies as well as countries that fund terrorists that have committed acts of war on our soil?
Mark- I’ll start by thanking you for appreciating that the #1 thing that makes America great is the freedom to express opinions that differ from what is considered the norm, unlike other people who consider me to be a closed-minded idiot for not agreeing with them.Mark Hinkley said:
My point is exactly about what American consumerism has done to the world. We are living in a world in which 10% of the population consumes 90% of it’s resources. You, I and the rest of the participants of this forum enjoy a standard of living within the top 2% of the human race. Just because we can afford to own an H2 is no excuse to actually buy one. Especially when those vehicles serve no apparent purpose other than contributing an unusually large amount of profits to countries that fund terrorists who HAVE KILLED Americans on American soil. Do you realize that our administration is using those attacks as justification for repealing some of the freedoms that this country was founded upon? The way I see it, everyone who needlessly drives a gas-guzzler is making the world a little less safer and America a little less free.
Mike, you are so right. 9 out of 10 days my Cherokee stays parked. The rest of the time I ride my 40 mpg motorcycle. But tell me how this makes Chip and Buffy in their H2 aware of how their choice in transportation is effecting the world that we share? I limit my actions to dirty looks at traffic lights, but that only goes so far. The ELF has come up with a stronger message that has only destroyed property. It was not aimed at people and none were harmed. When you lament the loss of objects with a statement like…Backdraft said:
…I realize that you may be a tool of the same administration that is trying to curtail yours and my freedom. I don’t understand why you will defend my right to consume excessive amounts of the world’s resources, while at the same time lambasting me for exercising one of the most basic freedoms that this country was founded upon- the freedom of speech. Shame on you and your misplaced patriotism!
- Location
- REDLANDS, CA. (SoCal)
Handlebars, you get many splinters over there in the left of NaderLand?
:lecture: :bs:
Drive the 4 cyl, NOT the enviro-destroyo 4.0, Yes?
:lecture: :bs:
Drive the 4 cyl, NOT the enviro-destroyo 4.0, Yes?
Last edited:
Georgia Mike
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Flowery Branch,GA
Handlebars said:
Let's average that out,shall we? 13+17/2=15 MPG average vs. the H2's average of 11 MPG. A WHOPPING 4 MPG difference! Now, I'm not an idiot,and I do realize that over the lifetime of the vehicle that will add up to quite a difference,but if I were you,I would have never even brought that one up. I mean,you claim that a Lexus that gets an average of 15 MPG is so much better than the H2? And the fact that the Lexus was EPA certified and all that jazz doesn't disguise the fact that it sucks more gas than an older,simpler XJ! I'm not trying to argue your point on wastefulness,but that Lexus seems pretty wasteful to me,and you even said it was overpriced. Make up your mind
Alex,
I dought there is one single H2 driver selling his H2 right now because of what these ELF guys did. Or even anyone reconcidering them.
It's amazing to me that "waste", ei being able to buy things more than we really need, is seen as such a bad thing. If this concept wasn't in America, wanting more, we might still be like why we started in this country, and half the world is now, fighting over religion. Now talk about a waste of human life and efforts. That is true waste.
So if it is ok to terrorize and burn down H2s then if I come to your house and don't like your color of walls, I then can burn down your house do to my belief it was a waste of paint. Now I realize I'm being rediculious, here just trying to make a point.
The beleive the ELF has is their thing. The way the ELF goes about showing off their thing is what is wrong here and is what gets everyone taking sides. There is not one group or individual that has pervailed from acts as nasty and violent as the ELF does. They are going down the wrong road with these actions, they are going to become an enemy of society rather than doing them anything good. It will be a waste.
Don't forget how much everything we do and enjoy in this country is touched by oil. It would be a pretty boring place or a very violent place like other places in this world where they are not a fortunate as we are in AMERICA.
mark
I dought there is one single H2 driver selling his H2 right now because of what these ELF guys did. Or even anyone reconcidering them.
