pocketing frame for long arms...any thoughts?

TrailHunter said:
So you're saying it's the ramp that stopped him here. What if he had the link mount pocketed? He'd be stuck on his control arm instead. I can totally understand what 88rock is saying and I think he's correct when talking about the amount of performance gained for the amount off effort to build it. Is the pocket better? Maybe a little and what 88rock is trying to say is, you can get near the same performance (if not the same) with much less effort.



holy crap , somone pinch me lol

thats exactley what i mean, im sure it helps but imo not enough to do it and if i was worried about it i would mount my arms like the tnt kit and bend them like the rears on this xj http://www.xjusa.com/badassxj/images/XJ67.jpg
 
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88rockxj said:
holy crap , somone pinch me lol

thats exactley what i mean, im sure it helps but imo not enough to do it and if i was worried about it i would mount my arms like the tnt kit and bend them like the rears on this xj http://www.xjusa.com/badassxj/images/XJ67.jpg

I know what your saying but your not total right. With the bracket to keep foward movement you will have to lift the entire vehicle weight, whearas with the pockets you will just have to compress or lift the control are and since it's attached to the suspension that will compress so there you don't have to lift as much to keep foward momentum.
 
Weasel said:
I know what your saying but your not total right. With the bracket to keep foward movement you will have to lift the entire vehicle weight, whearas with the pockets you will just have to compress or lift the control are and since it's attached to the suspension that will compress so there you don't have to lift as much to keep foward momentum.


no im not completely right, i just dont think the gains are worth the amount of work and as i said i would mount it like the tnt kit if i was going to go through the trouble of pocketing them and completely solve the clearance issues.
 
88rockxj said:
no im not completely right, i just dont think the gains are worth the amount of work and as i said i would mount it like the tnt kit if i was going to go through the trouble of pocketing them and completely solve the clearance issues.

You seem to really like the TNT kit, but it has problems of it's own, namely, it's a radius arm design, which unloads on steep climbs. I built a radius arm design 7 years ago, scrapped it for a three link on the new rig. Just FYI.

CRASH

P.S. I see now that we need to get you out on some REAL trails so you can see just how badly you can get hung when the rocks get deep.

P.S.S. What a coincidence, I also live in a town with no stoplights. Welcome to the redneck club.
 
JeepFreak21 said:

rim.jpg
 
88rockxj said:
just sounds like you have a lot less fun then i do, my vehicles and my money so ill beat on them as hard as i want to.



i also have twice the knowledge i would of if i hadnt broken and fixed so many things so many times, i can drop a rear axle by myself with no power tools using bottle jacks in under 45 minutes flat in the gravel. i could install a d30 on an xj with my eyes closed. id really appreciate it if you quit commenting on me in a personal level.

Sorry I've hit your non-funny bone. I've been stuck in the house on couch rest all week and I'm going a little stir crazy. I'll elaborate.

1. Every little bit counts when playing in big rocks. I have been hung up to many times to count where another 1/4 or 1/2 inch would have gotten me over. Sure a ramp might help but imagine that mount not being there, it would have even hit. Also notice that a few of the pictures I posted don't show them hanging on the mounts, but on the arms themselves. Sucking the mounts up high just help but not having as much to hang on.

2. Anyone can break parts. My whole point of working on my junk before hand is so I don't. When I go out on trails I want to drive and don't want to sit around fixing or waiting for someone to fix their junk. It is really annoying when your trying to bust through trails and a throttle jockey that is under built for their style is breaking every 20'. I'm pretty forgiving with new people, but ones that continue to be that way find themselves not invited anymore. Almost everyone has been under built at one point or another, but driving accordingly is the key.

3. That's great you so quick at changing axles. How many spare housings to you carry on the trail?

4. Think about what you could have built if you didn't go through 10 vehicles. I understand your point of fun, but I would much rather be able to go out next weekend and play some more than thrash my rig to a pulp and this weekend and not.

It's a combination of 2, 3, and 4 that brought on my "not to bright" comment. I have known people like you are describing and still do, but they don't get to run trails with me anymore. I got tired of missing out of trails because their junk was broke half way through. I hope that when you decide to take Crash up on his offer I'm not there.

Also many of these guys that have been trying to explain why the mounts hanging down are not good have a lot of experience driving difficult trails. Not point the nose and hammer the throttle hard, but technical every little bit helps trails. Every trip is a learning experience on how to make or do something better. Hint, the advanced fab.

