rock krawler long arm

[GirlScout1]

Believe it or not i'm REALLY not trying to make this into a pissing contest. However Mack, you talk about breaking the upper and having your axle flop right? First of all which are you more likely to break: a lower or upper arm? Usually it is a lower arm and even then, aside from slamming it down on a rock it ends up being a torn mount. Well lets say that is WAS the upper arm that broke (we're saying they are all joints that break-not the arms themselves. Fair enough?) chances are it would most likely be at the weakest point. So it breaks the upper joint and..FLOP! its down. Possible? Sure. anything is possible right?

So with that in mind. What if you are running a radius arm kit and you break a joint @ the bellyplate, again not the arm but a joint. basically the same thing is happening and your axle is going to go shooting out. WHy? Because even with a radius arm setup you lose two monting point through the loss of one joint breakage. Mind you I don't think either would happen easy. Chances are you will lose a LCA mount before an upper (especially on the drivers side) or the uppers at the mounting plate attached to the body. I know TnT uses AT LEAST 3/16" plate as well as RK. The weak/stress point is in the factory mounting points into the flimsy sheetmetal.

Again, I think both designs (radius and 3 link) have their pros and cons.

-b

 

[matt6669]

BTW, I believe the revised edition of the TnT kit has access ports to allow the draining of the t-case fluid without dropping the entire x-member.

did not know that, i retract my statement above i will edit my post.
(for some reason i can edit this post but not my other, i tried, but thanks for pointing that out nemo)


Girlscout i never thought of that while comparing a 3-link to a radius arm setup. Everyone complains that there is only one upper but the chances of breaking a upper is slim to none. But with the radius it would be easier to break a lca and if you do then you would have no chance of driving it home at all. Wow never really thought of that. Good point out.

 

[scorpion]

...NEVER..

B-E-A-utiful!! Gotta believe the guy who deals in absolutes. Look Matt, it's clear you believe what you do and I'm cool with that. Everyone has to believe in something. I've never had a problem with saying "well built" or "great idea" when something is. In this case it's the scary interpretation of a 3-link for a unibody which, IMO, could have been done many times better had a little more thought been put into what you call R&D.

Just so we're clear here - if you help "your friend" sell the kits because you believe in them you are actually selling them. If you choose to do so for free then I question your intelligence. Regardless of your IQ, you're facilitating the sale of a product directly or indirectly for a MFG and that's the definition of being a representative. Those are the facts and I don't need to do any more research to post it on the internet.

What if you are running a radius arm kit and you break a joint @ the bellyplate...

This is a good point and a mute one. Both the 3-link and Radius arm setup have the potential of breaking at the unibody on the lower arms and in both cases would leave you stranded. Same rule applies for the LCA at the diff end. Probably the only difference is that heims are more prone to failure than the RE SuperFlex joint (read up on Pirate and other forums). The important difference is that what would happen if you lose an upper...back to what I said before.

GirlScout1, I think you hit the biggest difference between RK and the Y-Link kit directly on the nose. The bellypan. The Y-Link uses a rock solid foundation to attach the arms to. The mounts are kept up high and out of harms way (harm being rocks and other things you may want to drive over). The RK kit, though much cheaper, doesn't give you that advantage and the only way to resolve that is to get a bellypan or some aftermarket skid which will make the kit end up costing more than $400. Because the low-clearance arms get to be below the unibody there's nothing there to protect 90* of the heim from taking a direct shot.

Oh and GirlScount1, stop encoraging Matt6669

 

[xjj33p3r]

If built right the single upper arm is the same exact as a dual upper just that you don't get the binding and all the other problems associated with a radius arm setup. If your using strong enough components for the upper arm there is no reason that you should be left broken down. All i do is carry an extra joint just incase.

Just something to note, solid stock isn't as strong as tubing. So strength wise, I would say TNT has the upperhand over Rock Krawler. I like both kits, but I just thought that I would let yall know.

