Now we fire people for defending themselves?

[kastein]

All this "could have sued" crap is pure bull, and is justification for companies (and people) having absolutely no balls.

I think I'll stay at home and never drive anywhere ever again, or eat anything except what is good for me, because otherwise I might get sick or run into some idiot driving on the wrong side of the street, who will then sue me into oblivion.

IT COULD HAPPEN! DON'T LAUGH! :shiver:

Last time I checked, after you've been swung at (assault and battery) self defense usually involves kicking their ass so they stop.

PALM BAY, Fla. -- A Walmart greeter who was shown on video getting punched by a customer has been fired.Ed Bauman, 69, said the act of defending himself cost him his job.Bauman went into Walmart hoping to get back to work for the first time since police said he was punched by a customer. Instead, Bauman said he was fired. His termination notice called the incident an act of "gross misconduct" and accused Bauman of fighting with a customer."They told me I did a good job of defending myself," said Bauman. "Then they turned around and fired me. I guess they just wanted me to stand there and get beaten."On Dec. 26, a customer in red shorts set off an alarm while leaving the store. Bauman followed the man to get his license number. The man got angry and took Bauman's clipboard. Bauman said he tried to get it back and leaned into the customer who took a swing. Bauman said he swung back in order to defend himself.Police said Bauman acted within his rights and was not charged. The customer was charged with a felony. Video of the punch also drew a lot of attention on WESH and WESH.com.

The police say he was defending himself, and within his rights. Wal-Mart says so too, but fires him. Why exactly is this not self defense again? Self defense can include offense, it doesn't require you to stand there blocking punches till the guy gets bored/tired.

 

[cracked-butt]

personaly i think Ed Bauman needs to talk to a good lawyer & sue the h3ll out of wal-mart for wrongful termination for said incident.

considering the COPS & his own SUPERVIZERS told him he did a good job DEFENDING himself!!!
if it's in "black-n-white" or just a verbal "rule" imposed by a company... there are loop-holes, believe it!

 

[RichP]

personaly i think Ed Bauman needs to talk to a good lawyer & sue the h3ll out of wal-mart for wrongful termination for said incident.

considering the COPS & his own SUPERVIZERS told him he did a good job DEFENDING himself!!!
if it's in "black-n-white" or just a verbal "rule" imposed by a company... there are loop-holes, believe it!

Yup, might get a nice condo out of it in Florida somewhere...

 

[Coastie]

Coastie, do you read what your responding to. I have no problem with stopping criminals. I am glad he was brought to justice. However, the guy was stupid for rushing the thief over a clipboard. This time it was a punch in the face. It very well could've been a knife to the gut.

Yes I get what you're saying; where we differ is the act of stealing a clipboard isn't that big to you but someone forcing themselves on me and taking my property is a bigger deal to me.

How was the old man supposed to know all he wanted was the clipboard? In a moment like that things can look different than they are.

 

[Darky]

personaly i think Ed Bauman needs to talk to a good lawyer & sue the h3ll out of wal-mart for wrongful termination for said incident.

considering the COPS & his own SUPERVIZERS told him he did a good job DEFENDING himself!!!
if it's in "black-n-white" or just a verbal "rule" imposed by a company... there are loop-holes, believe it!

I agree whole heartedly.

Yes I get what you're saying; where we differ is the act of stealing a clipboard isn't that big to you but someone forcing themselves on me and taking my property is a bigger deal to me.

How was the old man supposed to know all he wanted was the clipboard? In a moment like that things can look different than they are.

Exactly, how do you know all he wants is the clipboard? If it were my property and it wasn't at work, things would be different, but I'm not gonna risk the guy pulling a gun on me over a Wal-Mart clipboard.

Bauman said he tried to get it back and leaned into the customer who took a swing.

This quote right here could cause him problems. You can be guaranteed he didn't approach with a smile on his face, then leaned in to grab his clipboard back and that's when the guy took a swing. The guy likely could claim he swung in self defense.

I side with the guy that you stand up to "thugs", but different rules apply when you're at work. You follow the rules of your company.

