pocketing frame for long arms...any thoughts?

[88rockxj]

It's funny, we all seem to have equal difficulty in deciphering what you mean.....curious.

In any case, I really don't think you have been in the kind of situation where having a ramp mounted to the bottom of the frame has hindered you. If you had, it would be perfectly clear to you why you want ZERO obstruction to sliding on the frame/control arm mount/control arm. Sometimes the differnce in making a given obstacle and taking the strap is about 50lbs of thrust. A 9/16" bolt head with 3000 lbs resting on it can easily stop forward progress in low traction situations.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong and you're a fabrication genius and rockcrawling champ who is just misunderstood. :dunno:

CRASH

and you wont get perfectly clear frame unless you mount your arms inboarded like the tnt kit, like i already said master fabricator. pocketing your arms only move the bolt and nut up a couple inches, not worth it imo.


pic sent


those are some pretty gay ramps that are not angled with a the control arm. but what ever stick your arms up inside your frame rails and waste all the time you guys want , in those pics the rocks wouldnt hit the control arm if they were pocketed right? they some how just magicly miss the control arm when it exits the frame right?

 

[88rockxj]

damn you sure are fast, thanks for putting up the pic. as the pic shows if the bracket is built right it will have the same clearance as the arm exiting the pocket in the frame.

 

[rockwerks]

Here's his pic...

well the only problem with the pic is the triangle is too small to actually carry the rod end or bolt even. must be atleast 35% bigger to even work....also where is the pic of your rig? not a pic of someone elses junk

 

[88rockxj]

gimme a few days , dont have a camera but might be able to use my brothers or cousins. and yes my bracket is much bigger but that was just somthin a i drew up real quick. and it depends on what type of end you use on your link that determines what size of bracket you need. i used xj rear leaf spring main big bushings on the frame side of my long arms. my setup isnt the ideal one to use as an example for what im talking about, one with heim or smaller type bushing that allows the ramp to be even with the arm, or atleast close. my rear springs are inboarded also so i have "ramps" for both

edit; i built mine while unemployed and i have less then a 100$ into my frt and rear susp so far (shocks and coil springs not included, just hard parts and my rear leafs) so like i said my setup isnt the ideal example to use for what i was trying to explain. mine will probably be disregarded as crap to most

 

[rockwerks]

gimme a few days , dont have a camera but might be able to use my brothers or cousins. and yes my bracket is much bigger but that was just somthin a i drew up real quick. and it depends on what type of end you use on your link that determines what size of bracket you need. i used xj rear leaf spring main big bushings on the frame side of my long arms. my setup isnt the ideal one to use as an example for what im talking about, one with heim or smaller type bushing that allows the ramp to be even with the arm, or atleast close. my rear springs are inboarded also so i have "ramps" for both

edit; i built mine while unemployed and i have less then a 100$ into my frt and rear susp so far (shocks and coil springs not included, just hard parts and my rear leafs) so like i said my setup isnt the ideal example to use for what i was trying to explain. mine will probably be disregarded as crap to most

npt true we all like different stuff and Ideas........what is crap is your notion that 3" of ground clearance inthe midleof the rig does not matter :wave:

 

[CRASH]

those are some pretty gay ramps that are not angled with a the control arm. but what ever stick your arms up inside your frame rails and waste all the time you guys want , in those pics the rocks wouldnt hit the control arm if they were pocketed right? they some how just magicly miss the control arm when it exits the frame right?

I never said it was ideal, just that it is BETTER to have no bracket on the frame.

Besides, everyone knows that leaf springs are the ideal solution to any front suspension problem.

 

[CRASH]

gimme a few days , dont have a camera but might be able to use my brothers or cousins. and yes my bracket is much bigger but that was just somthin a i drew up real quick. and it depends on what type of end you use on your link that determines what size of bracket you need. i used xj rear leaf spring main big bushings on the frame side of my long arms. my setup isnt the ideal one to use as an example for what im talking about, one with heim or smaller type bushing that allows the ramp to be even with the arm, or atleast close. my rear springs are inboarded also so i have "ramps" for both

edit; i built mine while unemployed and i have less then a 100$ into my frt and rear susp so far (shocks and coil springs not included, just hard parts and my rear leafs) so like i said my setup isnt the ideal example to use for what i was trying to explain. mine will probably be disregarded as crap to most

Just curious, and this is meant as an honest question, how much seat time do you have in a 4wd rig? What trails have you done?

