Rear tire wobble

[spinaldex]

Had some work done on my rig by a shop this past week. New shackle setup by Iron Man, lifted it about 2" more than previously (roughly 6.5" now), IRO OTK steering, new shocks, then had an alignment done by Les Schwab this morning. Was driving it home and my wife followed. She said the rear left tire was wobbling left to right. Pulled over, and swapped drivers so I could follow and see, and she was dead on. The right one seemed to do it a bit too, but the left rear was very noticable. Never had this problem before. 35" BFGs on black steels, rear is a Super 35. No wheeling lately, and I'm positive it wasn't this way before. I watched the rear pinion while she drove to see if maybe the entire axle was moving left to right, and it didn't look like it. I went to tighten down the lugs and then were all really solid.
WTH could be causing this? I mean, I hear of bent shafts, but there's no way it would have bent over the course of 3 days with no wheeling and just a guy installing a few parts? Plus, Super35 axles are pretty strong themselves, so just street driving shouldn't cause something like that. Bad tires? Ugh .. looking for advice so I know what to do next to the money pit!

Thanks

 

[8Mud]

I've had good luck using a piece of welding rod or coat hanger wire wrapped (or duct taped) around something small and heavy (brick, chunk of steel), then bending it until it just touches whatever I want to check for "out of round" (runout). It actually works well if you are careful, primitive but functional. I've even taped a fine tip marker to the end so I could see where the line stops and starts. You can use a set of feeler gauges to measure runout. It doesn't have to be pretty, it just has to work.

 

[93gc40]

Just be cause nobody pointed out the issue before. doesn't mean it wasn't there Before your wife noticed. You the driver of the rig still may not know about the issue without being told to look. Could just be a frozen U-joint or bent wheel or bad tire. 35" tires are heavy enough to bend or twist an axle just by themselves, not likely just technically possible. Could be from something the one of the shops did wrong shops did wrong. Maybe one of the shackle is frozen up. Maybe the alignment shop set the alignment for a STOCK XJ rather than one sitting almost 10" higher than stock. (6 1/2" lift + 35" tires)

 

[redneck]

Tire not seated properly on the rim?

 

[Talyn]

try switch the wheels side to side and see if the wobble follows the wheel. If it does its the rim. If it doesn't its the shaft.

 

[spinaldex]

Ok, so can't work on it today but from what I gather I should jack it up and wiggle the wheels to see if there is wobble (wheel bearing), swap wheels to see if it's a bent rim or inner tire issue, and check all the bills one more time.
And good point on that this could be a bent axle that I can't see while driving. Hope not. The cost of replacing a Super 35 shaft would pay for an 8.8 or D44 drop in.

 

[WB9YZU]

A rear wheel bearing will howl way before any play shows up.

Put the rear on jack stands,& block the front. Put a driver in it, and put it in 1st gear. They can regulate the speed with the brakes. Let the tires rotate and look for whether the run out is at the rim, or the tire. If the run out is at the wheel, remove the wheel and check for runout at the flange.

Be careful, rotating stuff can be very dangerous.

-Ron

 

[sidriptide]

A rear wheel bearing will howl way before any play shows up.

Put the rear on jack stands,& block the front. Put a driver in it, and put it in 1st gear. They can regulate the speed with the brakes. Let the tires rotate and look for whether the run out is at the rim, or the tire. If the run out is at the wheel, remove the wheel and check for runout at the flange.

Be careful, rotating stuff can be very dangerous.

-Ron

checking run-out for a bent wheel is better (and safer) without power input from the engine. as 8Mud suggested, use a piece of wire to check it by turning it by hand.
first thing i would do is check the one wheel before doing anything else, then remove the wheel and put it right back on and check it again. it may just be that it isnt mounted flush for some reason.
since you just had work done, it is more likely a wheel or tire issue than an axle problem. but depending how bad it is you may not have noticed it before and it has been there a while. i have no experience with the Super35 but i'd say you will tweak your housing before you tweak a shaft.

 

[spinaldex]

I had two back to back jobs done on it in the past week. I first had a few suspension/brake changes done (new bushings, taller coils, new shocks, new rear shackles and mounts, new drums). Then I drove it home while my wife followed and she didn't notice anything wrong (I specifically asked her to look for problems on the way home).

Then we took it to Les Schwab to have an alignment done. We left there and she immediately noticed the tire wobble on the rear left side.

Tonight when I get home I'm going to pull it off and reseat it. Then I'm going to check the tire pressure all the way around. If that doesn't fix it I'll swap it to the right side and see if it moves with it or stays. If it stays, I'll see if the drum is seated right. If that doesn't fix it then it's probably either loose suspension (loosed up during the drive to my house), or axle/flange. If it moves then its likely a bent rim/bad tire. I'm REALLY hoping its something simple like a bad tire or wheel. I don't have the time to swap an shaft right now (which is why I've had someone else helping me in the first place lately).

 

[ParadiseXJ]

I'd take it back to Les Schwab and ask them WTF they did.

 

[kastein]

Put the rear on jackstands, chock the front wheels, and carefully put it in first gear. Watch the tires spin.

Also, if it's a bent axleshaft or something... man, why the hell did you spend that much money on a d35? Shoulda started out with an 8.25, you would only be into it about another 100 bucks, getting the upgrades done would have probably been cheaper since the axle would be out of the jeep for them, less downtime, AND it's a stronger axle. If something's badly toast with your axle, you should probably pick an 8.25, 8.8, or 44 up to build to replace it. Else, you are throwing good money after bad.

 

[spinaldex]

man, why the hell did you spend that much money on a d35?