 

[kujito]

So, if I'm at your place of work, obviously (blatantly) up to no good, aggressively rush you and snatch whatever is in your hand; you're just gonna take it and not react?

I don't care if it's a Bic ball point pen from the company supply closet; come at me like that and we're fighting. At that point, I'm in self-defense mode. Most thought goes away and it's almost all REACTION.

 

[Darky]

No, but I'm also going to then rush you to get it back. The thief grabbed the guy's clipboard outside and then ran back in. The old guy then ran in after him and jumped him for his clipboard. If you watch the video, it wasn't just a matter of the thief running up and socking the greeter, the greeter ran up to the thief and then got socked. Company policy is usually pretty clear in a situation like that. Self defense could apply if the guy had reacted to the thief rushing him originally, but not when he then pursued the customer back into the store.

I just watched the video again, and the guy was actually skipping at Bauman when he stole his clipboard...

I just keep walking when the alarms go off. It's like the COSTCO folks wanting to see my receipt I just walk by.

I hear this a lot from people, seems to be a common sentiment regarding consenting to have your stuff checked. Wonder if anyone thought, "Hm, maybe this guy was doing the same...maybe he didn't steal anything and just didn't want to stop and get checked." I just watched the video again, and the guy was actually skipping at Bauman when he stole his clipboard...just a thought, maybe he was just plannin on screwing around with the guy and had no intention of taking a swing at him, until he got rushed and shoulder tackled into the security sensors.

 

[Coastie]

he was just plannin on screwing around with the guy.

In most people's world if someone comes at you like he did most people are going to think the worst and react to defend themselves. Besides the kid still deserved to knocked down just for screwing with the guy.

 

[Darky]

Yeah, he did deserve to get knocked down, but have you watched the video? He was literally skipping, like a little girl. Looking at it from a defense attorney's perspective and how he'd spin it for the jury, I'd say it would be hard to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that the guy's intentions were clearly to inflict harm on Bauman. Bauman came at him with some force and slammed him into the security thing, and the guy still didn't swing right away.

 

[hubs97xj]

This is WalMart- only the bottom line matters. The Loss Prevention policies don't include violence- it's not worth getting injured for what WalMart pays employees, and it's not worth risking lawsuits for WalMart Inc- at the point a confrontation turns violent, WalMart would rather let that package of socks walk out the door. No need to read anything else into it. It's not about being unable to defend yourself, or the new political atmosphere, or whatever else. This is the same old Wal Mart that's been around for years.

 

[Darky]

This is WalMart- only the bottom line matters. The Loss Prevention policies don't include violence- it's not worth getting injured for what WalMart pays employees, and it's not worth risking lawsuits for WalMart Inc- at the point a confrontation turns violent, WalMart would rather let that package of socks walk out the door. No need to read anything else into it. It's not about being unable to defend yourself, or the new political atmosphere, or whatever else. This is the same old Wal Mart that's been around for years.

Same old business that's been around for years. Best Buy, Big 5 Sporting Goods, even when I was a pizza delivery guy for a short time, all told us to let the shoplifter go/give the criminal what they wanted. Why? Like I've been saying, like hubs just said: a $10 pizza/pack of socks/CD/whatever isn't worth an employee getting killed or even injured, whether because they actually care or because they don't want to get sued.

 

[kastein]

Huh.

Makes me wonder why I abide by the law and buy things at stores. I guess I could just walk out with them while looking menacing.

Yes, I understand the logic, but it really pisses me off that stuff like this makes sense.

 

[Darky]

I thought it was hilarious when I worked retail. I was tellin people that pretty much if you want to get a free whatever, come in, pick it up, and walk out. If you can get out the door without myself or one of the other managers stopping you, you were home free. Actually had a kid come in one night, try on a pair of shoes, stuff his old ratty shoes in the box and put it back on the shelf. I found the box, so I wandered over towards him, saw that he had the new shoes on and asked him how the shoes were feeling. He said great, just trying em out. So I walked over towards the middle of the store and saw him start to make his way towards the front of the store so I moved and blocked his escape. He saw me and went the other way. Put on a hoody from the rack and started towards the door again. I tried calling the store manager over to me, but he was with a customer and didn't hear me. I took two steps away from the door and the kid bolted out. Nothin we could do at that point.