It's amazing to me that "waste", ei being able to buy things more than we really need, is seen as such a bad thing. If this concept wasn't in America, wanting more, we might still be like why we started in this country, and half the world is now, fighting over religion. Now talk about a waste of human life and efforts. That is true waste.
So if it is ok to terrorize and burn down H2s then if I come to your house and don't like your color of walls, I then can burn down your house do to my belief it was a waste of paint. Now I realize I'm being rediculious, here just trying to make a point.
The beleive the ELF has is their thing. The way the ELF goes about showing off their thing is what is wrong here and is what gets everyone taking sides. There is not one group or individual that has pervailed from acts as nasty and violent as the ELF does. They are going down the wrong road with these actions, they are going to become an enemy of society rather than doing them anything good. It will be a waste.
Don't forget how much everything we do and enjoy in this country is touched by oil. It would be a pretty boring place or a very violent place like other places in this world where they are not a fortunate as we are in AMERICA.
mark
5-90
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Hammerspace
Before anyone continues to bash poor fuel mileage and getting higher efficiency as amethod of saving oil reserves, I just want to toss in one more word - "Petrochemistry." Not everything we get from fossil oil is fuel.
Thank you.
5-90
Thank you.
5-90
I had no clue the Government has brainwashed me and I am now their tool. Maybe we should all just hold hands or hug a tree.Good discussion guys.... interesting points of views presented.
Lets keep the personal insults out of it. Discuss it on the merits of your basis for argument.....
Not taking a side here.... just keep it all level. No jabs, no blows below the belt.
Gentlemen, to your corners...... and come out typing in a civil manner... Ding Ding (bell rings)
Lets keep the personal insults out of it. Discuss it on the merits of your basis for argument.....
Not taking a side here.... just keep it all level. No jabs, no blows below the belt.
Gentlemen, to your corners...... and come out typing in a civil manner... Ding Ding (bell rings)
yellowxj
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Ocala, FL.
Sorry guys but I take this more personnally. The ELF thing and people who defend or support or accept their actions. ELF actors had no way of knowing that their actions would cause no harm to people. Firefighters and policemen responded to the scene(s) of the crime could have been hurt or killed. It happens often enough in accidental fires. If my wife or kids were injured or killed through the actions of a group acting like that I WOULD HUNT THEM DOWN MYSELF AND ATTEMPT TO EXTRACT A VERY PAINFUL AND PUBLIC RETRIBUTION. (of course that might never happen because I would always wonder if I had found the person responsible).
Seems just like a man that was at my car lot (after whats his name the abortion clinic bomber Rudolph was captured) was of the opinion that Rudolph was ok since he was ONLY trying to kill people at abortion clinics. Nevermind that its illegal to be a terrorist and nevermind that in any number of ways people who were not his intended targets could be killed too. I say find the ELF folks and send them to the camp in Cuba so they can be with their kind.
Seems just like a man that was at my car lot (after whats his name the abortion clinic bomber Rudolph was captured) was of the opinion that Rudolph was ok since he was ONLY trying to kill people at abortion clinics. Nevermind that its illegal to be a terrorist and nevermind that in any number of ways people who were not his intended targets could be killed too. I say find the ELF folks and send them to the camp in Cuba so they can be with their kind.
Handlebars
NAXJA Member #135
- Location
- Albuquerque, NM
Mark, thanks again for coming back with lucid arguments, unlike the name calling and unsupported slogans presented by some of the other participants in this debate.Mark Hinkley said:
Let's go back in time to a very important event in American history. December 16, 1773 to be exact. The Boston Tea Party. This was another bloodless act of political vandalism. In this case a symbol, a cargo of tea, was destroyed. It was destroyed to protest the imposition of taxes without earning the taxpayers a voice in the British Parliment. This event lead directly to the revolution that ended in the creation of the United States of America. You and I are here enjoying our freedom of speech thanks to just such an act.
Now since a lot of people are getting all upset and emotional and can not provide any good arguments about why we need to have 20, 000 H2s rolling off the assembly line every year I will tell a joke. What do you call 20 burning Hummer H2's?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
A really good start!