 

[Capt. Nemo]

Just something to note, solid stock isn't as strong as tubing.

Where'd you get that info from?





















I would probably agree with you, but would like some references.

 

[xjj33p3r]

Where'd you get that info from?

I would probably agree with you, but would like some references.

A friend of mine who works in fabrication let me know when I told him I was interested in the RK kit.

 

[scoobyxj]

Just something to note, solid stock isn't as strong as tubing.

I read the same thing in one of the off road magizines I get. (don't remember witch one, and it was a while ago)

 

[BrettM]

Just something to note, solid stock isn't as strong as tubing.

absolutely WRONG

this myth has been prevalent enough that BillaVista references it in his Steel and Materials Strength Bible

Section 9 - Dispelling myths / FAQ

...

Q: Which is stronger in torsion - a hollow or solid shaft of the same size (OD)?

A: Solid. However, depending how much material is removed from the middle of the hollow shaft (i.e. how thick the walls remain) often the hollow shaft saves significant weight while sacrificing VERY LITTLE strength. However, the solid shaft WILL ALWAYS ultimately be stronger, just sometimes not by very much.

The following offer proof:

Table giving Comparative Torsional Strengths and weights of Hollow and Solid Shafting with Same Outside Diameter.[12]


and

Eric Ruhl's proof, posted on the Pirate4x4.com Bulletin Board.

The same is true of bending loads, with the only exception being when supporting it's own weight becomes an issue, which simply isn't an issue in the 4x4 world.

 

[CRASH]

absolutely WRONG

this myth has been prevalent enough that BillaVista references it in his Steel and Materials Strength Bible



The same is true of bending loads, with the only exception being when supporting it's own weight becomes an issue, which simply isn't an issue in the 4x4 world.

Bravo, thanks for posting this to help put this silly rumor to rest!

 

[ZachMan]

I like the TNT kit....seems way more safe than a 3 link, that is all.

 

[RWKHausSupply]

well I will so left and say that Full Traction is basically the RK improved. yeah its 4 link but its basically a Jeep designed stock 4 link but in the long arm variety.

 

[Eagle]

Bravo, thanks for posting this to help put this silly rumor to rest!

It won't put it to rest, though.

We should start up a pool on how long we have to wait before someone else posts it as "fact."

 

[mikecooper]

I have purchased the TnT kit, sorry Matt havent installed it yet to give you a writeup, too damn busy. I like the Rk and Tnt kit, but I chose the TnT not only for my vehicle's specifications but for my own. What I build, buy, install on my vehicle is ultimately my responsibility and when I have others trail riding with me I want the assurance of knowing I have what has proven and what I feel are the safest components on my vehicle. Now if "whoever" feels hat the RK kit is safe and proven by all means, buy, install and run the kit but I, chose TnT for my safety and my passengers' not to mention the wheelers in front of or behind me, which is another reason to ditched my d35 years ago.

Chris Cooper

 

[xjcrawlr]

I'd really like to see some pics of the RK kit in action. Not just flex shots, but real trail runs where the kit is being put through its paces.

REALLY! You asked......


The following are of Joe's 91 with the Super 8 kit..

And some of Marks '00, with the 6.5" kit with leaves....

And heres my '94 with the same kit....

As for this;

Because the low-clearance arms get to be below the unibody there's nothing there to protect 90* of the heim from taking a direct shot.

Explain to me how that is possible?

 

[matt6669]

B-E-A-utiful!! Gotta believe the guy who deals in absolutes. Look Matt, it's clear you believe what you do and I'm cool with that. Everyone has to believe in something. I've never had a problem with saying "well built" or "great idea" when something is. In this case it's the scary interpretation of a 3-link for a unibody which, IMO, could have been done many times better had a little more thought been put into what you call R&D.

Just so we're clear here - if you help "your friend" sell the kits because you believe in them you are actually selling them. If you choose to do so for free then I question your intelligence. Regardless of your IQ, you're facilitating the sale of a product directly or indirectly for a MFG and that's the definition of being a representative. Those are the facts and I don't need to do any more research to post it on the internet.