I didn't. I picked up the rig a few years ago. The guy had a RE 4.5" and the Super 35 already done. I haven't put any money in to the rear-end, just the suspension for exactly the reason you state .. it's a D35. If the axle's bent, I'll have a tough call. The shaft is $150 shipped, so either I do a quick fix, or I dump $1500 in to a D44 (selectable locker, gears, new seals, bearings, donor axle, etc).

 

[kastein]

Oh, that sucks, my apologies for jumping to conclusions. Here's hoping it is a wheel or something.

 

[spinaldex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJxfM-7Vv8k

So tonight here's what we did:

- Jacked it up.
- Wobbled the tire like you see here.
- Swapped the tire for my spare (issue was the same)
- Swapped the drum (issue was the same)
- wiggled the axle (it wiggles a lot)
- Other side is perfect, no wiggling.

My buddy who's a mechanic took a quick look and think its the bearing because it moves up and down when you pull from the bottom. He says he'll help me pull the shaft out this week and change the bearing and seal.

What do you think?

 

[unhitched]

If it where mine i would just go pull another axle with the same ratio from the pick a part and replace the dana 35 with either an 8.25 or a dana 44, and get some zj disc brakes while you are at it, and just swap the axle. no sense putting another dime into the dana 35

 

[spinaldex]

$15 for a bearing and a seal.

$300 axle
$180 4.56 gears
$1000 selectable locker
= $1480.

Even if I decided to go with a lunchbox locker to save cash, we're still at close to $1000. Compared to a $15 quick fix ... why not go this route?

Sure, I want to go with a better axle, but a stock Cherokee Dana 44 (which is the only truly bolt-on solution, any other D44 requires fabrication which means more money) is barely an upgrade over a Super 35. The only tangible benefit is the strength of the housing. So, if I want a truly better axle were not talking about a simple axle swap .. we're talking about a built Dana 44 ... trussed, yukon axles, detroit carrier and locker, etc. That's $2k, and a $2k I just can't justify right now over a $15 bearing and seal (if thats what it is).

Now, if I swap the bearing and seal and there's more wrong with it, yep ... you're probably right, its time to start an axle build.

 

[kastein]

If it where mine i would just go pull another axle with the same ratio from the pick a part and replace the dana 35 with either an 8.25 or a dana 44, and get some zj disc brakes while you are at it, and just swap the axle. no sense putting another dime into the dana 35

Good luck finding a 4.56 geared axle in the junkyard.

$15 for a bearing and a seal.

$300 axle
$180 4.56 gears
$1000 selectable locker
= $1480.

Even if I decided to go with a lunchbox locker to save cash, we're still at close to $1000. Compared to a $15 quick fix ... why not go this route?

Sure, I want to go with a better axle, but a stock Cherokee Dana 44 (which is the only truly bolt-on solution, any other D44 requires fabrication which means more money) is barely an upgrade over a Super 35. The only tangible benefit is the strength of the housing. So, if I want a truly better axle were not talking about a simple axle swap .. we're talking about a built Dana 44 ... trussed, yukon axles, detroit carrier and locker, etc. That's $2k, and a $2k I just can't justify right now over a $15 bearing and seal (if thats what it is).

Now, if I swap the bearing and seal and there's more wrong with it, yep ... you're probably right, its time to start an axle build.

I disagree completely with it not being an upgrade over the super 35 (your ring and pinion is still super weak, sorry) but otherwise, I agree.

It isn't the bearing, I guarantee you that, the shaft rides on the bearing but it isn't going to make the wheel wobble. It's either the shaft or the wheel/tire, unfortunately. Or the wheel not being seated on the flange properly for some reason - could be a bent brake drum (maybe they dropped it off the jack or something?) or a bent wheel flange. I know you already tried a different wheel/tire, though.

I know you tried swapping your spare on, have you tried swapping the two rear tires and seeing if it moves to the other side or not? Just spitballing here, because the only part that can really cause this other than the wheel/tire is the axleshaft.

 

[spinaldex]

Left side: I tried a total of 3 tires. The original, the other side, and a spare tire I keep on the roof rack.

It does not happen on the right side at all, even with the break drum, tire from the left side.

I tried on a new brake drum I had in a box.

It is 100% not the drum or wheel/tire.

The axle physically wiggles up/down/left/right/in/out when you remove the breakdrum, grab the studs and start moving it. The in & out isn't huge, but probably 1/8" (which I'm told is normal since its a C-clip).

As you can see from the picture, its most noticable when you grab it from the bottom and twist.

If the bearing races have disintegrated in certain areas, it could allow the axle to start to move around. These bearings don't have an inner race, they only have an outside race and the inside touched the "rollers" directly: http://amzn.to/1nPuIqP

So, technically, it seems possible it could move around quite a bit couldn't it?

 

[unhitched]

Sorry, I didnt realize you had 4.56, read the first part a couple of days ago. My dana 35 in my wrangler was a piece of junk, I spent more time and money than care to admit fixing it. Had i known a cherokee 8.25 would have fit I would/could/should have just swapped it out and been money ahead. that being said if you are happy with the d35 keep it.

PS your bearing probably when out because your tubes are bent

 

[spinaldex]

Sorry, I didnt realize you had 4.56, read the first part a couple of days ago. My dana 35 in my wrangler was a piece of junk, I spent more time and money than care to admit fixing it. Had i known a cherokee 8.25 would have fit I would/could/should have just swapped it out and been money ahead. that being said if you are happy with the d35 keep it.

My plan is to get rid of it in another year (tax return). But, in the meantime, we don't do any big wheeling in this thing, its for mild fun and making it through the snow when it gets thick. For that reason, I need it up and running for as little as possible so I can do the axle swap the right way.

To get this thing back on the road, it could be a $120 axle shaft, a $15 bearing and seal, or .. what else? Because even if it costs me $300 now, I can't build an axle for that, and I don't mind putting that in to here to buy me another year.