Enjoy arguing a point that has been proven inferior so many times.
 
Lincoln said:
Sorry I've hit your non-funny bone. I've been stuck in the house on couch rest all week and I'm going a little stir crazy. I'll elaborate.

1. Every little bit counts when playing in big rocks. I have been hung up to many times to count where another 1/4 or 1/2 inch would have gotten me over. Sure a ramp might help but imagine that mount not being there, it would have even hit. Also notice that a few of the pictures I posted don't show them hanging on the mounts, but on the arms themselves. Sucking the mounts up high just help but not having as much to hang on.

2. Anyone can break parts. My whole point of working on my junk before hand is so I don't. When I go out on trails I want to drive and don't want to sit around fixing or waiting for someone to fix their junk. It is really annoying when your trying to bust through trails and a throttle jockey that is under built for their style is breaking every 20'. I'm pretty forgiving with new people, but ones that continue to be that way find themselves not invited anymore. Almost everyone has been under built at one point or another, but driving accordingly is the key.

3. That's great you so quick at changing axles. How many spare housings to you carry on the trail?

4. Think about what you could have built if you didn't go through 10 vehicles. I understand your point of fun, but I would much rather be able to go out next weekend and play some more than thrash my rig to a pulp and this weekend and not.

It's a combination of 2, 3, and 4 that brought on my "not to bright" comment. I have known people like you are describing and still do, but they don't get to run trails with me anymore. I got tired of missing out of trails because their junk was broke half way through. I hope that when you decide to take Crash up on his offer I'm not there.

Also many of these guys that have been trying to explain why the mounts hanging down are not good have a lot of experience driving difficult trails. Not point the nose and hammer the throttle hard, but technical every little bit helps trails. Every trip is a learning experience on how to make or do something better. Hint, the advanced fab.

Enjoy arguing a point that has been proven inferior so many times.

Driving it like you stole it leads to many broke parts and less fun for everyone you ar with. I have driven some of the hardest trails in the country, was in MOAB with Lincoln e few years ago...Johnson valley a few times and trails in AZ and NM most rated 4.0 or above.

X20

Like Lincoln said most of us actually like taking the rig through tough trails without trashing crap...and drivers like you who dont wish to learn usually are left behind we are tired of dealing with the broken junk on the trail. Many of the trail throttle will only get you into trouble, will get you stuck and broke never over. The line to get through might only be several inches one way or the other between making the obstacle or taking a winch.....the pic of you flexed out that trail would rate about a 2.5 on the 5.0 scale
 
Lincoln said:
Sorry I've hit your non-funny bone. I've been stuck in the house on couch rest all week and I'm going a little stir crazy. I'll elaborate.

1. Every little bit counts when playing in big rocks. I have been hung up to many times to count where another 1/4 or 1/2 inch would have gotten me over. Sure a ramp might help but imagine that mount not being there, it would have even hit. Also notice that a few of the pictures I posted don't show them hanging on the mounts, but on the arms themselves. Sucking the mounts up high just help but not having as much to hang on.

2. Anyone can break parts. My whole point of working on my junk before hand is so I don't. When I go out on trails I want to drive and don't want to sit around fixing or waiting for someone to fix their junk. It is really annoying when your trying to bust through trails and a throttle jockey that is under built for their style is breaking every 20'. I'm pretty forgiving with new people, but ones that continue to be that way find themselves not invited anymore. Almost everyone has been under built at one point or another, but driving accordingly is the key.

3. That's great you so quick at changing axles. How many spare housings to you carry on the trail?

4. Think about what you could have built if you didn't go through 10 vehicles. I understand your point of fun, but I would much rather be able to go out next weekend and play some more than thrash my rig to a pulp and this weekend and not.

It's a combination of 2, 3, and 4 that brought on my "not to bright" comment. I have known people like you are describing and still do, but they don't get to run trails with me anymore. I got tired of missing out of trails because their junk was broke half way through. I hope that when you decide to take Crash up on his offer I'm not there.

Also many of these guys that have been trying to explain why the mounts hanging down are not good have a lot of experience driving difficult trails. Not point the nose and hammer the throttle hard, but technical every little bit helps trails. Every trip is a learning experience on how to make or do something better. Hint, the advanced fab.

Enjoy arguing a point that has been proven inferior so many times.


just becuase i break alot of parts you automaticly aSSume that i dont know how to drive and i just floor it to get over stuff


you are dead wrong and i would love to go wheelin with you so you can eat your words.


"4. Think about what you could have built if you didn't go through 10 vehicles. I understand your point of fun, but I would much rather be able to go out next weekend and play some more than thrash my rig to a pulp and this weekend and not."

think about how much more skill i have now from repairing so many things, if i went out and bought unbreakable parts right off the bat i would not have near the experience i have. i also probably wouldnt know about those parts or how to install those better parts. i didnt have the internet till about 3 yrs ago , i tought every single thing i knew about 4x4 stuff myself. my father was a carpenter and didnt know shit about mechanics so i took it upon myself to go break things and fix them for the expierence. i also just for practice work on my rig at my house in the dark. ive installed a edelbrock 500 carb in the dark, put an oil pan on with a two piece gasket in the dark. and i had lights to use but i didnt use them becuase i wanted the experience of doing it in the dark at home before i had to do it in the dark on the trail


"3. That's great you so quick at changing axles. How many spare housings to you carry on the trail?"

must have missed the part where i stated that i wheel right near my house , i blow somethin up i can leave it there for the night and walk home or drag it home. if i was a couple hundread miles form home i wouldnt destroy my rig unless i had a trailer and a trail rig.


"2 Anyone can break parts. My whole point of working on my junk before hand is so I don't. When I go out on trails I want to drive and don't want to sit around fixing or waiting for someone to fix their junk. It is really annoying when your trying to bust through trails and a throttle jockey that is under built for their style is breaking every 20'. I'm pretty forgiving with new people, but ones that continue to be that way find themselves not invited anymore. Almost everyone has been under built at one point or another, but driving accordingly is the key."

thats terrific that you never break , i congradulate you. all those times that i broke, I WAS BY MYSELF . everyone around here that owns a big 4x4 drives down gravel roads then go through some mud puddles and thats thier 4 wheelin. i live in a small town with not many other real wheelers and the only thing i can do (more then just weekends, somtimes ill go wheelin 5 times a week) is go to the local spot by myself or somone in the passenger seat so no one is waiting for me

if i was to go on a club run or a group of people on a trail far from home i wouldnt be inconsiderate and break my junk.

not everyone goes with 5 rigs and goes on a single lane trail where you have to wait , im glad you do and just figured everyone else does exactley what you do and use that to compare to me and my intelligence level


have you read the rules of naxja? i did last night
 
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xjnation said:
Driving it like you stole it leads to many broke parts and less fun for everyone you ar with. I have driven some of the hardest trails in the country, was in MOAB with Lincoln e few years ago...Johnson valley a few times and trails in AZ and NM most rated 4.0 or above.

X20

Like Lincoln said most of us actually like taking the rig through tough trails without trashing crap...and drivers like you who dont wish to learn usually are left behind we are tired of dealing with the broken junk on the trail. Many of the trail throttle will only get you into trouble, will get you stuck and broke never over. The line to get through might only be several inches one way or the other between making the obstacle or taking a winch.....the pic of you flexed out that trail would rate about a 2.5 on the 5.0 scale



thats terrific i hope i see you on the trail any where, you are extremely narrow minded and assume crap just like your buddy there. i could wheel cirlces around you , you wanna go out and assume i cant wheel im gonna assume i can wheel circles around you. i was wheelin before i even had my license at the age of 15 in the creek near my house. dont sit on the internet and try to tell me how to wheel , i know how to wheel and probably just as damn good as you if not better. you saw about 50 feet of trail in the picture, thats right near my house im so sorry i dont have 5 star trail right outside.


where do you live? whens the next big wheelin even youre going to? ill be more then happy to come shut you up and wheel circles around you.


thanks for putting up the pic jeepfreak im glad theres somone here that doesnt have to lower themselves to remark on my intelligence or personaly attack me
 
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CRASH said:
You seem to really like the TNT kit, but it has problems of it's own, namely, it's a radius arm design, which unloads on steep climbs. I built a radius arm design 7 years ago, scrapped it for a three link on the new rig. Just FYI.

CRASH

P.S. I see now that we need to get you out on some REAL trails so you can see just how badly you can get hung when the rocks get deep.

P.S.S. What a coincidence, I also live in a town with no stoplights. Welcome to the redneck club.


actualy i dont care for kits that you buy, i build everything myself. i just havnt seen any other kit that mounts the control arms inboarded above the frame rails, so i used that to compare to.
 
jrsxj98 said:
Your so up on NAXJA why dont you payup or take you petty insults to JU.



my petty insults? i never once went to a personal level or called anyone any names what so ever UNTILL it was done to me and im pretty sure one of the mods has noticed that, try reading everything that has been directed to me and not being so narrow minded to "noobs" . when i get the money i will "pay up" , im unemployed at the moment so i dont consider it a priority right now. youre obviously too cool to read everything, jump on the bandwagon .
 