Georgia Mike
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Flowery Branch,GA
What do you call one Lexus SUV burning to the ground
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
an even better start :laugh:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
an even better start :laugh:
- Location
- Aransas Pass, Texas
I am not going to call you a name, but I will state I disagree.
Boston Tea Party and all of that.... we formed a set of laws and a foundation for our country from that (in a round about way). Does not make an excuse for people that have standards that differ from others to go destroy another possessions. What is next? What is after the H2s? Where does it stop? They greens get their way, they rid us of the fuel burners.... they then go after... Our guns? "cause we shoot the cute lil fury animals and eat them?
These people can use the legal system in their battle, or they can work outside it. If they choose to be terrorists, so be it. It is their choice. However, they will lose... they may convince the lost soul or two along the way to join up.... but they WILL fail. Plain and simple. FAIL.
We have enough legislation already, but they can try to add to it. Many people tend to forget.... we used to have HUGE land Yachts roamin the streets. Far worse economy.... burned lots of fuel. Hmmm, when was that? oh....'73 or so we learned a lesson? Hmmmmmm then we learned about economy cars.
Well.... we are getting to the point that gas is extremely expensive, the consumer will speak.... and most will choose economy vehicles. Some will not. That "IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM GIVES ANYBODY ELSE THE RIGHT TO DESTROY ANOTHER AMERICANS PROPERTY"
That is life in America.
Money talks. Is it always right? no. Does it meant act out like a kid throwing a temper tantrum? No..... though they have the right to try.... and face the courts.
Just my (very tired) ramblings.... burned lots of fuel today..... was at a Mercedes Benz event.... running their cars around a course.... burning tires, and fuel.... the legal way. Had fun.... and paid my $2 a gallon for gas to get there and back.... and the additional costs for living where I live.... remote... served by Ferry Boat.... and VERY expensive. Hope they do not decide to come here and burn down my form of transportation next! Unimaginable how much fuel I consumed today. Probably powered an H2 for a year or more.... if they can keep it on the road.
Glenn
Boston Tea Party and all of that.... we formed a set of laws and a foundation for our country from that (in a round about way). Does not make an excuse for people that have standards that differ from others to go destroy another possessions. What is next? What is after the H2s? Where does it stop? They greens get their way, they rid us of the fuel burners.... they then go after... Our guns? "cause we shoot the cute lil fury animals and eat them?
These people can use the legal system in their battle, or they can work outside it. If they choose to be terrorists, so be it. It is their choice. However, they will lose... they may convince the lost soul or two along the way to join up.... but they WILL fail. Plain and simple. FAIL.
We have enough legislation already, but they can try to add to it. Many people tend to forget.... we used to have HUGE land Yachts roamin the streets. Far worse economy.... burned lots of fuel. Hmmm, when was that? oh....'73 or so we learned a lesson? Hmmmmmm then we learned about economy cars.
Well.... we are getting to the point that gas is extremely expensive, the consumer will speak.... and most will choose economy vehicles. Some will not. That "IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM GIVES ANYBODY ELSE THE RIGHT TO DESTROY ANOTHER AMERICANS PROPERTY"
That is life in America.
Money talks. Is it always right? no. Does it meant act out like a kid throwing a temper tantrum? No..... though they have the right to try.... and face the courts.
Just my (very tired) ramblings.... burned lots of fuel today..... was at a Mercedes Benz event.... running their cars around a course.... burning tires, and fuel.... the legal way. Had fun.... and paid my $2 a gallon for gas to get there and back.... and the additional costs for living where I live.... remote... served by Ferry Boat.... and VERY expensive. Hope they do not decide to come here and burn down my form of transportation next! Unimaginable how much fuel I consumed today. Probably powered an H2 for a year or more.... if they can keep it on the road.
Glenn
Handlebars said:Mark, thanks again for coming back with lucid arguments, unlike the name calling and unsupported slogans presented by some of the other participants in this debate.
What do you call 20 burning Hummer H2's?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
A really good start!