I can say never for this reason and this reason only. You will never (that is unless like the world freeze's over or something) see tnt selling their kits for the price that rock krawler does just for the fact that dom tubing is more expensive than solid stock. Now that i have said that, i would rather buy a product that costs less, is stronger than tubing, and add a few pounds to my truck instead. But thats who i am. I can't justify buying a 900 dollar part that i can buy a 400 dollar part and a 150 dollar part that does the exact same thing but in my mind better.

Now questioning my intelligence. hmmmm now that could get touchy. I do so for free for a few reasons. One because at age 20 i have a job that a lot of people would dream of having and i make a very significant amount of money that i wouldn't want to add another job to my list. If i were to get paid for selling the kits then with the way i work i would put my 110% into selling kits. I don't want to do that, becuase i work long enough hours as it is. So questioning my intelligence is just retarded when once again YOU DON'T KNOW THE WHOLE STORY. So im not even going to touch this topic about you thinking that i drum up a product b/c im selling it. Becuase its not true and i've proven its not true. I tell it how it is, becuase I USE THE PRODUCT.


Also on that whole theory that people think that hollow tubing is stronger than solid stock. Even if hollow tubing was stronger all it takes is for you to land on one pointed rock the right way and "dent the tubing and that piece of tubing is shot. Though you might not see it, there can be dents in the tubing that will start to decrease the strength of that tubing. Once theres a dent, it will never be as strong as it was in the beginning. This is why once again i believe that the rk kit is stronger b/c it uses solid stock. No chances of denting it. I doubt you will ever bend it by resting your truck on a rock. I've seen people do it and i've done it myself and have never saw an arm bend. And even if you do, call up rk and they'll replace it free of charge no questions asked.



xjcrawlr nice pictures btw. That coil over kit is in my future sometime. Hopefully sooner than i think i would love to get that on my truck and finish out my suspension. Loving those pictures though, esp. the one 00 black jeep in the water hole, such a nice shot. glad to see some rk supporters.

Matt

 

[xjj33p3r]

absolutely WRONG

this myth has been prevalent enough that BillaVista references it in his Steel and Materials Strength Bible



The same is true of bending loads, with the only exception being when supporting it's own weight becomes an issue, which simply isn't an issue in the 4x4 world.

Thanks Brett.

 

[Roads]

Just read the entire thread. What a waste of preacious, non-refundable time. However, well said Scorpion, Matt wrote me a pm a while back ago after I posted a thread about the RE6130 kit. He was trying to sell me an RK kit.

 

[RWKHausSupply]

well even though I would like the Full traction kit I wrote Matt in hopes of getting one of his 400$ RK kits and have not heard back from him. I was mearly going to fab a additional upper arm and make it a 4link. But since I cant buy what comes in the RK kit separately for 400$ and make it my self I figured that buying the kit was a better start...

I hope matt can still get a RK kit for his 400$ pricing.. I guess I will see..

 

[mack]

Hmmmm....

Just read the entire thread. What a waste of preacious, non-refundable time. However, well said Scorpion, Matt wrote me a pm a while back ago after I posted a thread about the RE6130 kit. He was trying to sell me an RK kit.

 

[Badcop]

Search = http://www.naxja.org/forum/search.php?searchid=750749

well even though I would like the Full traction kit I wrote Matt in hopes of getting one of his 400$ RK kits and have not heard back from him. I was mearly going to fab a additional upper arm and make it a 4link. But since I cant buy what comes in the RK kit separately for 400$ and make it my self I figured that buying the kit was a better start...

I hope matt can still get a RK kit for his 400$ pricing.. I guess I will see..

Contact Scott Creasey at www.creaseyoffroad.com or at 801-266-2999 Tell him Brian sent you. He can order anything from RK that they make at better than cost to most other sellers, hes a part owner in the company and a close friend.