I'm trying to determine what kind of wheeling you've done in the past because your responses on various threads indicate that you may not have played in deep rocks very often........

Help me, help you.

 

[Kaczman]

I believe this is what 88rock is referring to:

The problem is that the mount is still below the frame. Why lift the rig 2" is you have a dangling 2" bracket that will cause you to get hung up?

Here's me stopped because of the mount. Even with my wicked fast reflexes, Jes snapped a pic before I could back out...

Yes, the "ramp" does help. But eventually, even the smallest protrusion will catch you. Maybe someday I'll get around to fixing it.

-Jon

 

[Lincoln]

Even with my wicked fast reflexes, Jes snapped a pic before I could back out...
-Jon

My grandma has quicker reflexes than you do. Besides if you would have throttled it you would have gone right over.

Ramps are for jumping. :lecture:

 

[88rockxj]

Just curious, and this is meant as an honest question, how much seat time do you have in a 4wd rig? What trails have you done?

I'm trying to determine what kind of wheeling you've done in the past because your responses on various threads indicate that you may not have played in deep rocks very often........

Help me, help you.

well ive owned over 10 vehicles and im 22, not one of them has been a car. ive owned 3 jeeps , my first jeep i bought before i even had a license at age 15 which was an 87 xj, wheeled it stock excessivley hard untill i blew the cps(had no clue what that was at the time and could not figure it out, was 16 and didnt have too much knowledge) so i stripped it to put a v8 in and lifted it 5 inches but had to move out and never finished it. then bought a 95 xj lifted it 3 inches built a snorkel ,wheeled it pretty good , snapped a front axle on 31s and destroyed my upper control arm. then i tore off my doors and hatch built an exo put 33s on it and rolled it once. then forgot i took my snorkel off and went through some water at high rpms and blew two rods through my oil pan and snapped my cam shaft clean in half. so once again stripped it was putting a 350 in it with rockwells. during that time i got an 88 xj lifted it abut 4 inches put 33s on it and blew 3 sets of spider gears, 2 r&p , 2 front u joints, numerous drive line u joints and even the steering coloumn and 2 radiators and 1 np231 case cracked completely in half that blew goin down the road at 45 mph. parked that and didnt have enough money to finish my 95 so i sold the rockwells and bought a toyota. put cross over, dual transfer cases , 38.5 boggers , rear springs up front with new drop cross member and xj leafs in the back and a flat bed. wheeled that harder then any of the xj's , blew a cross pin in the rear 3rd, two birfields, and snapped the bolts for the drive line a few times. welded frt and rear with a flat belly skid and my tranny tunnel gutted to move my cases up. blew a rod bearing and now its nothing but the frame with a chsbc 350 with dual trannys sitting next to it waiting for some rockwells and a tube bender. and while thats slowly happening im building the 88, inboarded the rear springs built my own front long arm front and cross member , picking up a 14 bolt for the rear sunday.

i live in a town where theres no stop lights and the closest town only has two stop lights, so i did almost all of my wheelin local and yes i LOVE the rocks the most. havnt had much experience in an xj on the rocks becuase i havnt had a very modified xj yet. that being said i made it down to borrega near san diego for the socal xj club annual get together, i think it was 2003 or 02.

im by no means a great wheeler and i dont have 20 yrs of experience but i do what i can with what i have and just try to have fun. theres my 4wheelin life history for you, sorry for the shitty typing i type with two fingers as you know.

heres my destroyed control arm

http://tellico.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/944292-uca.jpg

heres my exo that never got finished

http://tellico.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/1122788-j1.jpg

 

[88rockxj]

I believe this is what 88rock is referring to:

The problem is that the mount is still below the frame. Why lift the rig 2" is you have a dangling 2" bracket that will cause you to get hung up?