88rockxj said:
thats terrific i hope i see you on the trail any where, you are extremely narrow minded and assume crap just like your buddy there. i could wheel cirlces around you , you wanna go out and assume i cant wheel im gonna assume i can wheel circles around you. i was wheelin before i even had my license at the age of 15 in the creek near my house. dont sit on the internet and try to tell me how to wheel , i know how to wheel and probably just as damn good as you if not better. you saw about 50 feet of trail in the picture, thats right near my house im so sorry i dont have 5 star trail right outside.


where do you live? whens the next big wheelin even youre going to? ill be more then happy to come shut you up and wheel circles around you.


thanks for putting up the pic jeepfreak im glad theres somone here that doesnt have to lower themselves to remark on my intelligence or personaly attack me


Hey I was just quoting your own words:

then bought a 95 xj lifted it 3 inches built a snorkel ,wheeled it pretty good , snapped a front axle on 31s and destroyed my upper control arm. then i tore off my doors and hatch built an exo put 33s on it and rolled it once. then forgot i took my snorkel off and went through some water at high rpms and blew two rods through my oil pan and snapped my cam shaft clean in half.

during that time i got an 88 xj lifted it abut 4 inches put 33s on it and blew 3 sets of spider gears, 2 r&p , 2 front u joints, numerous drive line u joints and even the steering coloumn and 2 radiators and 1 np231 case cracked completely in half that blew goin down the road at 45 mph

bought a toyota. put cross over, dual transfer cases , 38.5 boggers , rear springs up front with new drop cross member and xj leafs in the back and a flat bed. wheeled that harder then any of the xj's , blew a cross pin in the rear 3rd, two birfields, and snapped the bolts for the drive line a few times. welded frt and rear with a flat belly skid and my tranny tunnel gutted to move my cases up. blew a rod bearing and now its nothing but the frame

and yes i LOVE the rocks the most. havnt had much experience in an xj on the rocks becuase i havnt had a very modified xj yet.

just sounds like you have a lot less fun then i do, my vehicles and my money so ill beat on them as hard as i want to.

i also have twice the knowledge i would of if i hadnt broken and fixed so many things so many times, i can drop a rear axle by myself with no power tools using bottle jacks in under 45 minutes flat in the gravel. i could install a d30 on an xj with my eyes closed. id really appreciate it if you quit commenting on me in a personal leve

from all your posts it appears to not only me but others you would rather use the skinny pedal

I have always found it easier to learn from others mistakes than my own.

The next event Im going to will be PUT UP OR SHUT UP put on by WE rockThe same guys who put on the Cal Rocs events.

I will be judging the event and there will be time after to play on the competition obstacles.

Congress Arizona January 6, 7, 8,.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=412605&highlight=PUT+UP+OR+SHUT+UP

not much about the event yet
 
xjnation said:
Hey I was just quoting your own words:













from all your posts it appears to not only me but others you would rather use the skinny pedal

I have always found it easier to learn from others mistakes than my own.

The next event Im going to will be PUT UP OR SHUT UP put on by WE rockThe same guys who put on the Cal Rocs events.

I will be judging the event and there will be time after to play on the competition obstacles.

Congress Arizona January 6, 7, 8,.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=412605&highlight=PUT+UP+OR+SHUT+UP

not much about the event yet


did you not notice that i didnt have anyone around to learn from thier mistakes or did you just totaly miss the part where i live in a small town and wheel by myself , i also didnt get the internet till about 3 yrs ago and havnt had it for the past year. i had no other choice but to learn from my own mistakes and i have. i havnt had experience IN AN XJ in the rocks, you think i had 38.5 boggers with dual cases and cross over sterring on a toyota with a flatbed and just went down some dirt roads? just busted all those parts on dirt roads flooring it right? you assume way too much for the very little i have posted , just becuase you have many years of experience and are probably a very good wheeler dont mean you should go around assuming things like that about people you have read very little about.


edit: i thought your avatar looked familiar, youre northernazxj on pirate, you dont come off on pirate like you do here. ive actualy talked to you on in threads on pirate before and have respect for you there. what things can change simply being on a diff site
 
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88rockxj said:
did you not notice that i didnt have anyone around to learn from thier mistakes or did you just totaly miss the part where i live in a small town and wheel by myself. i had no other choice but to learn from my own mistakes and i have. i havnt had experience IN AN XJ in the rocks, you think i had 38.5 boggers with dual cases and cross over sterring on a toyota with a flatbed and just went down some dirt roads? just busted all those parts on dirt roads flooring it right? you assume way too much for the very little i have posted , just becuase you have many years of experience and are probably a very good wheeler dont mean you should go around assuming things like that about people you have read very little about.


I learned most of what I know from this site and PBB.....NOT from others while on the trail.........So I will see you there on the 6, 7, 8th right?

And for your info I assumed you broke while on a trail..not a dirt road

So who are you over there?
 
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xjnation said:
I learned most of what I know from this site and PBB.....NOT from others while on the trail.........So I will see you there on the 6, 7, 8th right?



i dont learn from others while on the trail either i learned on the trail bymyself not causing problems for anyone else , and more then half of all i know about 4x4 in general has come from endless hrs reading pirate. i used to have an office job with a computer and spent most my time on there while baby sitting the office. besides that i learned everything from my own mistakes which gave me real world experience and i am mad at myself for some things i have done with vehciles but over all im extremely glad ive broken so many things and had to fix them in a bad situation. im now more prepaired for on the trail events so that i dont break and hold people up. ive done it all so i know what not to do and how hard i can push parts on my vehicles. i bought that information through parts and putting them on.


and no i live in northern cali so i wont be there but i CANT wait to get out to az and hit up some of the hardest trails in the country.
 
88rockxj said:
i dont learn from others while on the trail either, and more then half of all i know about 4x4 in general has come from endless hrs reading pirate. i used to have an office job with a computer and spent most my time on there while baby sitting the office. besides that i learned everything from my own mistakes which gave me real world experience and i am mad at myself for some things i have done with vehciles but over all im extremely glad ive broken so many things and had to fix them in a bad situation. im now more prepaired for on the trail events so that i dont break and hold people up. ive done it all so i know what not to do and how hard i can push parts on my vehicles. i bought that information through parts and putting them on.


and no i live in northern cali so i wont be there but i CANT wait to get out to az and hit up some of the hardest trails in the country.

So what happened to anywhere anytime? :dunno:

Now back to the subject.....anyone else have any input on the frame pocket idea?
 
xjnation said:
So what happened to anywhere anytime? :dunno:

Now back to the subject.....anyone else have any input on the frame pocket idea?



"where do you live? whens the next big wheelin even youre going to? ill be more then happy to come shut you up and wheel circles around you."


so that translates into any time any where huh? i said i would wheel any where , that didnt mean i was gonna spend a grand or two driving from cali to az to shut some guy on the internet up. if i ever get the chance to go to az or you come to cali , ill wheel with you "anywhere" and im damn sure youll be surprised at my abilitys.

and yea should get back to the actual tech, this has ended up me digging myself a whole deeper and deeper with all of you.

edit: id like to apologize for carrying on in a non technical way for so long and for any insults or personal attacks that i may have made towards others.
 
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88rockxj said:
"where do you live? whens the next big wheelin even youre going to? ill be more then happy to come shut you up and wheel circles around you."


so that translates into any time any where huh? i said i would wheel any where , that didnt mean i was gonna spend a grand or two driving from cali to az to shut some guy on the internet up. if i ever get the chance to go to az or you come to cali , ill wheel with you "anywhere" and im damn sure youll be surprised at my abilitys.

and yea should get back to the actual tech, this has ended up me digging myself a whole deeper and deeper with all of you.

edit: id like to apologize for carrying on in a non technical way for so long and for any insults or personal attacks that i may have made towards others.

no offence taken by me or the others Im sure....Hell its the internet.....

did you put a flat belly pan in yout yota...and raise the TCk and trannys up too? why did you do that?
 
have you seen a stock toyota cross member?


its hangs down probably 3 times as much as the stock xj one , it was almost flat it actualy hung down about an inch past the frame. it was also free as i made it out of what i had laying around. 3/4" sched 40 about 4 inches apart tied together 3 places with some 3/8" flat stock. it bent a lil and wasnt the best but like i said it was free and much better then the stock one.


my cross member on my xj is flush with the frame , its made out of 2x2 square 1/4" with the bushings at each side of the frame instead of in the center under the tranny.
 
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