And yes, the logic sucks, but it keeps overeager store employees from getting hurt. Mind you, some places do employ Loss Prevention types who are qualified and allowed to take a shoplifter down. At Best Buy, I worked in the computer department. A crackhead managed to stroll into the laptop "aisle" (created by two 3-4' high islands), snatch a laptop of the shelf, removing the lock with ease - even though it took us 5-10 minutes with the keys to unlock it, and then wrestle it out of the laptop), stuff it under his shirt and try to walk out. Luckily our LP guy was a former Marine and noticed a strange rectangular bulge under this guy's shirt. He tried to stop the guy, but the guy tried to bolt. So he tackles this crack head, and gets the attention of one of the managers who happened to be nearby and a former weightlifter in the Army. This guy weighed about 300 lbs with forearms so big he couldn't roll his shirtsleeves up over them. He jumps on, wrestling the crackhead, and an off-duty cop who happened to be in line sees the commotion and jumps in too. And still the crackhead is fighting and growling, pushing himself up 3-4 inches off the ground with 700 lbs of man trying to hold him down. The off-duty cop called in to the department and they sent a cruiser down to pick the guy up.

 

[jinxfactory]

This is complete BS. You're doing your job and are forced to defend yourself in the course of said job, and Walmart fires you?


http://www.wesh.com/news/22190479/detail.html

It's always the same thing. I willingly broke the law, got caught, tried to intimidate you, then when all else fails use the racial card. POS!:twak:

 

[Darky]

Who's to say he didn't say something?

 

[cracked-butt]

a few things need said here to the OP.
1; the thief DID get cought.
2; it was the greeter/checker that got the thief cought.
3; the thief is bein brought to justice for his crime.
4; the greeter SHOULDN'T have been fired, because
A; for his actions the kid was cought.
B; even IF the kid hadn't come back in & "fought" with him, he had the kids license number.

 

[Darky]

a few things need said here to the OP.
1; the thief DID get cought.
2; it was the greeter/checker that got the thief cought.
3; the thief is bein brought to justice for his crime.
4; the greeter SHOULDN'T have been fired, because
A; for his actions the kid was cought.
B; even IF the kid hadn't come back in & "fought" with him, he had the kids license number.

I'm pretty sure the OP agrees with you...

 

[REVROK]

Having been a retail manager I see both sides. Y'see, the corporations also harp on "shrink" and "loss control" to the point where they create poisonous environments at times. I remember going outside of policy... just a bit... in order to stop a thief. My store was in the Mission District in San Francisco in the 80's... not a good time and place to push a fight, but I was being pushed on numbers. I could easily have been in a fight. Somehow I always managed to avoid it. Must be my charm!

 

[Darky]

Having been a retail manager I see both sides. Y'see, the corporations also harp on "shrink" and "loss control" to the point where they create poisonous environments at times. I remember going outside of policy... just a bit... in order to stop a thief. My store was in the Mission District in San Francisco in the 80's... not a good time and place to push a fight, but I was being pushed on numbers. I could easily have been in a fight. Somehow I always managed to avoid it. Must be my charm!

Yep. They'd always tell us to approach suspicious customers and talk to them, bug em until they go away.

 

[joe_peters]

The greeter violated a store policy, he got fired.

You are a bank teller, an armed robber demands money, you take his gun away and chase him out the door--you are going to get fired too as most banks have a "surrender the cash" policy.

It isn't right, but the employer acted in accord with the policies of the corporation.

Now, lets hope that a business man in that town hires that wonderful man in a good paying job.

Growing up our family had restaurants and one service station. Mom carried a .38 S&W and Dad a .45 ACP 1911A1. When I had to open the station early or close it late I would take my Dad's M1 carbine with me. Our business policy was shoot first, live to tell the story.