Here's me stopped because of the mount. Even with my wicked fast reflexes, Jes snapped a pic before I could back out...

Yes, the "ramp" does help. But eventually, even the smallest protrusion will catch you. Maybe someday I'll get around to fixing it.

-Jon

yep pretty much what i mean

 

[Mr.OverKill]

well ive owned over 10 vehicles and im 22, not one of them has been a car. ive owned 3 jeeps , my first jeep i bought before i even had a license at age 15 which was an 87 xj, wheeled it stock excessivley hard untill i blew the cps(had no clue what that was at the time and could not figure it out, was 16 and didnt have too much knowledge) so i stripped it to put a v8 in and lifted it 5 inches but had to move out and never finished it. then bought a 95 xj lifted it 3 inches built a snorkel ,wheeled it pretty good , snapped a front axle on 31s and destroyed my upper control arm........

the way this starts out makes me really want to have you test my jeep for me when i get it finished, sounds like if it might break you will make it break. test driver for hire???:wow:

 

[88rockxj]

the way this starts out makes me really want to have you test my jeep for me when i get it finished, sounds like if it might break you will make it break. test driver for hire???:wow:

i have a very bad habbit of destorying things, i like seeing how far i can push things.


you should see my 2000 yamaha big bear atv, i have apicture of my rim that the center ripped out of doing fishtails at about 40 mph. my tire rolled passed me , i stopped and started laughing and looked to see all of my lug nuts and the center of my rim still attached to my 4wheeler. if anyone wants to host the pic ill email it . ive removed and installed d30s and d35s under xjs atleast 8 times

 

[Lincoln]

i have a very bad habbit of destorying things...

It just sounds like your not to bright to me.

 

[Weasel]

I think the pockets are a good idea, while an angled brace would work better then just a mount sticking down, I think the benifts of the pockets are better.

Basicly if you have a smooth frame rails the rocks can freely slide over the rail, no magor changes in shape to slow momentum or catch on. While the ramp design helps it still requires more momentum to lift the vehicle on the rock while not stopping, bad for slow speed crawls. True with the pocket design the arm will hit instead but when the arm hits is can move, and the body of the vehicle doesn't have to be raised. Also the issues with backing up are a concern.

 

[88rockxj]

It just sounds like your not to bright to me.

just sounds like you have a lot less fun then i do, my vehicles and my money so ill beat on them as hard as i want to.



i also have twice the knowledge i would of if i hadnt broken and fixed so many things so many times, i can drop a rear axle by myself with no power tools using bottle jacks in under 45 minutes flat in the gravel. i could install a d30 on an xj with my eyes closed. id really appreciate it if you quit commenting on me in a personal level.

 

[XJEEPER]

Remind me to pick you for my team for the next "break yer rig and fix it fast" contest......you can't wander into the street and expect to not get run over, so I suggest more armor if you're going to continue driving this line.

 

[88rockxj]

Remind me to pick you for my team for the next "break yer rig and fix it fast" contest......you can't wander into the street and expect to not get run over, so I suggest more armor if you're going to continue driving this line.

you lost me on the last part there, more armor? i just need stronger parts but dont have the money lol

 

[TrailHunter]

I believe this is what 88rock is referring to:

The problem is that the mount is still below the frame. Why lift the rig 2" is you have a dangling 2" bracket that will cause you to get hung up?

Here's me stopped because of the mount. Even with my wicked fast reflexes, Jes snapped a pic before I could back out...

Yes, the "ramp" does help. But eventually, even the smallest protrusion will catch you. Maybe someday I'll get around to fixing it.

-Jon

So you're saying it's the ramp that stopped him here. What if he had the link mount pocketed? He'd be stuck on his control arm instead. I can totally understand what 88rock is saying and I think he's correct when talking about the amount of performance gained for the amount off effort to build it. Is the pocket better? Maybe a little and what 88rock is trying to say is, you can get near the same performance (if not the same) with much less effort.

 

[JeepFreak21]

if anyone wants to host the pic ill email it

:wave: