AwesomeXJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Vancouver WA.
That's all you got from that post? Pathetic.
Rainwater. Illegal to collect
- Thread starter NW-ZJ-SCOTT
- Start date
dsdtdemon
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Pleasant Hill, CA
?!?
Unless I missed something, your post (paraphrased):
You shouldn't have to pay to collect rainwater. You pay other taxes related to it, which is not based on use (rain or shine, and whether or not you even a have a gutter), and its ridiculous that you would have to pay to collect it.
And the state of Oregon, apparently, agrees. Hence, you don't have to pay for it, and you don't even need a permit.
So in summary, you are correct. Everyone in Oregon (and Washington too, in fact) CAN collect the rainwater on their rooftops. Legally too!
In Utah, all you need to do is register that you're doing it. There is no fee.
Unless I missed something, your post (paraphrased):
You shouldn't have to pay to collect rainwater. You pay other taxes related to it, which is not based on use (rain or shine, and whether or not you even a have a gutter), and its ridiculous that you would have to pay to collect it.
And the state of Oregon, apparently, agrees. Hence, you don't have to pay for it, and you don't even need a permit.
So in summary, you are correct. Everyone in Oregon (and Washington too, in fact) CAN collect the rainwater on their rooftops. Legally too!
In Utah, all you need to do is register that you're doing it. There is no fee.
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dsdtdemon
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Pleasant Hill, CA
the writer of this article really needs some perspective. the amount of freedom we DO have in this country is so far beyond what any other human being in this world experiences...
NorCalChris
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Central Coast, Ca
Do you know? I might be wrong, but I don't think you fully understand every crop and their water demands.
I have a better idea. Let's see you post some numbers. I hope you're a farmer...
- Location
- San Diego
please prove me wrong.
dsdtdemon
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Pleasant Hill, CA
((I'm in complete agreement with you. That statement punctuates the writer's lack of perspective.))
- Location
- San Diego
ahhhh... my bad. :cheers:
Milford Cubicle II
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Out there.
It's not too difficult. Let's say a stream is on average, 6 feet wide and 2 feet deep, and flows at 1.5 feet per second. 6*2*1.5 = 18ft^3/sec. There are 134.649 gallons in 18 cubic feet. There are 325,851.429 gallons in an acre-foot. 325,851.429 gallons/134.649 gallons per second = 2,420 seconds = 40 minutes
As far as water requirements for produce, I don't know. I do know however, that I irrigate from a small (two acre in area) lagoon and it's enough to sustain 15 acres of Bermuda. But seeing as how such a relatively small stream can put an entire acre under a foot of water in 40 minutes, I find it hard to believe that even the thirstiest of crops use but a tiny percentage of the water out of a river.
tbburg
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Scottsdale AZ
Don't have current numbers, but something like 4/5th of the water pumped into central Arizona out of the ground or overland from the Colorado river is used for agricultural purposes. Amongst other crops, we grow cotton here! I think it's the 3rd or 4th most water intensive crop grown. We use flood irrigation techniques(In the open desert) We also ship most of our fresh water in open canals.(Also in the open desert)
Camel013
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- raleigh nc
Millford, Your (Q) discharge rate was more confusing than beneficial to us, so I'd like to interject some different information. Ground water is the reason they limit collection of rainwater for through infiltration is where groundwater comes from, and groundwater flows just like a river from upstream to downstream. An example of how an upstream divert ect... of water will bankrupt a downstream farmer is: Kansas on the Platt Riiver where farming has reduced the amount of water available to the western panhandle of Texas which has declined to the point of the supply lasting only a decade or so (Keller). Another example is by Edward A. Keller whereas, "south of Ulysses, ,Lower Cimerron Springs, which was a famous watering hole along the Santa Fe Trail, which dried up decades ago due to pumping of groundwater" is an example of how conservative efforts are made to ensure there is enough water for all. This is not a big or small government question where it is more of a land ethics issue of can those pumping water for crops sentence those downstream to death?
If you want numbers some rough ones are: groundwater pumping for irrigation needs north of Lubbock TX have caused over a 50ft decline in groundwater levels since 1940 in Lubbock TX.
Source:
Edward A Keller. Intro to Environmental Geology. USA. Pearson Prentice Hall. 2008. Book
If you want numbers some rough ones are: groundwater pumping for irrigation needs north of Lubbock TX have caused over a 50ft decline in groundwater levels since 1940 in Lubbock TX.
Source:
Edward A Keller. Intro to Environmental Geology. USA. Pearson Prentice Hall. 2008. Book
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5-90
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Hammerspace
I don't think you should be able to dam a stream or river that runs on your property - however, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to collect rainwater that falls on it.
I seriously doubt you'd be able to collect all of the rainwater that falls on your property, but I don't see any reason why, say, you couldn't route your roof gutters into a basement cistern for purification and use.
And the problem with fresh water is the same as we have with housing - we don't need more of those resources, we need fewer people! This rock is already overpopulated, and it's getting worse.
- Location
- San Diego
I completely agree.... so there!
- Location
- NE Texas
Well said.
- Location
- NE Texas
Darky
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- 29 Palms, CA
Ding ding ding!
Not to mention a lot of the farmers in the west don't have a stream on their property, they rely on subsidized water diverted to them possibly from hundreds of miles away. Milford, your small crop doesn't take much out of the stream, but hundreds of thousands of acres being irrigated by the same river make a big dent. The Colorado barely reaches its delta in the Gulf of California anymore because it's so heavily utilized.
Milford Cubicle II
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Out there.
You can't assume that a farm is a farm. There are wild variances from one farm to another. I run 100-150 head of cattle, and raise 3500 pigs at least 3 times a year. Yes, the swine drink a lot, but all of that ends up in the lagoon, which is then used to grow what the cows eat. I use no fertilizer whatsoever, other than what comes out of the lagoon. Obviously, a very efficient set up, but it's also very common. So you can't assume that "farms" use a huge amount of water. My entire operation runs off of a small pump from a well.
5-90
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Hammerspace
For those of us who don't like to bother with streaming media and/or prefer to read, can we get text links as well?
Darky
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- 29 Palms, CA
On the same note, you can't assume that everyone has the same setup as you. As was pointed out, AZ farmland uses a lot of water drawn off of the CO river, piped across much of central/southern AZ in canals to irrigate their land. Much of SoCal (San Fernando and etc) uses water drawn from near the OR border and from the Owens River 400 miles away, much of which comes via canals.
Even more fun, when we made the CO River Compact back in the 1920's, we divvied up all the water amongst the 7 states in the CO River basin. The numbers used were estimates based on artificially high flows from the few years before. But then we remembered that we had the reservations that needed water so we had to add on some flow to give them water. Then Mexico reminded us that they used that water as well, so we had to add them on.
Then, Mexico started using the water we gave them, and it killed their crops. By the time it had been filtered through the ground over and over to irrigate crops, it picked up extremely high levels of salinity from the soil. Mexico had to sue us in world court to get us to provide usable water. What does this have to do with anything? Simply that there's a lot to consider when it comes to water usage and rights in the American west where we don't get rain.
Is there anyone downstream of you?
AwesomeXJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Vancouver WA.
I think they are missing the point Scott.
tbburg
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Scottsdale AZ
You left out the BEST part!
The desalination plant on the US/Mexico border where we treat the water, then dump it back in the river.
